Swapping Ferrari for Phantom - Cost of Ownership Difference?
Discussion
I currently have a Rosso Corsa / Creme, Ferrari F430 Spider with Manual Transmission (one of the last Ferrari's to be made with a manual gearbox) - These cars are rapidly appreciating and currently achieving around £120k. I don't use it often due to poor weather here in the UK and if I'm honest, although I'm only 45 years old, I don't really drive fast anymore, now preferring comfort over speed.
I'm considering selling the Ferrari and putting the funds towards a used Phantom as I feel I would get more use and pleasure from this car, plus I don't have to worry about getting caught in the rain - Crazy as it sounds, something I currently do worry about whenever driving the Ferrari.
So my question is this..... Are servicing and general parts costs much, much higher with a Phantom than a Ferrari?
Also, values seem to have stayed quite strong on used Phantom's for a while now.... While I know none of us have a crystal ball, does anyone think these prices are set to plummet any time soon?
Finally, any other tips as to what to go for, or what to avoid would be much appreciated.
I'm not too concerned about the cars size, as I never go in multi storey car parks and if going to the supermarket, I always park as far away from anyone else, over two spaces at the opposite end of the car park where nobody else goes.
I will probably be looking to spend around £140k
Many thanks
Allister
I'm considering selling the Ferrari and putting the funds towards a used Phantom as I feel I would get more use and pleasure from this car, plus I don't have to worry about getting caught in the rain - Crazy as it sounds, something I currently do worry about whenever driving the Ferrari.
So my question is this..... Are servicing and general parts costs much, much higher with a Phantom than a Ferrari?
Also, values seem to have stayed quite strong on used Phantom's for a while now.... While I know none of us have a crystal ball, does anyone think these prices are set to plummet any time soon?
Finally, any other tips as to what to go for, or what to avoid would be much appreciated.
I'm not too concerned about the cars size, as I never go in multi storey car parks and if going to the supermarket, I always park as far away from anyone else, over two spaces at the opposite end of the car park where nobody else goes.
I will probably be looking to spend around £140k
Many thanks
Allister
I have a Phantom and 430 Scuderia and I'd say that routine running costs are broadly similar. I'd also say that unexpected costs can be aligned too. My RR is serviced by a main dealer at slightly reduced rates which helps as mine is now over 4 years old.
I'd only buy a used car with impeccable history. Many are run on a shoestring as wedding / private hire cars and are generally ropey. 140k will get you a main dealer car with the slight refresh. I can't see values tanking on these for the best kept cars but the sheds will always be priced accordingly. No one has seen the new Phantom but it is bound to be a lot more expensive than the current one was when new.
As for spec - RR would make anything you want so choose one you like. Most people went for black on cream or what they call triple black (paint/hide/wood) but personally I find that a bit boring and doesn't show the lines of the car very well. The only thing I'd avoid are the individual rear seats if you plan on using it to take people out. Resale on those is tricky too.
One thing to bear in mind is that although the car is still the best way to travel on 4 wheels, the nav and phone is almost last century. My iPhone doesn't work for example. And I know you plan on using it for everyday stuff but don't underestimate how big it is and how much attention you get. I've never had bad attention and am always allowed to park by the door of anywhere we go, but this is definitely not a car for shrinking violets.
I'd only buy a used car with impeccable history. Many are run on a shoestring as wedding / private hire cars and are generally ropey. 140k will get you a main dealer car with the slight refresh. I can't see values tanking on these for the best kept cars but the sheds will always be priced accordingly. No one has seen the new Phantom but it is bound to be a lot more expensive than the current one was when new.
As for spec - RR would make anything you want so choose one you like. Most people went for black on cream or what they call triple black (paint/hide/wood) but personally I find that a bit boring and doesn't show the lines of the car very well. The only thing I'd avoid are the individual rear seats if you plan on using it to take people out. Resale on those is tricky too.
One thing to bear in mind is that although the car is still the best way to travel on 4 wheels, the nav and phone is almost last century. My iPhone doesn't work for example. And I know you plan on using it for everyday stuff but don't underestimate how big it is and how much attention you get. I've never had bad attention and am always allowed to park by the door of anywhere we go, but this is definitely not a car for shrinking violets.
stain said:
I have a Phantom and 430 Scuderia and I'd say that routine running costs are broadly similar. I'd also say that unexpected costs can be aligned too. My RR is serviced by a main dealer at slightly reduced rates which helps as mine is now over 4 years old.
I'd only buy a used car with impeccable history. Many are run on a shoestring as wedding / private hire cars and are generally ropey. 140k will get you a main dealer car with the slight refresh. I can't see values tanking on these for the best kept cars but the sheds will always be priced accordingly. No one has seen the new Phantom but it is bound to be a lot more expensive than the current one was when new.
As for spec - RR would make anything you want so choose one you like. Most people went for black on cream or what they call triple black (paint/hide/wood) but personally I find that a bit boring and doesn't show the lines of the car very well. The only thing I'd avoid are the individual rear seats if you plan on using it to take people out. Resale on those is tricky too.
One thing to bear in mind is that although the car is still the best way to travel on 4 wheels, the nav and phone is almost last century. My iPhone doesn't work for example. And I know you plan on using it for everyday stuff but don't underestimate how big it is and how much attention you get. I've never had bad attention and am always allowed to park by the door of anywhere we go, but this is definitely not a car for shrinking violets.
Thank you for the excellent advice - it's nice to know that running costs will be similar, I'm OK with that and a bit more if necessary..... When you say "140k will get you a main dealer car with the slight refresh" are you referring to a facelift? If so, do you know what model year that happened on and what the slight changes were?I'd only buy a used car with impeccable history. Many are run on a shoestring as wedding / private hire cars and are generally ropey. 140k will get you a main dealer car with the slight refresh. I can't see values tanking on these for the best kept cars but the sheds will always be priced accordingly. No one has seen the new Phantom but it is bound to be a lot more expensive than the current one was when new.
As for spec - RR would make anything you want so choose one you like. Most people went for black on cream or what they call triple black (paint/hide/wood) but personally I find that a bit boring and doesn't show the lines of the car very well. The only thing I'd avoid are the individual rear seats if you plan on using it to take people out. Resale on those is tricky too.
One thing to bear in mind is that although the car is still the best way to travel on 4 wheels, the nav and phone is almost last century. My iPhone doesn't work for example. And I know you plan on using it for everyday stuff but don't underestimate how big it is and how much attention you get. I've never had bad attention and am always allowed to park by the door of anywhere we go, but this is definitely not a car for shrinking violets.
I'm in agreement with you about the black on cream / triple black thing - Also my wife thinks black paint can make it look like your driving someone else's car, so I think a different colour will make it a bit more personal, less chauffeur.
I will definitely try and find one through a main dealer to give me 2 years peace of mind, although for this I'll no doubt pay a premium (has anyone bought Main Dealer Pre-Owned and negotiated more than the standard 2 years warranty?).
Thanks for the interesting tip about the rear seats and also the technology info, I have an old 4.4 Vogue Petrol Range Rover (which I love) and that is similar on tech, so I'm OK with that - I can imagine the car does get quite a lot of attention which I don't mind. My only concern as with the Ferrari is leaving it anywhere, it's really sad to say but there are some people out there who would love to run a key down the side of a car like that - my biggest fear.
Similar too you we've had the 430, then a California, a Phantom DHC and now in a phantom saloon. Great cars we cover a lot of miles every summer in our back and forth to Portugal. We would use it more but others have pointed out its sheer size makes it very difficult to use more. If you are buying from a main dealer series 2 cars seem to be starting around 190/200k but there were vast improvements on the tech front over the series 1 cars, it also has the 8 speed gearbox, however having experienced both my preference is more for the gearbox in the series 1 cars as it doesn't seem to hunt through the gears as much and less cogs give the car more waft ability !
Every car was differently specified when new and very few left the factory at basic list price (around 300k) many optioned cars were 400k+ Our own car was not shy short of 500k so in the used market its important to understand what options the car has. As others have pointed out individual rear seats make them less desirable as it makes the car a 4 seater. Do not get this confused with individual seats with occasional seat which is a great option and was 25k when new, rear theatre was 15k, starlight headlining 8k they are good cars with strong residuals if bought correctly, production is finishing later this year and there will be about 18 months before the new model arrives, this can only be good for residuals, especially for the series 2 cars. The new model will also no doubt be a lot more expensive making this model look like a good buy.
If bought correctly you could be in for some cheap motoring, we are changing our car in May and going back to a DHC which we intend to keep longterm for my wife and I would hope to go into the new model when it arrives.
Every car was differently specified when new and very few left the factory at basic list price (around 300k) many optioned cars were 400k+ Our own car was not shy short of 500k so in the used market its important to understand what options the car has. As others have pointed out individual rear seats make them less desirable as it makes the car a 4 seater. Do not get this confused with individual seats with occasional seat which is a great option and was 25k when new, rear theatre was 15k, starlight headlining 8k they are good cars with strong residuals if bought correctly, production is finishing later this year and there will be about 18 months before the new model arrives, this can only be good for residuals, especially for the series 2 cars. The new model will also no doubt be a lot more expensive making this model look like a good buy.
If bought correctly you could be in for some cheap motoring, we are changing our car in May and going back to a DHC which we intend to keep longterm for my wife and I would hope to go into the new model when it arrives.
Series 1 cars ran till about 09/10. The series 1.5 gained a smoothed off front bumper and smaller radiator grille. They also moved the rear air con controls to the doors to make them easier to reach. New style wheels were fitted too. Apart from that they are the same. The big change came with the series 2 as Dazzasle rightly claims. The front end lost the round lights and gained horizontal LED lights and new bumpers again. Inside there is the later I drive software from Bmw and short cut buttons with the visuals displayed on a larger screen. That's all the good stuff. The changes I don't like are the 8 speed box which hunts around and causes engine braking, and they have tweaked the suspension slightly making it a touch firmer.
When buying a car less than 4 years old from a main dealer you will get the remainder of the service plan which in my case included brakes - even after a few track days! I'm sure you could negotiate some sort of extension as part of the deal. I bought my car from Rybrook but Sunningdale have also looked after me very well.
When buying a car less than 4 years old from a main dealer you will get the remainder of the service plan which in my case included brakes - even after a few track days! I'm sure you could negotiate some sort of extension as part of the deal. I bought my car from Rybrook but Sunningdale have also looked after me very well.
My dealer hasn't seen many keyed cars through the workshop but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen. I'd be more worried about door dings and general scrapes. You have to use approved painters to maintain factory support and these are hugely expensive to paint. There is so much chrome that has to come off and can only be used once.
To beef up what I said earlier - my friend has a 2010 car with 40k miles which had an intermittent misfire. After replacing a loom and some bits and bobs the bill was over 6k. It was covered under warranty though so he was protected. My car hasn't been faultless but not too bad considering. Tyres are a bit expensive at around £550 each as only one make of runflat is used. Other parts are silly cheap and some the opposite. It's a bit of a mixed bag in that regard.
To beef up what I said earlier - my friend has a 2010 car with 40k miles which had an intermittent misfire. After replacing a loom and some bits and bobs the bill was over 6k. It was covered under warranty though so he was protected. My car hasn't been faultless but not too bad considering. Tyres are a bit expensive at around £550 each as only one make of runflat is used. Other parts are silly cheap and some the opposite. It's a bit of a mixed bag in that regard.
Just adding to what stain said the bills for these can be eye watering, our car, still under factory warranty had an intermittent headlamp warning failure display on the dash, on and off the warranty bill for this was over 10k. I'm still not convinced its resolved as we haven't used the car since November.
Thank you stain and dazzalse for taking time out of your day to leave comments - All are greatly appreciated and will hopefully go some way to helping me choose the right car.
I expect maintenance costs on the Phantom will be slightly higher than the Ferrari, although that said, I would hope with an element of German engineering, that the Rolls Royce will be slightly more reliable. (dazzalse I've read you ongoing ownership post with interest - so maybe not!)
I think Main Dealer purchase is definitely the way for me to go and depending upon how the first two years work out, maybe extend the warranty thereafter. I will certainly take into account the options on each car - Do you think any in particular are important / essential?
Many thanks again to you both.
Allister
I expect maintenance costs on the Phantom will be slightly higher than the Ferrari, although that said, I would hope with an element of German engineering, that the Rolls Royce will be slightly more reliable. (dazzalse I've read you ongoing ownership post with interest - so maybe not!)
I think Main Dealer purchase is definitely the way for me to go and depending upon how the first two years work out, maybe extend the warranty thereafter. I will certainly take into account the options on each car - Do you think any in particular are important / essential?
Many thanks again to you both.
Allister
Edited by allister on Friday 11th March 17:15
My 2007 (23K miles) Phantom DHC has been pretty much perfect save for a SatNav and door sensor issue. It tends to sit around on a trickle and then do the odd long journey. I am pretty impressed. If I was buying something in the Phantom line as an only car and looking for value I would likely pick a pre-owned Phantom Coupe. They do not seem to hold their value as well as the DHCs and there are some very good low mileage ones on offer. They also have a more useable boot than the DHC. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the saloon is a bit boxy for my tastes, a bit bigger than the Coupe and I suspect most owners sit in the back.
OLDBENZ said:
My 2007 (23K miles) Phantom DHC has been pretty much perfect save for a SatNav and door sensor issue. It tends to sit around on a trickle and then do the odd long journey. I am pretty impressed. If I was buying something in the Phantom line as an only car and looking for value I would likely pick a pre-owned Phantom Coupe. They do not seem to hold their value as well as the DHCs and there are some very good low mileage ones on offer. They also have a more useable boot than the DHC. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the saloon is a bit boxy for my tastes, a bit bigger than the Coupe and I suspect most owners sit in the back.
I have looked at the Coupe OLDBENZ but I'm just not quite as impressed with it - I do however really like the DHC although it's more than I really wanted to spend. That said, do you think residuals long term will be a lot stronger on the DHC? Also, do you think R.R. will keep producing the Phantom DHC now that the Dawn is coming - Are they likely to keep two convertibles in the range?
Dazzalse - Do you have an opinion on this, I noted that you've had both and you're also looking to get another DHC - For and against between the two?
If I buy a DHC is it likely to become another "sunny day only" car?
And if you could only buy one, which would you go for?
Many thanks to all
Allister
I believe Goodwood has announced that the next Phantom won't be made in coupe or drophead versions - which should be good for residuals of the outgoing model.
Edited to include:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/motoring/102010/...
Edited to include:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/motoring/102010/...
Edited by 9six4 on Saturday 12th March 04:04
allister said:
I have looked at the Coupe OLDBENZ but I'm just not quite as impressed with it - I do however really like the DHC although it's more than I really wanted to spend. That said, do you think residuals long term will be a lot stronger on the DHC?
Also, do you think R.R. will keep producing the Phantom DHC now that the Dawn is coming - Are they likely to keep two convertibles in the range?
Dazzalse - Do you have an opinion on this, I noted that you've had both and you're also looking to get another DHC - For and against between the two?
If I buy a DHC is it likely to become another "sunny day only" car?
And if you could only buy one, which would you go for?
Many thanks to all
Allister
The reason we are getting a DHC is because RR will never produce another car like this, when I was last at the factory I was told that the days of these large convertibles are over and the dawn would be there only convertible, its also widely known in the dealerships that going forward phantom will only be a one car model.Also, do you think R.R. will keep producing the Phantom DHC now that the Dawn is coming - Are they likely to keep two convertibles in the range?
Dazzalse - Do you have an opinion on this, I noted that you've had both and you're also looking to get another DHC - For and against between the two?
If I buy a DHC is it likely to become another "sunny day only" car?
And if you could only buy one, which would you go for?
Many thanks to all
Allister
The reason we changed our DHC last time was because my children are getting older and for the journey we use the car for the boot is too small as we tend to take the car down to portugal for the summer months. The saloon is more practical and of course 5 seats where as the DHC is only 4 (another deciding factor for us as in Portugal there are normally 5 of us. Going forward my intention is too run a DHC and a new model saloon. The last DHC's are currently coming off the production line, although I understand coupe production has already finished. For us the saloon is probably one of the best cars we've owned and I've had a lot of cars, there is something about it they no one else can seem to copy. My understanding is the saloon is going to be a big step forward in terms of price. To give you some idea of residuals our previous DHC is currently for sale with a dealer for exactly the same money we sold t for 3 years ago!
Thanks dazzalse and 9six4, - On that basis it seems that either of these three cars, (standard, coupe or DHC) should hold their value pretty well.
Thank you once again to everyone (inc, stain and oldbenz), your opinions and knowledge have been extremely helpful.
Allister
Thank you once again to everyone (inc, stain and oldbenz), your opinions and knowledge have been extremely helpful.
Allister
Edited by allister on Saturday 12th March 08:37
Although only 'belted-up for two' , there is room in the back of the DHC for a third person - in fact the size of the rear bench seat invites it. I saw P&A Wood had a DHC for sale a while ago with a third inertial reel belt in the standard rear seat - presumably fitted by them -so I am not alone in thinking that. All that said, getting into the rear through the suicide doors involve a bit of contortion for adults and, of course, if you are in the back you need the assistance of an outside person to release you.
All said though, there is something uniquely calming about wafting along (in the dry) with the roof down. I am a big fan.
All said though, there is something uniquely calming about wafting along (in the dry) with the roof down. I am a big fan.
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