Bentley Arnage T at Amari
Discussion
Well it seems very overpriced to me as well, especially for a non facelift car. And what have they done in a week to warrant that kind of markup? Unless the auction was plus vat but then it was way too much to pay for a car at auction.
I don't mind people making money but that is crazy money for that car.
I don't mind people making money but that is crazy money for that car.
037 said:
Because people on PH really don't like anyone trying to make a few quid for themselves!
There's a difference between making a few quid and taking the piss - any other dealer whould have put it up for £35k. Also why should Joe Public line the greedy pockets of dealers when you can go straight to the source quite easily nowadays?Good luck to them but in a colour combination that isn't exactly popular with a mixed S/H and 5 owners it isn't going to sell for anywhere near even that.
These threads always amaze me. I'm assuming on the 29k they had to pay auction fees of 10-15% +VAT, they then have to put a warranty on it plus do any of the jobs needed to get it to showroom standard. They then have to pay for advertising, showrooms, staff etc. etc. This is all assuming that they get full price for it. Even if they get the asking price i'd be amazed if they make more than 15% net.
If you are complaining about a company making 15-20% net i'm assuming you never eat out, wear designer clothes, have a mobile, buy a coffee etc. etc.
People have the option of going to an auction and buying these cars themselves or they have the option of going to a dealership with all the benefits that brings.
If it is overpriced then nobody will buy it and they will have to lower it. If somebody does buy it they aren't being forced into it and they will probably look around the market so will think that it is a good buy, everyone will be happy.
If you are complaining about a company making 15-20% net i'm assuming you never eat out, wear designer clothes, have a mobile, buy a coffee etc. etc.
People have the option of going to an auction and buying these cars themselves or they have the option of going to a dealership with all the benefits that brings.
If it is overpriced then nobody will buy it and they will have to lower it. If somebody does buy it they aren't being forced into it and they will probably look around the market so will think that it is a good buy, everyone will be happy.
I watched this car on the Sytner Auction site with some interest, like many of the cars sold on there it fetched a hugely inflated price, in this instance I thought between £4 to £6K too much. The good things about the site are that the cars are generally as described, you can try the car before you part with your money and there are no further costs other than getting the car home.
The winning bidder, in my opinion, doesn’t know what he is doing and paid way too much and is now making the mistake of putting the usual margin for a car like that on top of the over inflated price he paid. As mentioned earlier he is asking 2005 MY price for an early car and, unless he finds a mug, will never achieve his asking price.
On the subject of margin on this sort of car a sensible amount will be at least £10k, sorry stats007 but you need a bit of education here. Assume your £6k example, straight away £1000 has gone in VAT, these cars are very expensive on parts and labour, with a basic service with a main agent or reputable specialist costing at least £750. I have never had one of these cars that I haven’t had to spend at least £500 on to make ready for sale and have had bills for over £5k on others, so work on £2K, a half decent warranty will cost a minimum of £500 so we are now at £2500 profit before we have even started negotiating/over allowance on the P/X and factoring in costs for rent, rates, utilities etc. Also I would usually expect to have a car like this for 2/3 months before selling it so the reward for the resources employed need to be good to make it worthwhile, the last but one I had I baked a cake for its 1st birthday and then blew a fortune.
Stats007 If you could have bought the car at source then why didn’t you, was it because there is no comeback or warranty which, from what I have read on other threads, is why you returned the black T you had bought as it wasn’t good enough? Amairi have stuck their neck out, wrongly IMHO, and deserves their profit but they are going to work hard to make it with that car.
The winning bidder, in my opinion, doesn’t know what he is doing and paid way too much and is now making the mistake of putting the usual margin for a car like that on top of the over inflated price he paid. As mentioned earlier he is asking 2005 MY price for an early car and, unless he finds a mug, will never achieve his asking price.
On the subject of margin on this sort of car a sensible amount will be at least £10k, sorry stats007 but you need a bit of education here. Assume your £6k example, straight away £1000 has gone in VAT, these cars are very expensive on parts and labour, with a basic service with a main agent or reputable specialist costing at least £750. I have never had one of these cars that I haven’t had to spend at least £500 on to make ready for sale and have had bills for over £5k on others, so work on £2K, a half decent warranty will cost a minimum of £500 so we are now at £2500 profit before we have even started negotiating/over allowance on the P/X and factoring in costs for rent, rates, utilities etc. Also I would usually expect to have a car like this for 2/3 months before selling it so the reward for the resources employed need to be good to make it worthwhile, the last but one I had I baked a cake for its 1st birthday and then blew a fortune.
Stats007 If you could have bought the car at source then why didn’t you, was it because there is no comeback or warranty which, from what I have read on other threads, is why you returned the black T you had bought as it wasn’t good enough? Amairi have stuck their neck out, wrongly IMHO, and deserves their profit but they are going to work hard to make it with that car.
Audicab said:
People have the option of going to an auction and buying these cars themselves or they have the option of going to a dealership with all the benefits that brings.
Interesting to know what these benefits are? I could have bought the car - sent it to a detailer and put a proper warranty on it for £32k all in. Why would I pay an additional £8k for a shiny showroom and a cup of coffee?My original post served a number of purposes:
1) Confirms what is common knowledge - Amari overprice their cars. Bentley would retail this at £36k with their own warranty.
2) Informs any potential buyer that this is a straight from auction car - funny how after a wash and a few smart repairs suddenly cars have 'provenance'.
3) Gives any PHer the upper-hand by knowing what was actually paid for the car.
[quote=buyer&seller]I watched this car on the Sytner Auction site with some interest, like many of the cars sold on there it fetched a hugely inflated price, in this instance I thought between £4 to £6K too much. The good things about the site are that the cars are generally as described, you can try the car before you part with your money and there are no further costs other than getting the car home.
The winning bidder, in my opinion, doesn’t know what he is doing and paid way too much and is now making the mistake of putting the usual margin for a car like that on top of the over inflated price he paid. As mentioned earlier he is asking 2005 MY price for an early car and, unless he finds a mug, will never achieve his asking price.
On the subject of margin on this sort of car a sensible amount will be at least £10k, sorry stats007 but you need a bit of education here. Assume your £6k example, straight away £1000 has gone in VAT, these cars are very expensive on parts and labour, with a basic service with a main agent or reputable specialist costing at least £750. I have never had one of these cars that I haven’t had to spend at least £500 on to make ready for sale and have had bills for over £5k on others, so work on £2K, a half decent warranty will cost a minimum of £500 so we are now at £2500 profit before we have even started negotiating/over allowance on the P/X and factoring in costs for rent, rates, utilities etc. Also I would usually expect to have a car like this for 2/3 months before selling it so the reward for the resources employed need to be good to make it worthwhile, the last but one I had I baked a cake for its 1st birthday and then blew a fortune.
Stats007 If you could have bought the car at source then why didn’t you, was it because there is no comeback or warranty which, from what I have read on other threads, is why you returned the black T you had bought as it wasn’t good enough? Amairi have stuck their neck out, wrongly IMHO, and deserves their profit but they are going to work hard to make it with that car.
[/quote]
Thanks but I don't need educating. The car hasn't had any service work carried out since - just cosmetic prep.
I'm not in the market for an Arnage - like you I watch auctions out of interest. I've bought a number of cars through auction without warranty or comeback - as you say paying the right price is the key. I'm sure you're aware Sytner staff bid on their own cars?
The winning bidder, in my opinion, doesn’t know what he is doing and paid way too much and is now making the mistake of putting the usual margin for a car like that on top of the over inflated price he paid. As mentioned earlier he is asking 2005 MY price for an early car and, unless he finds a mug, will never achieve his asking price.
On the subject of margin on this sort of car a sensible amount will be at least £10k, sorry stats007 but you need a bit of education here. Assume your £6k example, straight away £1000 has gone in VAT, these cars are very expensive on parts and labour, with a basic service with a main agent or reputable specialist costing at least £750. I have never had one of these cars that I haven’t had to spend at least £500 on to make ready for sale and have had bills for over £5k on others, so work on £2K, a half decent warranty will cost a minimum of £500 so we are now at £2500 profit before we have even started negotiating/over allowance on the P/X and factoring in costs for rent, rates, utilities etc. Also I would usually expect to have a car like this for 2/3 months before selling it so the reward for the resources employed need to be good to make it worthwhile, the last but one I had I baked a cake for its 1st birthday and then blew a fortune.
Stats007 If you could have bought the car at source then why didn’t you, was it because there is no comeback or warranty which, from what I have read on other threads, is why you returned the black T you had bought as it wasn’t good enough? Amairi have stuck their neck out, wrongly IMHO, and deserves their profit but they are going to work hard to make it with that car.
[/quote]
Thanks but I don't need educating. The car hasn't had any service work carried out since - just cosmetic prep.
I'm not in the market for an Arnage - like you I watch auctions out of interest. I've bought a number of cars through auction without warranty or comeback - as you say paying the right price is the key. I'm sure you're aware Sytner staff bid on their own cars?
stats007 said:
Thanks but I don't need educating. The car hasn't had any service work carried out since - just cosmetic prep.
I'm not in the market for an Arnage - like you I watch auctions out of interest. I've bought a number of cars through auction without warranty or comeback - as you say paying the right price is the key. I'm sure you're aware Sytner staff bid on their own cars?
Whilst it may not have had service work carried out yet it will want money spending on it before it is delivered to its new owner, but any extra costs can hardly be added on after.I'm not in the market for an Arnage - like you I watch auctions out of interest. I've bought a number of cars through auction without warranty or comeback - as you say paying the right price is the key. I'm sure you're aware Sytner staff bid on their own cars?
This car is not a good example as Amiri paid too much for it but my general point is correct. You do need educating as from what you have said you do not understand the retailing of these sort of cars, I do. Out of interest how much will you expect to make out of the similar priced boat advertised on your website?
It has crossed my mind that Sytner staff could mess with the bidding system and have asked the question before and have been assured that it is not possible, but if it were, anyone caught doing it would be instantley dismissed
A 30% markup in the car industry may have been typical in your era but nowadays there is so much competition from work-from-home traders and internet-empowered buyers that net profit margins are nearer 10 - 15%. At least we're in agreement that Amari paid far too much for the car.
The marine industry is in a terible state - you're lucky to make a profit at all owning stock. Brokerage is also suffering quite badly - very few charge 10%+ now - some opting for flat fees.
The marine industry is in a terible state - you're lucky to make a profit at all owning stock. Brokerage is also suffering quite badly - very few charge 10%+ now - some opting for flat fees.
037 said:
Why are you targeting this firm. many cars are bought at auction then sold at dealers! why is there markup upsetting you ? Who pays skicker price for a car these days anyway?
I'm not upset - like I said it's about sharing information. The other cars I've seen sell at auction have been retailed at sensible markups so no reason to post.Out of interest stats007 did you see the 125000 mile Arnage Red Label on the Sytner site a couple of weeks ago? I was offered that car before it was posted for £13000, I thought it was worth £14950 retail on EBay and be the cheapest one available so it should sell quickly and therefore £12000 trade, I went to view it to see how nice it was and when I got there the engine check light was on, could have been up to £1000 to fix. I walked away from it and they posted it and sold it for £15050, complete madness, I saw it on EBay for £19950. Do I regret not buying at £13000? No, because the margin is too thin and I maintain that to sell it quickly it would need to be £14950, there are other cars with half that mileage available for less at retail price. I just don’t understand why people are prepared to risk such large amounts of money for such a small return and the potential aggravation associated with it. My money would be better in two or three VW’s, Audi’s or the like which will achieve the same margin without the likely hazards involved.
stats007 said:
Audicab said:
People have the option of going to an auction and buying these cars themselves or they have the option of going to a dealership with all the benefits that brings.
Interesting to know what these benefits are? I could have bought the car - sent it to a detailer and put a proper warranty on it for £32k all in. Why would I pay an additional £8k for a shiny showroom and a cup of coffee?My original post served a number of purposes:
1) Confirms what is common knowledge - Amari overprice their cars. Bentley would retail this at £36k with their own warranty.
2) Informs any potential buyer that this is a straight from auction car - funny how after a wash and a few smart repairs suddenly cars have 'provenance'.
3) Gives any PHer the upper-hand by knowing what was actually paid for the car.
What you and others on Piston Heads fail to grasp is that not all people who buy cars spend every hour of the day thinking about them and doing endless research into what to buy, the benefit of going to a dealer can, to some, be many and that is why they use them.
You couldn’t have bought the car unless you are a dealer who has been accepted by Sytner to buy on the auction site, if you have been accepted and are a bona fide motor trader then why are you here sticking the boot into Amari and moaning about other dealer’s margin? If you and I therefore presume others are able to buy cars on there and you are not a car dealers then that tells us why the cars fetch such high prices as you see then as being a bargain at half way between trade and retail.
If Amari chose to overprice their cars then what has that got to do with you? Just don’t buy from them, simple.
Bentley dealers would not retail that car out of choice, it is way too old for them and they generally run a mile from them as the Bentley brand standards and reconditioning costs make it prohibitive. They may sell one if they are “trapped” into having to for some reason which does happen from time to time and I’m 99% certain they won’t make much money.
I don’t understand your agenda here, do you go on to antiques sites pointing out how much an art dealer paid for a painting at Sotherby’s and complain about their mark-up? I would have thought that as you deal in boats then you would have an understanding of how the business of buying and selling cars works as I am sure that there is some synergy between the two.
If I bought a car from Sytner, as I have in the past, and advertised it and found you criticising me for my mark-up and broadcasting to the world what I paid for it then I would not be best pleased.
In general, I believe it is helpful to post information like this. It is not only about the markup, but also about the overall history of a car.
BTW the "this car could be parked outside a mansion" blurb is hilarious and gives a good idea what kind of buyers Amari try to target.
I like the comment about rather selling 3 VWs that getting one's hand dirty with this one. When looking at RR/B ads on AT or PH some dealer think just because it is a RR/B suddenly all normal rules and mechanisms of valueing a car dont apply.
BTW the "this car could be parked outside a mansion" blurb is hilarious and gives a good idea what kind of buyers Amari try to target.
I like the comment about rather selling 3 VWs that getting one's hand dirty with this one. When looking at RR/B ads on AT or PH some dealer think just because it is a RR/B suddenly all normal rules and mechanisms of valueing a car dont apply.
I am not a dealer, have a Sytner auction account and have bought from there in the past. I see a number of cars entering private hands from the site so can only assume others do the same. It would explain why the prices are much higher than BCA etc. I came close to buying a Continental GT but the colour was wrong, it needs an 8-year service and the price was too high for the mileage.
I still think this sort of information is useful to PHers (who by definition spend all day looking at cars!) and will continue to inform where I can. An M6 sold recently and it's appeared with lower mileage than it was advertised for - should that be allowed?
I still think this sort of information is useful to PHers (who by definition spend all day looking at cars!) and will continue to inform where I can. An M6 sold recently and it's appeared with lower mileage than it was advertised for - should that be allowed?
stats007 said:
I am not a dealer, have a Sytner auction account and have bought from there in the past. I see a number of cars entering private hands from the site so can only assume others do the same. It would explain why the prices are much higher than BCA etc. I came close to buying a Continental GT but the colour was wrong, it needs an 8-year service and the price was too high for the mileage.
I still think this sort of information is useful to PHers (who by definition spend all day looking at cars!) and will continue to inform where I can. An M6 sold recently and it's appeared with lower mileage than it was advertised for - should that be allowed?
If you are not a dealer, how did you register on Sytner auction site. It is supposed to be trade ONLY.I still think this sort of information is useful to PHers (who by definition spend all day looking at cars!) and will continue to inform where I can. An M6 sold recently and it's appeared with lower mileage than it was advertised for - should that be allowed?
This is my first post, so apologies if I offend anyone!
Gassing Station | Bentley & Rolls Royce | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff