Bentley help - which is best spec?
Discussion
When the car was orginally launched in April 1998 it was called the Bentley Arnage and was fitted with a V8 BMW engine. This ran up until late 1999 when the Red Label was introduced with the original Bentley V8 6750cc engine and many other modifications along side a Green Label with the V8 BMW engine with the same modifications. I was selling these cars new at the time and I never saw a Green Label, all the cars ordered were Red Label's. There were in 2000 a number, about 20, parts bin specials that had the BMW engine and the other modifications but without sat nav and with the old original wheels. There was also a run of 50 Le Mans limited edition cars in 2001 which had various feature enhancements but no extra performance.
The Arnage T was launched in Feb 02 and the Arnage R in April 02, these cars were once again heavily modified and upgraded from the Red Label version and over the years until the run out in 2009/2010, prior to the introduction of the Mulsanne, were upgraded and there were various other limited edition models. No one cars is necessarily better than another as they all have good or bad points, It comes down to how much you want to spend and finding the best example that suits you.
If you would like anymore detailed help or advice then please send me a message and I'll try my best to inform you.
The Arnage T was launched in Feb 02 and the Arnage R in April 02, these cars were once again heavily modified and upgraded from the Red Label version and over the years until the run out in 2009/2010, prior to the introduction of the Mulsanne, were upgraded and there were various other limited edition models. No one cars is necessarily better than another as they all have good or bad points, It comes down to how much you want to spend and finding the best example that suits you.
If you would like anymore detailed help or advice then please send me a message and I'll try my best to inform you.
Edited by buyer&seller on Tuesday 26th July 18:22
Edited by buyer&seller on Tuesday 26th July 18:23
To be honest with the budget you have I would discount the Green Label as it is(in my humble opinion) the least popular Arnage model and the performance and character is lacking compared to the cars which use the 6750cc old school Bentley engine.The T has a lovely quilted interior and slightly better performance but IMO doesnt ride as well as the Red label,or indeed the R model which,along with the T replaced the Red Label.
If it was me and with your budget I would be seeking out the best condition Red Label and having a full inspection at a specialist before you part with any cash.I was in exactly the same situation 18 months ago with a similar budget and bought a Red Label and have not regretted it one bit.
If it was me and with your budget I would be seeking out the best condition Red Label and having a full inspection at a specialist before you part with any cash.I was in exactly the same situation 18 months ago with a similar budget and bought a Red Label and have not regretted it one bit.
Please forgive me for being pedantic, but as I said above there aren't any Green Label's. The BMW engine cars have been called Green Label but they were not named that by the factory and there have been many BMW engine cars that have had various upgrades to make them look like the Red Label. That might be the wheels, badges, the light lens and exhaust trims which are the exterior visual differences.
You will comfortably get a very good Red Label for your budget and you will also get an early R or T which had many improvements over the Red Label, but as I said before it depends on you, as an individual, which will suit you best.
I can understand the original poster's confusion as there is a lot of misinformation out there and many people advertising cars that are not correctly discribed. Once again, sorry for being a pedant, but I sold these cars new from their launch in 1998 until the 2005 model and there are many " curved balls " out there to deal with, so be careful.
You will comfortably get a very good Red Label for your budget and you will also get an early R or T which had many improvements over the Red Label, but as I said before it depends on you, as an individual, which will suit you best.
I can understand the original poster's confusion as there is a lot of misinformation out there and many people advertising cars that are not correctly discribed. Once again, sorry for being a pedant, but I sold these cars new from their launch in 1998 until the 2005 model and there are many " curved balls " out there to deal with, so be careful.
PJS123
I notice you are based in Yorkshire, we have a particually nice Arnage in stock at the minute and I would be happy to take you for a run out and discuss the range of cars with you. You can contact me through my profile.
They are a stunning machine to own, BUT you must buy a good one with proper service history.
As I mentioned before the Le Mans was a limited edition of the Red Label, there were 50 built, off my head some of the stuff fitted were wing vents, quad exhausts, different seats, badges, red calipers as an option etc etc. I have a brochure in my office but I'm not there at present. They were about £5000 more than a standard Red Label.
If you'd like send me a message with your contact No and I'll call you and talk you through it, my fingers are hurting with all this typing. Half the people advertising these cars haven't a clue what they are trying to sell you.
If you'd like send me a message with your contact No and I'll call you and talk you through it, my fingers are hurting with all this typing. Half the people advertising these cars haven't a clue what they are trying to sell you.
For a model that was in production for over 10 years there were a number of changes that took place, the one that most people can identify with was changes for the 2005 model year when the front end of the car was changed. Having owned a number of these cars (2000 Red Label, 2002 R, 2004 R - with 450 upgrade and a 2008 T) I can honestly say that the changes for the 2002 model year were the changes that made the biggest difference, although there were no big exterior changes Bentley spent considerable sums on the chassis and suspension which resulted in far improved roadholding which is noticeable to all that drive the car and these were major improvements that made a huge difference to the way the car handled, there were also improvements to the interior and seats. These cars are mostly registered from 02/02 although there were a few 01/51 cars about.
Thankfully mine have all been new or nearly new so have all been covered by manufacturer warranty, the running costs on these cars is huge and I dont mind saying that all cars have been troublesome, the 2008 car having over 20k in warranty work in the first year of its life, and everyone of these cars has left me at the side of the road more then once! however I am a big fan of these cars and feel that at 30k represent huge value, they are all individual and spec varies with the options list being bottomless, the 2008 car that we had had over 70k in options! so its worth looking out for one that was well spec'd when new.
I have had T and R but for overall ability the R is the nicer car, better ride, more comfort and a nicer blend of performance, the T is the better looking of the cars but the R is my favorite.
Condition is everything on these, if its not been looked after in appearance then walk away, the next thing is servicing a 2002 car should have at least 9 stamps in the book. and dont just take the stamped book as evidence call the dealer and ask whats been done, Oil service at main dealers are 1k and they will stamp the book, Hydraulic service is 4/5k and they still stamp the book, if you see what I mean ! so call and ask what been done and whats been replaced, these cars, well spec'd were over 200k new and dont like not having money lavished on them!
If I were in the market for one then the choice would be a 2002 Arange R with 1 owner and about 60k on the clock with full history,Dark colour and light interior, one that has been used as these are the better for it, keeping them locked in a garage and not used is the worst enemy of these cars.
One final point is always drive the car as they ALL drive differently
Thankfully mine have all been new or nearly new so have all been covered by manufacturer warranty, the running costs on these cars is huge and I dont mind saying that all cars have been troublesome, the 2008 car having over 20k in warranty work in the first year of its life, and everyone of these cars has left me at the side of the road more then once! however I am a big fan of these cars and feel that at 30k represent huge value, they are all individual and spec varies with the options list being bottomless, the 2008 car that we had had over 70k in options! so its worth looking out for one that was well spec'd when new.
I have had T and R but for overall ability the R is the nicer car, better ride, more comfort and a nicer blend of performance, the T is the better looking of the cars but the R is my favorite.
Condition is everything on these, if its not been looked after in appearance then walk away, the next thing is servicing a 2002 car should have at least 9 stamps in the book. and dont just take the stamped book as evidence call the dealer and ask whats been done, Oil service at main dealers are 1k and they will stamp the book, Hydraulic service is 4/5k and they still stamp the book, if you see what I mean ! so call and ask what been done and whats been replaced, these cars, well spec'd were over 200k new and dont like not having money lavished on them!
If I were in the market for one then the choice would be a 2002 Arange R with 1 owner and about 60k on the clock with full history,Dark colour and light interior, one that has been used as these are the better for it, keeping them locked in a garage and not used is the worst enemy of these cars.
One final point is always drive the car as they ALL drive differently
Thanks guys, all the info is very helpful.
Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
[quote=buyer&seller]Please forgive me for being pedantic, but as I said above there aren't any Green Label's. The BMW engine cars have been called Green Label but they were not named that by the factory and there have been many BMW engine cars that have had various upgrades to make them look like the Red Label. That might be the wheels, badges, the light lens and exhaust trims which are the exterior visual differences.
You will comfortably get a very good Red Label for your budget and you will also get an early R or T which had many improvements over the Red Label, but as I said before it depends on you, as an individual, which will suit you best.
I can understand the original poster's confusion as there is a lot of misinformation out there and many people advertising cars that are not correctly discribed. Once again, sorry for being a pedant, but I sold these cars new from their launch in 1998 until the 2005 model and there are many " curved balls " out there to deal with, so be careful.
[/quote]
Wiki does state:
"The basic BMW V8 Arnage was renamed the Arnage Green Label in 2000, its last model year."
You will comfortably get a very good Red Label for your budget and you will also get an early R or T which had many improvements over the Red Label, but as I said before it depends on you, as an individual, which will suit you best.
I can understand the original poster's confusion as there is a lot of misinformation out there and many people advertising cars that are not correctly discribed. Once again, sorry for being a pedant, but I sold these cars new from their launch in 1998 until the 2005 model and there are many " curved balls " out there to deal with, so be careful.
[/quote]
Wiki does state:
"The basic BMW V8 Arnage was renamed the Arnage Green Label in 2000, its last model year."
tali1
If you bothered to read my post underneath your first one, you will see that I said the Green Label was introduced in late 1999 along side the Red Label. The point I was making is that Bentley didn't make many, if any at all for retail sale in the UK, I have never seen one and I have been buying and selling these cars for the last 11 years. This is why they did the parts bin special I mentioned, to use up their stock of engines and transmissions that had not been used.
I'm no expert on wiki but am I right in thinking that it isn't always correct? If that is where you get your facts from I suggest you get another source as I have no idea what your first post is about, but I didn't feel the need to pull you up on it.
If you bothered to read my post underneath your first one, you will see that I said the Green Label was introduced in late 1999 along side the Red Label. The point I was making is that Bentley didn't make many, if any at all for retail sale in the UK, I have never seen one and I have been buying and selling these cars for the last 11 years. This is why they did the parts bin special I mentioned, to use up their stock of engines and transmissions that had not been used.
I'm no expert on wiki but am I right in thinking that it isn't always correct? If that is where you get your facts from I suggest you get another source as I have no idea what your first post is about, but I didn't feel the need to pull you up on it.
To be honest my understanding is that although when the Arnage was first introduced with just the BMW engine it was simply called the 'Bentley Arnage',once they decided to reintroduce the 6750cc engine then it was renamed the 'Green Label' and sold alongside the 'Red Label' for a short period of time.
In reply to the confusion over green label and red label they did indeed run alongside each other for a short period of time before the BMW unit was dropped, the factory invited a small number of owners upo Crewe that had bought new cars (Brooklands and Turbo R's previously and the BMW Arnage) to discuss issues with the BMW unit and the possible reintroduction of the 6.75, we were currently running a new Brooklands R Mulliner but had decided against the new Arange on account of the BMW unit although it was powerful it lacked the torque of the old engine. They discussed the reintroduction of the 6.75 to capture customers coming out of Brooklands and Turbo R which at that point were 2/3 years old and customers were due to change so the red label was introduced and the original Arnage become the Green label, although this car was soon dropped, speaking to the dealer at the time they sold no green labels as soon as the red label was introduced as the 6.75 suited the car a lot better, we kept the Brooklands until the end of 2001 before going into the R
If you have not driven one of these cars before be prepared, the drive and design is antique to say the least, our last car a fully loaded 2008 T felt prehistoric compared to the BMW 760iL that we were running as a day to day car, but the sense of occasion remains unsurpassed by anything, we have not bought a new Mulsanne as I personally feel there will be some revisions in the next 12 months so will hold off, I apologise now for offending anyone on here but we are currently in a Phantom but will return to Bentley when the Mulsanne is revised slightly.
If you have not driven one of these cars before be prepared, the drive and design is antique to say the least, our last car a fully loaded 2008 T felt prehistoric compared to the BMW 760iL that we were running as a day to day car, but the sense of occasion remains unsurpassed by anything, we have not bought a new Mulsanne as I personally feel there will be some revisions in the next 12 months so will hold off, I apologise now for offending anyone on here but we are currently in a Phantom but will return to Bentley when the Mulsanne is revised slightly.
PJS123 said:
Thanks guys, all the info is very helpful.
Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
Just renewed all of my cars but not with Footman James who bumped up my composite premium for a Mulliner Continental R, Maserati Quatroporte, 1972 BMW 2002 and a 2010 Mercedes A Class fro £1900 to £ 2666. I then got cover with Locktons who separated them out at £2150 with the Bentley and BMW at £1083 Footman James wanted £1434 for the Bentley and BMW. My cover was arranged fairly quickly so there may well be cheaper aternatives out there.Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
Paul
I used lockton for the first time this year for a Aston Martin Rapide, they were by far the cheapest and it is underwritten by Chubb, and I have just done a phantom DHC with them for £1900 in the last few weeks and again the cheapest, agreed value and under written by Chubb, Michael Dempster has proved very helpful and it appears a company built on old fashioned traditional values. I cannot recommend them enough
[quote=buyer&seller]tali1
If you bothered to read my post underneath your first one, you will see that I said the Green Label was introduced in late 1999 along side the Red Label. The point I was making is that Bentley didn't make many, if any at all for retail sale in the UK, I have never seen one and I have been buying and selling these cars for the last 11 years. This is why they did the parts bin special I mentioned, to use up their stock of engines and transmissions that had not been used.
I'm no expert on wiki but am I right in thinking that it isn't always correct? If that is where you get your facts from I suggest you get another source as I have no idea what your first post is about, but I didn't feel the need to pull you up on it.
[/quote]
My first post was sourced from my old car mags- simply telling OP the order of highest to lowest price Arnage -this gives a good general idea of which will be best specced -i don't know what is confusing about that as i made it pretty clear
I mentioned the wiki link in response to you specifically saying later (and it appears in contradiction to your first post) "but as I said above there aren't any Green Label's."
It seems i'm confusing you and you are confusing me -although i suspect your stance will be that i am the 100% confusion guilty party
Green Label shows in UK price lists and googling will show a few for sale -yes they are rare AND it may be they just show as Arnage on V5
Most of my sources are from my old car mags over 30 years - i use wiki just to quick check. Personally in all the times i have used wiki it has been correct- maybe i have been lucky?
Please check the wiki article on Arnage and inform me what errors there are on there.
[quote=2708420018][quote=PJS123]Thanks guys, all the info is very helpful.
Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
[/quote]
Just renewed all of my cars but not with Footman James who bumped up my composite premium for a Mulliner Continental R, Maserati Quatroporte, 1972 BMW 2002 and a 2010 Mercedes A Class fro £1900 to £ 2666. I then got cover with Locktons who separated them out at £2150 with the Bentley and BMW at £1083 Footman James wanted £1434 for the Bentley and BMW. My cover was arranged fairly quickly so there may well be cheaper aternatives out there.
Paul
[/quote]
Footman James were very very good - but since taken over by USA firm have adopted "Lets rip off those dumb ass brits " policy
If you bothered to read my post underneath your first one, you will see that I said the Green Label was introduced in late 1999 along side the Red Label. The point I was making is that Bentley didn't make many, if any at all for retail sale in the UK, I have never seen one and I have been buying and selling these cars for the last 11 years. This is why they did the parts bin special I mentioned, to use up their stock of engines and transmissions that had not been used.
I'm no expert on wiki but am I right in thinking that it isn't always correct? If that is where you get your facts from I suggest you get another source as I have no idea what your first post is about, but I didn't feel the need to pull you up on it.
[/quote]
My first post was sourced from my old car mags- simply telling OP the order of highest to lowest price Arnage -this gives a good general idea of which will be best specced -i don't know what is confusing about that as i made it pretty clear
I mentioned the wiki link in response to you specifically saying later (and it appears in contradiction to your first post) "but as I said above there aren't any Green Label's."
It seems i'm confusing you and you are confusing me -although i suspect your stance will be that i am the 100% confusion guilty party
Green Label shows in UK price lists and googling will show a few for sale -yes they are rare AND it may be they just show as Arnage on V5
Most of my sources are from my old car mags over 30 years - i use wiki just to quick check. Personally in all the times i have used wiki it has been correct- maybe i have been lucky?
Please check the wiki article on Arnage and inform me what errors there are on there.
[quote=2708420018][quote=PJS123]Thanks guys, all the info is very helpful.
Thanks dazzalse, yournpersonsl experience had gave me a great insight into the costs.
What's the insurance like on these? I'm over 50 and have 9 years no claim (though not claimed for around 35 years)
Currently got a good deal on my TD6 Vogue, £640.
What are you guys paying? What's the average?
[/quote]
Just renewed all of my cars but not with Footman James who bumped up my composite premium for a Mulliner Continental R, Maserati Quatroporte, 1972 BMW 2002 and a 2010 Mercedes A Class fro £1900 to £ 2666. I then got cover with Locktons who separated them out at £2150 with the Bentley and BMW at £1083 Footman James wanted £1434 for the Bentley and BMW. My cover was arranged fairly quickly so there may well be cheaper aternatives out there.
Paul
[/quote]
Footman James were very very good - but since taken over by USA firm have adopted "Lets rip off those dumb ass brits " policy
Edited by tali1 on Friday 29th July 19:01
Ok tali1, perhaps we are confusing each other, so I'll try to be a bit clearer.
The range of cars for the 2000 model was a BMW engine Green Label and a Bentley engine Red Label, apart from the modifications to brakes, suspension, steering etc the car gained as standard, sat nav, park distance control, power fold mirrors, clear lens indicators, new 18" alloys. I have NEVER seen an Arnage Green Label that came out of the factory with all those changes, and believe me I've seen plenty. Where it gets confusing is that there have been lots of earlier cars made to look like Red Labels, by changing wheels, lens, badges, exhaust trim. This with the earlier cars with, what at the time were, factory fitted options like the sat nav, power fold mirrors, park distance control and you can see how it is difficult to spot the real thing.
I did google Green Label for sale and all the cars that come up are 99 model year Arnage that are either wrongly described or been made to look like Red Label's. A 1999 model year Arnage ( BMW engine ) can be spotted by simply looking at the chassis No, the last three letters before the last five numbers will be XCH were as a 2000 model year it is YCH, a 2001 car 1CH and so on. It is the YCH cars that you will not find with a BMW engine, other than Seraph. The only reference I could find on line to the existence of a 2000 Green Label was Top Gear magazine doing a road test, so there must have been be one, but I did make the point earlier that there weren't any for retail sale and if there were I never heard of it. I do not count factory demos, pre production cars and mules as retail sale. There are anomalies, where the factory might use a car for development and use an earlier car with later parts and mods, it is not unknown for these cars to be sold to the dealer network and then retailed, like the 2001 51 plate Arnage R & T's that can be found and quite a few 03/53 Gt's as well.
If it helps you with your list,
RL Was the designation for the long wheel base car, 9" longer, I think.
LWB Wasn't called that, see above.
R Later car as previously discussed.
Le Mans Limited edition of 50 cars based on Red Label.
I am sorry to all if I have been confusing, which was the opposite of what I was trying to do as the original poster was already confused, I hope this goes some way to put the record straight and I'll just wait for the man who owns a proper Green Label to step forward, it'll be a rare car.
The range of cars for the 2000 model was a BMW engine Green Label and a Bentley engine Red Label, apart from the modifications to brakes, suspension, steering etc the car gained as standard, sat nav, park distance control, power fold mirrors, clear lens indicators, new 18" alloys. I have NEVER seen an Arnage Green Label that came out of the factory with all those changes, and believe me I've seen plenty. Where it gets confusing is that there have been lots of earlier cars made to look like Red Labels, by changing wheels, lens, badges, exhaust trim. This with the earlier cars with, what at the time were, factory fitted options like the sat nav, power fold mirrors, park distance control and you can see how it is difficult to spot the real thing.
I did google Green Label for sale and all the cars that come up are 99 model year Arnage that are either wrongly described or been made to look like Red Label's. A 1999 model year Arnage ( BMW engine ) can be spotted by simply looking at the chassis No, the last three letters before the last five numbers will be XCH were as a 2000 model year it is YCH, a 2001 car 1CH and so on. It is the YCH cars that you will not find with a BMW engine, other than Seraph. The only reference I could find on line to the existence of a 2000 Green Label was Top Gear magazine doing a road test, so there must have been be one, but I did make the point earlier that there weren't any for retail sale and if there were I never heard of it. I do not count factory demos, pre production cars and mules as retail sale. There are anomalies, where the factory might use a car for development and use an earlier car with later parts and mods, it is not unknown for these cars to be sold to the dealer network and then retailed, like the 2001 51 plate Arnage R & T's that can be found and quite a few 03/53 Gt's as well.
If it helps you with your list,
RL Was the designation for the long wheel base car, 9" longer, I think.
LWB Wasn't called that, see above.
R Later car as previously discussed.
Le Mans Limited edition of 50 cars based on Red Label.
I am sorry to all if I have been confusing, which was the opposite of what I was trying to do as the original poster was already confused, I hope this goes some way to put the record straight and I'll just wait for the man who owns a proper Green Label to step forward, it'll be a rare car.
Edited by buyer&seller on Friday 29th July 21:02
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