Poor, skint person contemplating a Turbo R....
Discussion
Promised myself a Bentley since... well, forever! Nearly bought one a few years ago but all the cars I saw were really doggy, so bought a Merc SL instead.
Now, single, poor and living in squalor. To cap it all, I'm a cripple that can barely walk, not that that's really relevant. I have the cash to buy one and really, really scared. I am no longer able to do much maintenance myself so whatever I get has to be reliable. I've seen a few old ones (early 80's) with low miles and history, but, I really want one of the later ones with centre gearchange and fuel injection/abs etc.
Also considered the straight Mulsanne/8/Brooklands and they seem, generally, to be better buys - more car for the money/better history/lower miles/better condition. Is this as good a car?
What is the best thing to do? Baring in mind this will be my only car and it will have to live outside. Not ideal really and I sort of feel sorry for whatever car I get as it will not be used to such shabby treatment.
Really looking for advice as to what to look out for, desirable things to have, cars to avoid and the best amount to budget for the car and maintenance - looking at about 2000-3000 miles per year. Also, any trusted specialists who can look after the old girl in the Torbay/South Devon area.
Many thanks.
Now, single, poor and living in squalor. To cap it all, I'm a cripple that can barely walk, not that that's really relevant. I have the cash to buy one and really, really scared. I am no longer able to do much maintenance myself so whatever I get has to be reliable. I've seen a few old ones (early 80's) with low miles and history, but, I really want one of the later ones with centre gearchange and fuel injection/abs etc.
Also considered the straight Mulsanne/8/Brooklands and they seem, generally, to be better buys - more car for the money/better history/lower miles/better condition. Is this as good a car?
What is the best thing to do? Baring in mind this will be my only car and it will have to live outside. Not ideal really and I sort of feel sorry for whatever car I get as it will not be used to such shabby treatment.
Really looking for advice as to what to look out for, desirable things to have, cars to avoid and the best amount to budget for the car and maintenance - looking at about 2000-3000 miles per year. Also, any trusted specialists who can look after the old girl in the Torbay/South Devon area.
Many thanks.
This is my check list:
- Make sure bodywork and trim are excellent as it's very expensive to rectify. Walk away from rust.
- Once you think you have found a suitable car, get it checked by a reliable mechanic who knows these cars and then make sure the price reflects any mechanical work required.
- Get a non turbo charged car if you don't need the performance of the Turbo, as they are cheaper, infact you can probably find a great deal at the moment.
- Budget £300 on a decent cover if it is going to have to live outside eg. www.specialisedcovers.com
Don't be afraid to offer well below asking price, these are difficult cars to sell and you might be surprised what sort of deal you can do.
Once you get one, be very careful of parts prices and specialists. Prices for genuine parts can vary massively and there are a lot of very good specialists but some are also extremely expensive. Just be clear with them as to what their charges are for doing the various services and typical repair jobs before you give them the car and then check the cost of parts and check how long the job should take (get the Bentley workshop and parts manual disk for £25 from Flying Spares as this gives you all the typical workshop times and service schedules)
- Make sure bodywork and trim are excellent as it's very expensive to rectify. Walk away from rust.
- Once you think you have found a suitable car, get it checked by a reliable mechanic who knows these cars and then make sure the price reflects any mechanical work required.
- Get a non turbo charged car if you don't need the performance of the Turbo, as they are cheaper, infact you can probably find a great deal at the moment.
- Budget £300 on a decent cover if it is going to have to live outside eg. www.specialisedcovers.com
Don't be afraid to offer well below asking price, these are difficult cars to sell and you might be surprised what sort of deal you can do.
Once you get one, be very careful of parts prices and specialists. Prices for genuine parts can vary massively and there are a lot of very good specialists but some are also extremely expensive. Just be clear with them as to what their charges are for doing the various services and typical repair jobs before you give them the car and then check the cost of parts and check how long the job should take (get the Bentley workshop and parts manual disk for £25 from Flying Spares as this gives you all the typical workshop times and service schedules)
I've owned by 1992 Turbo R for 6 years and have enjoyed just about every minute - except when I have to hand the credit card to the repair shop.
This is not a car for someone who doesn't have a lot of extra money to throw on repairs. The repairs are ghastly expensive. My car had 70,000 miles when I bought it and had a pretty good bill of health. After I had purchased it, I immediately spent about $10,000 on getting everything in tip top shape. That lasted me for about two years, where I averaged about $1000. The last three years, however, the expenses have gone up exponentially. I spent about $8,000 last year, and about $5,000 each for the two previous years. This year so far I've spent about $2,000. Basically, unless you can budget around $4K a year on repairs, don't get the car. Whereas I was fine not spending the money on my other cars (Hondas, Toyotas, Volvos), I can't sleep well knowing that the "Bent" is lacking in something. I put on about 4,000 miles a year.
I purchased the car for only $17,000, so the $5K a year in expenses would translate into a lease of a low end Merc or Lexus. That's how I justify owning the Bentley.
This is not a car for someone who doesn't have a lot of extra money to throw on repairs. The repairs are ghastly expensive. My car had 70,000 miles when I bought it and had a pretty good bill of health. After I had purchased it, I immediately spent about $10,000 on getting everything in tip top shape. That lasted me for about two years, where I averaged about $1000. The last three years, however, the expenses have gone up exponentially. I spent about $8,000 last year, and about $5,000 each for the two previous years. This year so far I've spent about $2,000. Basically, unless you can budget around $4K a year on repairs, don't get the car. Whereas I was fine not spending the money on my other cars (Hondas, Toyotas, Volvos), I can't sleep well knowing that the "Bent" is lacking in something. I put on about 4,000 miles a year.
I purchased the car for only $17,000, so the $5K a year in expenses would translate into a lease of a low end Merc or Lexus. That's how I justify owning the Bentley.
Thanks for the advice chaps. It's definitely one of those things on my 'bucket' list to own a Bentley. Loved them ever since I was a child living in Kew and seeing S3's and Silver Shadows in abundance. Been in/driven a few Shadows and they really don't do it for me - far to floaty and wallowy which is why a Turbo R (or one of its close cousins with the same suspension) really appeals.
Does anyone know of a decent specialist in the Devon/Torbay area?
Does anyone know of a decent specialist in the Devon/Torbay area?
My car goes to Specialist Cars South West in Exeter:
http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
Which ever way you look at it these cars are not cheap to maintain. Generally I think they are pretty bullet proof and reliable but you need to keep on top of stuff and that's the problem. The guys on here much like myself like to keep on top of stuff. But there will be a lot of cars out there where guys have bought a Turbo R for Mondeo money and think they can get away with an annual service bill of £500. It is not going to happen.
Be carefull not to buy someone elses headache. A poorly maintained car will cost a lot of money to sort out and that is if you have the money to sort it out.
If you are going to keep the car outside in all weathers you have accept that the cars bodywork will deteriorate rapidly. Your Turbo R will become worth next to nothing which would be a shame.
The Turbo R is a tidal wave on wheels. If you have described your financial position fairly then I would not contemplate buying any RR or B. Stick to the cheap to maintain stuff unless you can do them justice.
Be carefull not to buy someone elses headache. A poorly maintained car will cost a lot of money to sort out and that is if you have the money to sort it out.
If you are going to keep the car outside in all weathers you have accept that the cars bodywork will deteriorate rapidly. Your Turbo R will become worth next to nothing which would be a shame.
The Turbo R is a tidal wave on wheels. If you have described your financial position fairly then I would not contemplate buying any RR or B. Stick to the cheap to maintain stuff unless you can do them justice.
All fair comments Graemel (hope I spelled that correctly!). I do have a history of owning cars beyond my means and have never skimped on maintenance - that's what credit cards are for, right?
I loved taking my SL out, coming home, washing, polishing then into the garage and all its soft covers on, but that isn't going to be possible for a while. I don't intend to stay where I currently live for much longer and a garage is a definite requirement - one large enough to hold a Turbo R!
If one appears on the horizon that fits the budget with the correct history within the next few months, then it will be bought and have to live outside and be my only car for a while. Perhaps it will give me the impetus to get my life in order!
Ultimately, it will be my second car for high days and special occasions, a more practical (read: cheap) car will also be acquired.
I'm currently driving a new(ish) MX5 and with two dogs it really isn't sensible and friends all tried to talk me out of getting it. However, both dogs love it! Neither of them are small and they fit and are safe... so where there's a will, there's a way!
A Bentley of that generation is a life requirement for me. I can (it would appear) comfortably afford an Arnage, but they just don't 'do it' for me in the same way. I am broke as in I'm on a pension, but I have cash in the bank, I just choose NOT to spend it!
Whatever car I acquire, will, in short order, be a better car than when I acquired it - believe me. So, any advice as to what to seek is gratefully received. I want a Turbo R, but I don't 'need' a Turbo just the 'R' bit.
Many thanks one and all.
I loved taking my SL out, coming home, washing, polishing then into the garage and all its soft covers on, but that isn't going to be possible for a while. I don't intend to stay where I currently live for much longer and a garage is a definite requirement - one large enough to hold a Turbo R!
If one appears on the horizon that fits the budget with the correct history within the next few months, then it will be bought and have to live outside and be my only car for a while. Perhaps it will give me the impetus to get my life in order!
Ultimately, it will be my second car for high days and special occasions, a more practical (read: cheap) car will also be acquired.
I'm currently driving a new(ish) MX5 and with two dogs it really isn't sensible and friends all tried to talk me out of getting it. However, both dogs love it! Neither of them are small and they fit and are safe... so where there's a will, there's a way!
A Bentley of that generation is a life requirement for me. I can (it would appear) comfortably afford an Arnage, but they just don't 'do it' for me in the same way. I am broke as in I'm on a pension, but I have cash in the bank, I just choose NOT to spend it!
Whatever car I acquire, will, in short order, be a better car than when I acquired it - believe me. So, any advice as to what to seek is gratefully received. I want a Turbo R, but I don't 'need' a Turbo just the 'R' bit.
Many thanks one and all.
9six4 said:
My car goes to Specialist Cars South West in Exeter:
http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
Not suggesting for a moment that the company you mention does this, I am sure they are excellent, but the biggest problem I have encountered over the years is a reasonable labour rate, but that when rate is billed for too many hours. For example, charging out an interim service for 6 hours when the recommended is 3.5.http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
matt5791 said:
Not suggesting for a moment that the company you mention does this, I am sure they are excellent, but the biggest problem I have encountered over the years is a reasonable labour rate, but that when rate is billed for too many hours. For example, charging out an interim service for 6 hours when the recommended is 3.5.
Seized / broken bolts, correcting bodges done by others, age related problems. all add up in hours. Plus the "book" times are a guide only. Sometimes they can be beaten, but most times they are too short.After 40+ years running my w/shop I have learned to keep the customer informed all the way through a job. Not that many others do - especially franchised dealers.
Find a good independent and make him your New Best Friend.
Wacky Racer said:
Single,...poor,...living in squalor....thinking of buying a used Bentley.......
What could possibly go wrong?.......
I have never said I was sensible! I'm on the look out for a woman with a nice house and a HUGE garage that likes dogs and cripples!What could possibly go wrong?.......
I've seen a couple so far: the first I really liked, red, cream leather and really pleasant... apart from the mammoth water leak and convincing lack of history! The second was older, on carbs and wouldn't run properly, also had recent paintwork (not mentioned on the phone) and bubbles appearing on the arches. Not impressed.
Still, I drove the red one and loved it. Still thinking about buying it even though I know it needs work.... rose coloured specs/heart ruling head.
Budget on around £4000 a year for servicing, maintenance and fixing it when it breaks.
Some years will be cheaper, with the occasional year at under £1000 (and maybe, if you own it for long enough, you may even get a "free" year, as I did last year, after 14 years),
Some years will be more expensive, with the odd hit at more than it's actually worth (I've had a few of them).
Overall it'll balance out at around £4000 a year.
Some years will be cheaper, with the occasional year at under £1000 (and maybe, if you own it for long enough, you may even get a "free" year, as I did last year, after 14 years),
Some years will be more expensive, with the odd hit at more than it's actually worth (I've had a few of them).
Overall it'll balance out at around £4000 a year.
I'm actually pretty annoyed by that, and that annoys me too, because I shouldn't let people on the internet annoy me.
Perhaps I could give you a chapter and verse breakdown of my last bill, or a selection of random bills from my last 15 years of ownership, for your deconstruction, and no doubt you could tell me where I went wrong and how I was robbed.
But I am not an idiot, I know my car, I know what's what and I trust Simon & Stuart of Phantom Motors who look after my car. I get very good rates from them, and we source the parts at the keenest price. I am also very careful on what I decide gets done, and what can be left for the time being. But I like to keep on top of the car, and I do have high standards.
Maybe ask Graemel what he's spent on his car so far? or see Resses post that details his total servicing & maintenance spend on a car he's had since new, and numerous others in this forum on this subject over several years.
From your other posts, you would appear to know something about these cars, so why come out with b
ks like that?
Over and out.
Perhaps I could give you a chapter and verse breakdown of my last bill, or a selection of random bills from my last 15 years of ownership, for your deconstruction, and no doubt you could tell me where I went wrong and how I was robbed.
But I am not an idiot, I know my car, I know what's what and I trust Simon & Stuart of Phantom Motors who look after my car. I get very good rates from them, and we source the parts at the keenest price. I am also very careful on what I decide gets done, and what can be left for the time being. But I like to keep on top of the car, and I do have high standards.
Maybe ask Graemel what he's spent on his car so far? or see Resses post that details his total servicing & maintenance spend on a car he's had since new, and numerous others in this forum on this subject over several years.
From your other posts, you would appear to know something about these cars, so why come out with b
ks like that? Over and out.
Byteme said:
Ignore Balmoral's post, he's being "mugged" by whoever looks after his car.
I think that is a pretty unfair post Steve and I feel an apology to Balmoral would not go amiss.Hatty is a very good example. But she is not concours nor will she ever be concours. I would not want concours. But she will always be very well looked after.
David the important thing is that you go into Turbo R ownership with your eyes wide open. Personally I would suggest you buy the best you can afford and stay away from a car with problems. Ok minor problems are not so much of an issue but it all adds up very quickly.
Having bought Hatty back in November my first mission was to top to tail the car.
I've probably forgotten some stuff but the main items were new wheel bearings and skim the brake discs on all four corners. Replace the fluid lines from the brake reservoir. Gearbox oil and filter. Change the diff oil. Engine oil and filter and new air filter. Thoroughly clean the underside and re waxoyl. Grease everything that should be greased. Replace drivers side carpet. Fit flying B. Fit transient boost kit. Ok that was not a necessity but boy does it liven things up a bit
That lot was £3K.Next mission is a fresh set of tyres. Will most likely go with the Avons as I can get them at a good price.
Replace fuel pump and fuel pipe to tank.
Replace batteries in the seat ecu's.
Then attend to some corrosion around the wheel arches.
So I reckon somewhere around £6K in less than a year of ownership and that is on a car that is a very good example. That has been well maintained and cherished.
Hopefully our second year should be cheap motoring but then on a 24 year old car you have to expect the unexpected.
But believe you me it is worth every single penny from the enjoyment I get from driving it. It is my number one car of all time and I have owned a lot of cars over the years.
Balmoral said:
Budget on around £4000 a year for servicing, maintenance and fixing it when it breaks.
Some years will be cheaper, with the occasional year at under £1000 (and maybe, if you own it for long enough, you may even get a "free" year, as I did last year, after 14 years),
Some years will be more expensive, with the odd hit at more than it's actually worth (I've had a few of them).
Overall it'll balance out at around £4000 a year.
My own experience over 11 years suggests a similar figure and similar ups and downs. If you want to run one of these cars you have to realise that it is not going to be a cheap ride. But it is worth every penny!Some years will be cheaper, with the occasional year at under £1000 (and maybe, if you own it for long enough, you may even get a "free" year, as I did last year, after 14 years),
Some years will be more expensive, with the odd hit at more than it's actually worth (I've had a few of them).
Overall it'll balance out at around £4000 a year.
In order to give the original poster some more guidance on running costs - I recently spent £1100 (inc vat) on my car doing some fairly routine - typical - jobs - so this will maybe give some idea on repair and service costs for the original poster. This bill covered parts and labour for:
Replacement of front ball joints
Replacement of thermostat
Replacement of both rear gas springs (spheres)
General adjustments eg. rear ride height
Labour amounted to approx. 50% of the cost. I think the £1100 was reasonable and fair for this work, from an experienced garage.
(Had I instructed the workshop to buy the parts from Roberts Hall, we would have saved quite a bit on the parts. Unfortunately I didn't realise at the time.)
Next up is refacing of the brake disks, new pads. And ultimately I probably need new front springs and a general front suspension rebuild because it's tired - which is quite common to happen on these cars (dampers seem fine though....)
So by the time we get to December, 12 months of ownership for me, I probably will have spent about £3-£4K. However, this car was in need of TLC when I bought it.
In an ideal world, I'd give it a full bare metal re-spray.......in my dreams...
Replacement of front ball joints
Replacement of thermostat
Replacement of both rear gas springs (spheres)
General adjustments eg. rear ride height
Labour amounted to approx. 50% of the cost. I think the £1100 was reasonable and fair for this work, from an experienced garage.
(Had I instructed the workshop to buy the parts from Roberts Hall, we would have saved quite a bit on the parts. Unfortunately I didn't realise at the time.)
Next up is refacing of the brake disks, new pads. And ultimately I probably need new front springs and a general front suspension rebuild because it's tired - which is quite common to happen on these cars (dampers seem fine though....)
So by the time we get to December, 12 months of ownership for me, I probably will have spent about £3-£4K. However, this car was in need of TLC when I bought it.
In an ideal world, I'd give it a full bare metal re-spray.......in my dreams...
9six4 said:
My car goes to Specialist Cars South West in Exeter:
http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
So does mine. I used to send mine to Stuart and Simon like Warren, but having SCSW within walking distance of home does make it very convenient. They are knowledgeable and very helpful.http://www.specialistcars-southwest.co.uk
Friendly and reasonable labour rates.
Andy
I am aware that these things cost several small fortunes to run properly, just not what precisely it is that needs doing. Are the engines (I imagine that head gasket failure is a major drama!) reliable? I know the old GM 400 'box was pretty strong but what about the later 4 speed?
I'm really sure I'm going to get one, but unsure as to what to spend! Do I buy cheap and then spend money (lots of) on making it 'right' or, spend lots on the initial purchase and hope that's it a food 'un?
There seems to be a huge disparity in prices: £5K up to £20K for, what seems to be the same car! I don't mind travelling to view, but it would be nice if one or two were a bit closer to home! Also, it would be nice to know if the car was a good one before traipsing off to Cheshire to view.
I really want a red Turbo R with efi, abs, 4 speed ( I like the centre gear change!) and a light coloured interior. I want low miles and great history and I want pretty much immaculate. The car will be a 'keeper' so a hobby as much as a vehicle. As soon as I get somewhere to live with a driveway/garage then I can maintain at my leasure. I have always done quite a bit of work on my cars, but with advancing spinal problems, the amount I can do in one go is limited so a second car to provide actual transport will be required!
I've seen a Brooklands for sale about 75 mules away. It has a light coloured interior... but it's green. Not a fan of green cars and a lot of the late Brooklands seem to be the same colour. I find it interesting that the quoted BHP is the same as the early Turbos. Am I right?
Any one got a view on the Brooklands?
I'm really sure I'm going to get one, but unsure as to what to spend! Do I buy cheap and then spend money (lots of) on making it 'right' or, spend lots on the initial purchase and hope that's it a food 'un?
There seems to be a huge disparity in prices: £5K up to £20K for, what seems to be the same car! I don't mind travelling to view, but it would be nice if one or two were a bit closer to home! Also, it would be nice to know if the car was a good one before traipsing off to Cheshire to view.
I really want a red Turbo R with efi, abs, 4 speed ( I like the centre gear change!) and a light coloured interior. I want low miles and great history and I want pretty much immaculate. The car will be a 'keeper' so a hobby as much as a vehicle. As soon as I get somewhere to live with a driveway/garage then I can maintain at my leasure. I have always done quite a bit of work on my cars, but with advancing spinal problems, the amount I can do in one go is limited so a second car to provide actual transport will be required!
I've seen a Brooklands for sale about 75 mules away. It has a light coloured interior... but it's green. Not a fan of green cars and a lot of the late Brooklands seem to be the same colour. I find it interesting that the quoted BHP is the same as the early Turbos. Am I right?
Any one got a view on the Brooklands?
Gassing Station | Bentley & Rolls Royce | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff