Shadow II v. Spirit II
Discussion
Hello PistonHeaders, my very first posting.
I'm seeking advice/insight into the (first time) purchase/running of a late SY2 v. late SZ2 I've trawled the RR&B section of the forum and can find nothing close, so am posting.
Budget - Initial purchase: £25k Remedial work: £5k (figures not cast in stone). Telephone Interview to shortlist. My own viewing. Specialist Examination. Then purchase.
I'm a bit of a spanner wielder and am not afraid of dirt and grease. However, I know my limitations (I'm S2/S3 vintage and there are systems here which need expertise!)
On the one hand I'm really drawn towards a late Shadow II - aesthetics, simpler engineering (in relative terms) as opposed to a Spirit II - aesthetics, updated dash; cross banded veneers, more 'modern' features (and therefore more efficient/reliable or troublesome?) Better Air Con/Heat/Vent, EFI (mechanical early version v. later digital?), ABS, 4 speed box, Active Ride etc ( I don't like the SZ3 airbag steering wheel and the later front seats with the altered squab, the later centre console seems a touch gauche to me; less is more?)
I note from a well known South West London Indy that SY2 servicing is surprisingly reasonable (I've run Jag S. III 4.2 & V12 and Range Rover 3.9) but later SZ Service C (I think it was) is POA I'm not unduly upset by this just curious; is it because the list of areas that might need attention (over and above an SY2) is so vast, it really is a 'It all depends upon where your car is right now in relation to the factory schedules', or 'if you need to ask the price ... '
Well, over to you all
I'm seeking advice/insight into the (first time) purchase/running of a late SY2 v. late SZ2 I've trawled the RR&B section of the forum and can find nothing close, so am posting.
Budget - Initial purchase: £25k Remedial work: £5k (figures not cast in stone). Telephone Interview to shortlist. My own viewing. Specialist Examination. Then purchase.
I'm a bit of a spanner wielder and am not afraid of dirt and grease. However, I know my limitations (I'm S2/S3 vintage and there are systems here which need expertise!)
On the one hand I'm really drawn towards a late Shadow II - aesthetics, simpler engineering (in relative terms) as opposed to a Spirit II - aesthetics, updated dash; cross banded veneers, more 'modern' features (and therefore more efficient/reliable or troublesome?) Better Air Con/Heat/Vent, EFI (mechanical early version v. later digital?), ABS, 4 speed box, Active Ride etc ( I don't like the SZ3 airbag steering wheel and the later front seats with the altered squab, the later centre console seems a touch gauche to me; less is more?)
I note from a well known South West London Indy that SY2 servicing is surprisingly reasonable (I've run Jag S. III 4.2 & V12 and Range Rover 3.9) but later SZ Service C (I think it was) is POA I'm not unduly upset by this just curious; is it because the list of areas that might need attention (over and above an SY2) is so vast, it really is a 'It all depends upon where your car is right now in relation to the factory schedules', or 'if you need to ask the price ... '
Well, over to you all
£25k would easily buy a very reasonable example of both so if you have the space I would suggest this as an option. You'll need to buy carefully but as long as you do you could drive both for a while and sell both, or one, for very little/if any cost. I suggest this because they are so different in every respect.
If you only have space for one you'll need to drive a few of each to get the feel of them. The Shadow II floats over most road imperfections but needs a high level of concentration and experience to keep up good average speeds on twisty roads. It can be done but it requires a lot of forward planning and a very light hand. The Spirit has a wider track and always cornered better than the Shadow but the Spirit II, with active ride control exerts a huge influence making it relaxing to drive and very forgiving of mistakes.
Technically the Spirit is the better car and the Spirit II will have vastly better fuel consumption. The Shadow II however has a presence and character that everyone from little kids to old grannies recognise and love while the SZ is anonymous, plain and boring. I have a few cars and when you fill up at a fuel station, generally, most get some interest but very rarely the SZ. At one time it's sheer size would have made it stand out but now, its not much different to a Mondeo.
I would suggest a better choice would be between a Shadow II and a Bentley Turbo R (or both). Like you, I don't like the airbag steering wheels but the three spoke Turbo R wheel was fantastic. I have both of these car types but in all honesty if I had to select just one as a keeper, it would probably be the Shadow. For all of its defects it was one of the cars to have when I grew up hence its influence upon me and I have similar affection for my other period cars. My later cars, while great, have always seemed to lack character and individuality.
If you only have space for one you'll need to drive a few of each to get the feel of them. The Shadow II floats over most road imperfections but needs a high level of concentration and experience to keep up good average speeds on twisty roads. It can be done but it requires a lot of forward planning and a very light hand. The Spirit has a wider track and always cornered better than the Shadow but the Spirit II, with active ride control exerts a huge influence making it relaxing to drive and very forgiving of mistakes.
Technically the Spirit is the better car and the Spirit II will have vastly better fuel consumption. The Shadow II however has a presence and character that everyone from little kids to old grannies recognise and love while the SZ is anonymous, plain and boring. I have a few cars and when you fill up at a fuel station, generally, most get some interest but very rarely the SZ. At one time it's sheer size would have made it stand out but now, its not much different to a Mondeo.
I would suggest a better choice would be between a Shadow II and a Bentley Turbo R (or both). Like you, I don't like the airbag steering wheels but the three spoke Turbo R wheel was fantastic. I have both of these car types but in all honesty if I had to select just one as a keeper, it would probably be the Shadow. For all of its defects it was one of the cars to have when I grew up hence its influence upon me and I have similar affection for my other period cars. My later cars, while great, have always seemed to lack character and individuality.
I've owned a Shadow 2 for more than 5 years now and have to agree with Byteme.
While the Spirit II will technically be the better car, it doesn't give the sense of occasion that the Shadow will provide (I've driven a friends similar Mulsanne, so can compare them). The Shadow has the typical classic Rolls Royce look, while the Spirit looks a bit like a posh Granada.
Also, Shadows are not that hard to work on yourself, as the mechanics are simpler than on a Spirit II. I've done all maintenance and repair work myself, while having no technical background whatsoever.
In the Sunday Times Tom Hartley Sr mentioned the Shadow 2 as one of the cars that would be a good investement. I'm not sure that it will double in value in the next 5 years, as he believes , but they are undervalued and should prove a better investement than a Spirit.
While the Spirit II will technically be the better car, it doesn't give the sense of occasion that the Shadow will provide (I've driven a friends similar Mulsanne, so can compare them). The Shadow has the typical classic Rolls Royce look, while the Spirit looks a bit like a posh Granada.
Also, Shadows are not that hard to work on yourself, as the mechanics are simpler than on a Spirit II. I've done all maintenance and repair work myself, while having no technical background whatsoever.
In the Sunday Times Tom Hartley Sr mentioned the Shadow 2 as one of the cars that would be a good investement. I'm not sure that it will double in value in the next 5 years, as he believes , but they are undervalued and should prove a better investement than a Spirit.
No experience of Spirit, but I have owned a Shadow 2 and currently have a Turbo R. Shadow would be the better investment and arguably the better looker (though not IMO), but Turbo R is the better to drive by a country mile - performance, handling, fuel consumption, brakes and equipment levels are far superior IMO.
I have had a Bentley T2 for 11 years and have clocked up 14,000 miles with no expense other than regular servicing. I have also had a RR Phantom Drophead for 5 years. The low speed ride of the Bentley is the equal of the Phantom Drophead and is just as much an occasion to drive. The Bentley is a wallowy old girl if you try to press on but you are rarely tempted to ask that of her. The Bentley is happy enough at 80mph on the motorway but could really do with another gear to drop the revs. Fuel consumption is very high but that has been my only expense and there is no depreciation. The Silver Spirit/Bentley Turbos to my mind lack style but I recognise that is subjective. I would go for a T2/Shadow II and spend the extra money to get the best.
Like you Cefni, this is my first posting and I wish you good luck with your forthcoming purchase!
I acquired a late Shadow II in the summer and feel lucky that I found a good one for significantly less money than you are considering spending. Mine came with good provenance and as I didn't want a 'project', much of the work was already done, although as I write this, the car is with my mechanic with a shopping list of work to be completed before overwintering :-/ I am sure you appreciate that they can be a money pit. I can't comment on the driveablility variations or compare with the Spirit, however here are a couple of my observations.
I was a little concerned that people would react unfavorably to the car (the green eyed monster) but to my delight, the SY2 raises smiles and waves of appreciation - even whilst standing in congestion or at the filling station, and somewhat worryingly, turns heads on the motorway!
Find a good independent maintenance specialist to consult and make friends with before your purchase (I have a great one) to help keep costs down and keep you right, (spares availability seems very good too, with a couple of good suppliers around).
I share Byteme's view that as I grew up with this model, I feel I have a greater affinity to the era but it really is great fun to drive and with such road presence feels like an occasion whenever you're on the road.
Finally, consider joining the enthusiasts club whom I found able to provide helpful insights and information and could also be useful to find a car.
I hope that you find this of interest and hope you discover a car to enjoy and who knows, you may eventually have an investment on your hands. I hope I do!
I acquired a late Shadow II in the summer and feel lucky that I found a good one for significantly less money than you are considering spending. Mine came with good provenance and as I didn't want a 'project', much of the work was already done, although as I write this, the car is with my mechanic with a shopping list of work to be completed before overwintering :-/ I am sure you appreciate that they can be a money pit. I can't comment on the driveablility variations or compare with the Spirit, however here are a couple of my observations.
I was a little concerned that people would react unfavorably to the car (the green eyed monster) but to my delight, the SY2 raises smiles and waves of appreciation - even whilst standing in congestion or at the filling station, and somewhat worryingly, turns heads on the motorway!
Find a good independent maintenance specialist to consult and make friends with before your purchase (I have a great one) to help keep costs down and keep you right, (spares availability seems very good too, with a couple of good suppliers around).
I share Byteme's view that as I grew up with this model, I feel I have a greater affinity to the era but it really is great fun to drive and with such road presence feels like an occasion whenever you're on the road.
Finally, consider joining the enthusiasts club whom I found able to provide helpful insights and information and could also be useful to find a car.
I hope that you find this of interest and hope you discover a car to enjoy and who knows, you may eventually have an investment on your hands. I hope I do!
I've had a Shadow 11 for approx. 10 years (it's been in family since mid-80's, still only 40,000 miles)) and have always preferred the look of the Shadow to the Spirit probably because the Shadow was the current Rolls (should that be Royce 
) during my 'impressionable' years. The quality and relative simplicity still appeal.
For some reason I've never really been tempted by a Spirit, although I did seriously consider a Turbo R or Brooklands Mulliner approx 5 years ago; I suspect that the twin headlights and different interior did it for the Bentley.
I can't comment on the handling of a Spirit active ride, but my Shadow has the Harvey Bailey handling kit which does improve things noticeably; it's still a 'floaty' ride but has less roll. It was fitted a long time ago so it's difficult to recall what the car was like originally, but I do recall being surprised at how much roll there was on the standard setup. I think RR also offered a similar type of upgrade at some stage, but have no idea how many cars might have been fitted with either kit.
) during my 'impressionable' years. The quality and relative simplicity still appeal. For some reason I've never really been tempted by a Spirit, although I did seriously consider a Turbo R or Brooklands Mulliner approx 5 years ago; I suspect that the twin headlights and different interior did it for the Bentley.
I can't comment on the handling of a Spirit active ride, but my Shadow has the Harvey Bailey handling kit which does improve things noticeably; it's still a 'floaty' ride but has less roll. It was fitted a long time ago so it's difficult to recall what the car was like originally, but I do recall being surprised at how much roll there was on the standard setup. I think RR also offered a similar type of upgrade at some stage, but have no idea how many cars might have been fitted with either kit.
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