Discussion
I now appear to have not one but two R-registered Bentleys; an early 4.4ltr Arnage and a Brooklands R Mulliner. I thought I would bore you all to death with a short synopsis and my initial feelings about the pair.
The Brooklands has 325bhp and the Arnage 349bhp, so in terms of power there is not much in it. Once the BMW engined car has girded its loins it is menacingly quick but off the line it just doesn't have the same urgency. I guess the shortfall in torque leaves it feeling overwhelmed by its mass. Don't get me wrong, the Arnage is not a slow car, but around town it certainly feels a little more like my Mercedes SL than my Chippendale Shadow. Up to about 55/60mph the Shadow has a waftiness and surplus to it which imbues one with a sense of well being, and slows the heart rate.
The Arnage is squeak and rattle free (and curiously quiet) and manages not far off double the MPG of the Shadow and 1.5 times that of the Brooklands, so all these pointers work in its favour. On winding a-roads it is blisteringly quick and a great car to overtake in. It also feels more mechanically indestructible than the 6230/6750cc cars and if I wanted a car to cross Europe in, I think I would feel more confident taking the 4.4ltr car. Everyone said that I would find the Brooklands R Mulliner rather stiffly sprung but in fairness I think its the Arnage which has the firmer ride. Perhaps I was pleasantly surprised by the older car and had too high expectations of the newer.
The Arnage feels like a curious hybrid; a sort of lost mixture of old world charm and new age dynamics - I can totally see how and why the Vickers board thought it was a good idea, but I can also see how critics felt it had lost some of its predecessor's analogue charm. As a car to use on a daily basis, it can take the punishment, but Bentley themselves admit that most Bentley owners have at least 4 other cars, and as such the Green Label just doesn't feel special enough.
I don't want a Red Label Arnage - for one reason or another it doesn't excite me enough. I also find the lwb nature of the Brooklands R a little tedious when looking for a parking space. Perhaps one day I will replace the two with swb late model Turbo R. Best not try a Continental R either....
The Brooklands has 325bhp and the Arnage 349bhp, so in terms of power there is not much in it. Once the BMW engined car has girded its loins it is menacingly quick but off the line it just doesn't have the same urgency. I guess the shortfall in torque leaves it feeling overwhelmed by its mass. Don't get me wrong, the Arnage is not a slow car, but around town it certainly feels a little more like my Mercedes SL than my Chippendale Shadow. Up to about 55/60mph the Shadow has a waftiness and surplus to it which imbues one with a sense of well being, and slows the heart rate.
The Arnage is squeak and rattle free (and curiously quiet) and manages not far off double the MPG of the Shadow and 1.5 times that of the Brooklands, so all these pointers work in its favour. On winding a-roads it is blisteringly quick and a great car to overtake in. It also feels more mechanically indestructible than the 6230/6750cc cars and if I wanted a car to cross Europe in, I think I would feel more confident taking the 4.4ltr car. Everyone said that I would find the Brooklands R Mulliner rather stiffly sprung but in fairness I think its the Arnage which has the firmer ride. Perhaps I was pleasantly surprised by the older car and had too high expectations of the newer.
The Arnage feels like a curious hybrid; a sort of lost mixture of old world charm and new age dynamics - I can totally see how and why the Vickers board thought it was a good idea, but I can also see how critics felt it had lost some of its predecessor's analogue charm. As a car to use on a daily basis, it can take the punishment, but Bentley themselves admit that most Bentley owners have at least 4 other cars, and as such the Green Label just doesn't feel special enough.
I don't want a Red Label Arnage - for one reason or another it doesn't excite me enough. I also find the lwb nature of the Brooklands R a little tedious when looking for a parking space. Perhaps one day I will replace the two with swb late model Turbo R. Best not try a Continental R either....
Great and informative post. Thank you. there are lots of us with the older cars thinking about buying something a little more 'every day' and to have heard first hand experience from someone who actually owns two cars high on the list is fabulous
is your Brooklands a LPT? I hear even these have head gasket issues like the Turbo 'R', but I'm not sure if that's hearsay
is your Brooklands a LPT? I hear even these have head gasket issues like the Turbo 'R', but I'm not sure if that's hearsay
The Brooklands R Mulliners have a light pressure turbo which produces 325bhp rather than the 300bhp found in the standard late model Brooklands. I think all these late cars can suffer head gasket failure but although mine has suffered other maladies in the past, head gasket failure is not one of them.
I guess for any of us, we actually have to sit down and think about how much we are going to use our cars. If the honest answer is everyday, then something a little newer is probably easier to live with. If the answer is a couple of times a week or less, then I think the charm of the older models wins over their modern brethrens.
I guess for any of us, we actually have to sit down and think about how much we are going to use our cars. If the honest answer is everyday, then something a little newer is probably easier to live with. If the answer is a couple of times a week or less, then I think the charm of the older models wins over their modern brethrens.
I can't believe how cheap the BMW engined Arnages have become. There are some half decent examples to be had for teen figures (although there also seems to be plenty of rubbish around for the same sort of money). I think that the long term running costs wont be far off that of a Turbo R; the Arnage might use less fuel but it has more complex electronics and the parts situation isn't yet as competitive. I haven't yet made any decisions about how long I will keep any of the cars for; as I wrote in another post some months back, I would very much like a late Continental R or perhaps an Aston V8 Coupe (the naturally aspirated version of the 1990s Vantage). I think four V8s might be a little indulgent....
I will keep all and sundry updated on how much each car does cost to run but in the meantime I have enclosed photos of some of my collection for interest.
I will keep all and sundry updated on how much each car does cost to run but in the meantime I have enclosed photos of some of my collection for interest.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
What is wrong with this? Very cheap, maybe too cheap!
What is wrong with this? Very cheap, maybe too cheap!
jinkster said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
What is wrong with this? Very cheap, maybe too cheap!
Looking at the profile shots it seems to be sat very high, especially at the rear.What is wrong with this? Very cheap, maybe too cheap!
Possible hydraulic issues?
Certainly the cheapest example I've seen offered for sale.
Andy
That one has been for sale for ever. I was looking at Arnages towards the end of last year. I distinctly remember that one with the rear suspension which looks too high and the wheel too far forwards. I'm sure it was about £15K at the time. Now down to £11k.
Must be something horribly wrong with it needing some serious money to get sorted out!
Must be something horribly wrong with it needing some serious money to get sorted out!
The car with the high rear suspension was sold to that dealer by a private buyer. It was advertised on autotrader some time ago for 8995 I believe. I wouldn't let the mileage put you off; my car has 85k miles but with only 1 owner and circa £20ks worth of service history I thought it was a decent bet.
If you are after a 4.4 then hold on in there. Avoid the dealers as they've never carried out as much service work as they should have done prior to sale(Ferrari garages excluded maybe), and look for well maintained car coming from private hands or a small private collection.
If you are after a 4.4 then hold on in there. Avoid the dealers as they've never carried out as much service work as they should have done prior to sale(Ferrari garages excluded maybe), and look for well maintained car coming from private hands or a small private collection.
£8995! After 6 months of happy ownership I thought I would bore you all a little more on my feelings about the Arnage (4.4ltr) and the Brooklands (R Mulliner).
The Brooklands has proved the more expensive of the two cars to maintain by a long shot. It was double as much to service and is significantly thristier (uses about 50% more fuel).
I prefer the Brooklands around town. The steering is lighter and the torque available at lower revs. It feels like a grown up hot rod; a little raw in its power delivery but with a lovely exhaust note and quick reactions. Personally I prefer the classic design of the interior although the Arnage has an airier feeling with significantly more headroom (neither cars have sunroofs). You can also sit higher in the Arnage without looking daft.
The power delivery in the 4.4 is rather gentle when not trying, whereas with the 6.75, it is there whether you want it or not. At higher road speeds and especially on gently winding A-roads, I think it is the Arnage's power which impresses the most. When you get to know the car and have learnt how best to stir the BWM 5 sp box, the thing flies like nothing else I have ever driven. The shove in the back is relentless and totally addictive. Although the Brooklands sounds more interesting at startup or when standing alongside the car, the Arnage's quad cam V8 sounds absolutely awesome under full throttle - think nascar.
Overall, the Arnage has really really grown on me; much more than I thought it would to be honest. It feels really solidly built and makes the RZ generation cars feel a little too fragile. The Arnage is so quiet when you want it to be (less noise and vibration than the 6.75ltr) and never feels like bits are going to fall off or the car is going to let you down. The shell feels much stiffer than its predecessor and the low speed ride is better (although at higher speeds I think the Brooklands wins). It is the Arnage which feels more insulated from the outside world but the Brooklands which cossets you. Even taking this into account, it is the Arnage that I always take if I have a long tiring journey ahead.
I hear that the later Green Label and Birkin 4.4ltr cars had variable speed power steering and uprated suspension and dampers. I would love to hear from anyone who has driven both early and late 4.4ltr cars and can tell me if these upgrades are really noticeable. For me, it is the weight of the steering around town which feels like the biggest let down in the early cars. Don't get me wrong, it is only a minor gripe, but it makes them unwieldy and harder work than a Bentley should be. What stands out most to me though, is how underrated the early Arnage has become. If you fancy Bentley motoring with Range Rover running costs, I cannot recommend one enough.
The Brooklands has proved the more expensive of the two cars to maintain by a long shot. It was double as much to service and is significantly thristier (uses about 50% more fuel).
I prefer the Brooklands around town. The steering is lighter and the torque available at lower revs. It feels like a grown up hot rod; a little raw in its power delivery but with a lovely exhaust note and quick reactions. Personally I prefer the classic design of the interior although the Arnage has an airier feeling with significantly more headroom (neither cars have sunroofs). You can also sit higher in the Arnage without looking daft.
The power delivery in the 4.4 is rather gentle when not trying, whereas with the 6.75, it is there whether you want it or not. At higher road speeds and especially on gently winding A-roads, I think it is the Arnage's power which impresses the most. When you get to know the car and have learnt how best to stir the BWM 5 sp box, the thing flies like nothing else I have ever driven. The shove in the back is relentless and totally addictive. Although the Brooklands sounds more interesting at startup or when standing alongside the car, the Arnage's quad cam V8 sounds absolutely awesome under full throttle - think nascar.
Overall, the Arnage has really really grown on me; much more than I thought it would to be honest. It feels really solidly built and makes the RZ generation cars feel a little too fragile. The Arnage is so quiet when you want it to be (less noise and vibration than the 6.75ltr) and never feels like bits are going to fall off or the car is going to let you down. The shell feels much stiffer than its predecessor and the low speed ride is better (although at higher speeds I think the Brooklands wins). It is the Arnage which feels more insulated from the outside world but the Brooklands which cossets you. Even taking this into account, it is the Arnage that I always take if I have a long tiring journey ahead.
I hear that the later Green Label and Birkin 4.4ltr cars had variable speed power steering and uprated suspension and dampers. I would love to hear from anyone who has driven both early and late 4.4ltr cars and can tell me if these upgrades are really noticeable. For me, it is the weight of the steering around town which feels like the biggest let down in the early cars. Don't get me wrong, it is only a minor gripe, but it makes them unwieldy and harder work than a Bentley should be. What stands out most to me though, is how underrated the early Arnage has become. If you fancy Bentley motoring with Range Rover running costs, I cannot recommend one enough.
Thank you for the comprehensive update.
The Arnage 4.4 (and Green Label) are typically portrayed as the poor relation to the Arnage Red Label, so it's interesting to hear your comments. I've always wondered if the less favourable comparison is justifiable and your experience would suggest not - just a different experience.
Together with your Brooklands R it seems that you may have the best of old and new(er).
Andy
The Arnage 4.4 (and Green Label) are typically portrayed as the poor relation to the Arnage Red Label, so it's interesting to hear your comments. I've always wondered if the less favourable comparison is justifiable and your experience would suggest not - just a different experience.
Together with your Brooklands R it seems that you may have the best of old and new(er).
Andy
Edward, interesting reading. I have to admit eye'ing up your car before you bought it (it had Irish reg if I remember correctly?) and since you put it up for sale again, and your thoughts are helping massively.
I have done a good few hundred miles in an 05 T and kind of worry that an early 4.4 might not cut it, but your posts seem to make me think it would be perfect for what I want. Something not bonkers to keep but still with the look and sense of occasion.
I have done a good few hundred miles in an 05 T and kind of worry that an early 4.4 might not cut it, but your posts seem to make me think it would be perfect for what I want. Something not bonkers to keep but still with the look and sense of occasion.
18 months after my first post I have come full circle. A friend persuaded me to sell him the 4.4ltr Arnage I originally wrote about and I have regretted it ever since. I used and enjoyed the Brooklands R Mulliner but it just kept breaking so I gave in and sold it (for an almightly loss) and vowed never to have one again.
Instead I decided to buy another BMW engined Arnage and so begun the long slog to find a decent one. So many seem to have been either trashed, crashed or blinged up. I wanted a car with orange indicators and early wheels but was willing to restore these features if I found a Red Label look-a-like. I didn't want a black or silver car and I didn't want anything with a black interior. I also didn't want to walk into a dealer and write a blank cheque. In the end my patience paid off and I am now the proud owner of low mileage '98 example in black emerald (very dark blue) with un-piped cream leather.
The 4.4ltr Arnage is so much less fragile and I just don't worry about it in the same way as I did the Brooklands. I am happy to use it in any weather and don't worry about it getting a bit dirty. Yes, it is not as special as the SZ series cars but it is still an extraordinarily pleasant way of getting from A - B and even does so with relative frugality. It is fantastically smooth, more than adequately powerful and pleasingly quiet.
Funnily enough, my new Arnage has the twin coachlines like the first one I had and I think they break up the side profile well. I am at a loss as to why more cars didn't come with them. Sadly the coachlines weren't the only extra specified at the factory as the car also has timber inserts in the doors. I am not sure what others think of them but they are certainly not to my taste!
If anyone is thinking about an early Arnage I would have no qualms about recommending one. There will always be people out there who will tell you that it's not a real Bentley but then I would rather run 'fake Bentley' everyday than a 'real one' occasionally.
Instead I decided to buy another BMW engined Arnage and so begun the long slog to find a decent one. So many seem to have been either trashed, crashed or blinged up. I wanted a car with orange indicators and early wheels but was willing to restore these features if I found a Red Label look-a-like. I didn't want a black or silver car and I didn't want anything with a black interior. I also didn't want to walk into a dealer and write a blank cheque. In the end my patience paid off and I am now the proud owner of low mileage '98 example in black emerald (very dark blue) with un-piped cream leather.
The 4.4ltr Arnage is so much less fragile and I just don't worry about it in the same way as I did the Brooklands. I am happy to use it in any weather and don't worry about it getting a bit dirty. Yes, it is not as special as the SZ series cars but it is still an extraordinarily pleasant way of getting from A - B and even does so with relative frugality. It is fantastically smooth, more than adequately powerful and pleasingly quiet.
Funnily enough, my new Arnage has the twin coachlines like the first one I had and I think they break up the side profile well. I am at a loss as to why more cars didn't come with them. Sadly the coachlines weren't the only extra specified at the factory as the car also has timber inserts in the doors. I am not sure what others think of them but they are certainly not to my taste!
If anyone is thinking about an early Arnage I would have no qualms about recommending one. There will always be people out there who will tell you that it's not a real Bentley but then I would rather run 'fake Bentley' everyday than a 'real one' occasionally.
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