Peugeot 406 TD
Discussion
Long story short, my S4 is going back to the finance company so I needed a car quick.... And have just bought an R reg 406 TD for £500, it's got 250k on the clock but looks reasonable.
Anyway this is my foray into French bread so what do I need to know about this car (mechancally)? What do I need to keep an eye on? What needs regular servicing? What minor issue could bring the whole plan crashing down?
Any advice welcome... I just want it to run reliabally for as little money as possible.
Anyway this is my foray into French bread so what do I need to know about this car (mechancally)? What do I need to keep an eye on? What needs regular servicing? What minor issue could bring the whole plan crashing down?
Any advice welcome... I just want it to run reliabally for as little money as possible.
I had a '96 2.1TD, ended up scraping it as the keypad imobiliser packed up (could not find a cheap way of by-passing it, everybody I contacted about the problem could not help) and it was going to cost more than the car was worth. If you are using the keypad, maybe look into changing it (in case it does the same as mine) so that the imobiliser works on the key button. I think the handbook has the proceedure listed. Other than that, I ran mine for over 100k miles with no trouble at all.
Macey said:
I had a '96 2.1TD, ended up scraping it as the keypad imobiliser packed up (could not find a cheap way of by-passing it, everybody I contacted about the problem could not help) and it was going to cost more than the car was worth. If you are using the keypad, maybe look into changing it (in case it does the same as mine) so that the imobiliser works on the key button. I think the handbook has the proceedure listed. Other than that, I ran mine for over 100k miles with no trouble at all.
Unplug it while it's running. Its the only way AFAIKThe 2.1's a slightly more complex beasty but the same in principle. The 1.9TD's will go on as long as you really want them to. The turbos can start getting smokey at around 150k miles plus, depending on how it's lived it's life.
But keep the coolant topped up, make sure the rad ain't full of silt and you shouldn't have any problems. You'll lose the syncro on 2nd to 3rd gear before the engine gives out :lol:
If it's a Bosch pump, she'll happily run on veg oil too. If she's Lucas/CAV then she'll happily run on it for an undeterminable amount of time!
The only drawbacks on the 1.9TD's are the average economy and tractor soundtrack. Gotta remember that engine's been about since the Talbot Horizon, so 40mpg on average would be about right for combined driving. If you want to be hitting 50mpg, you'll need a common rail breed, but they're usually more troublesome.
Performance wise it ain't gonna set the world alight, but then that's missing the point isn't it? The gearing doesn't help....1st to 2nd is too big a jump.
Keep an eye out for rear arm bushes and leaky a heater matrix.
HTH
Cheers guys, I was hoping for a little more than 40mpg as my old Audi 80 did between 50 and 55 mpg (proved) but coming from an Audi S4 that only manages 18mpg it'll still be an improvement.
Apparently the second owner (from 3 to 12 years old) was a mechanic and it seems to have been maintained as such, everything is copper greased and well maintained, the gearbox is fairly nice and the engine less smokey than I expected.
Anyway a couple of questions:
Regarding the pump issue how do I tell which pump it is? Its an early 98 model Estate on an R plate if that helps.
Secondly it seems underpowered compared to my mates almost identical 406, is there anything obvious to check before I start looking for split boost pipes and the like.
Thirdly is using bio-diesel going to ruin anything? I can get the stuff for 80ppl so want to run it on that.
Other than that it seems like a decent enough car and shooting it with my air rifles is even more fun than I expected.
Apparently the second owner (from 3 to 12 years old) was a mechanic and it seems to have been maintained as such, everything is copper greased and well maintained, the gearbox is fairly nice and the engine less smokey than I expected.
Anyway a couple of questions:
Regarding the pump issue how do I tell which pump it is? Its an early 98 model Estate on an R plate if that helps.
Secondly it seems underpowered compared to my mates almost identical 406, is there anything obvious to check before I start looking for split boost pipes and the like.
Thirdly is using bio-diesel going to ruin anything? I can get the stuff for 80ppl so want to run it on that.
Other than that it seems like a decent enough car and shooting it with my air rifles is even more fun than I expected.
HereBeMonsters said:
Heater matrix, suspension bushes, CV boots and rust on the estates.
Performance wise - how many miles has your mate's car done? Is it definitely a 1.9 XUD motor? Check leaky boost pipes, turbo seals and fuel filter.
Mates car has done 220k miles and is definately a TD as well, its also a 98 on an R plate, only difference is that its a saloon. His seems to have been far more abused as well.Performance wise - how many miles has your mate's car done? Is it definitely a 1.9 XUD motor? Check leaky boost pipes, turbo seals and fuel filter.
There are two different types of turbo (KKK & Garrett) and the different pumps usually feel different to drive. The Bosch is generally considered superior. It'll be stamped on the side of the pump, or just pop a pic of it on here and I'll tell you which it is!
Your mates 406 might be the 2.1 12v TD motor. 110bhp vs 90bhp, but quite a bit more torque.
The HDi's will hit 50mpg no problem, but you have air flow meters, coded injectors, electric pumps etc etc etc....it could all go wrong. The 1.9TD doesn't seem as good on fuel, but in reality you shouldn't have any issues at all with it, provided it's been looked after and you look after it.
Bio-diesel wise, any will run on it but like I say, the Bosch pumps are better suited as the Lucas ones use seals that don't deal with veg oil and the like as well. It will work fine, but for how long is anyones guess! Eventually it'll kill a Bosch too, but I know people who've been running Bosch XUD's with veg for nearly 10 years now and no issues at all. In fact they're suited to it, as the fuel filter is heated (integrated with the thermostat housing). I ran my 205 and Xantia's on neat veg oil over a winter with no problems, just took an extra crank to get it started first thing!
Oh one more thing.....if it's smokey and lumpy when started cold, but still starts quick enough, it's probably only had 3 heater plugs done. One is buried behind the diseasel pump and most garages tend to 'forget' to change it.
Your mates 406 might be the 2.1 12v TD motor. 110bhp vs 90bhp, but quite a bit more torque.
The HDi's will hit 50mpg no problem, but you have air flow meters, coded injectors, electric pumps etc etc etc....it could all go wrong. The 1.9TD doesn't seem as good on fuel, but in reality you shouldn't have any issues at all with it, provided it's been looked after and you look after it.
Bio-diesel wise, any will run on it but like I say, the Bosch pumps are better suited as the Lucas ones use seals that don't deal with veg oil and the like as well. It will work fine, but for how long is anyones guess! Eventually it'll kill a Bosch too, but I know people who've been running Bosch XUD's with veg for nearly 10 years now and no issues at all. In fact they're suited to it, as the fuel filter is heated (integrated with the thermostat housing). I ran my 205 and Xantia's on neat veg oil over a winter with no problems, just took an extra crank to get it started first thing!
Oh one more thing.....if it's smokey and lumpy when started cold, but still starts quick enough, it's probably only had 3 heater plugs done. One is buried behind the diseasel pump and most garages tend to 'forget' to change it.
Cheers Kitchski
I will have a look on Friday (the only time I'm home when its light) and see what type of pump it has.
As for the starting it takes about 5 seconds of turning (more if its been left longer) but when it fires it seems fine, seems more like a fuel drain issue than plugs.
A couple of other things that are broke are the heater blower doesn't work, the lights all come on and hot/cold air is produced from the heater/AC but the blower motor doesn't work, I haven't checked the fuses yet but any other ideas in case it isn't the fuse?
Also the rear wiper doesn't work, again not checked the fuses.
Lastly the one thing I miss most is cruise control but...... this car appears to have a third stalk (under the wiper stalk) that looks like a Cruise control stalk but all the markings are worn off. There is no mention of it in the manual and it doesn't appear to do anything at present. Was/is it Cruise control? If it is is there any chance of getting it to work and if it isn't does anyone know what it is?
Cheers
I will have a look on Friday (the only time I'm home when its light) and see what type of pump it has.
As for the starting it takes about 5 seconds of turning (more if its been left longer) but when it fires it seems fine, seems more like a fuel drain issue than plugs.
A couple of other things that are broke are the heater blower doesn't work, the lights all come on and hot/cold air is produced from the heater/AC but the blower motor doesn't work, I haven't checked the fuses yet but any other ideas in case it isn't the fuse?
Also the rear wiper doesn't work, again not checked the fuses.
Lastly the one thing I miss most is cruise control but...... this car appears to have a third stalk (under the wiper stalk) that looks like a Cruise control stalk but all the markings are worn off. There is no mention of it in the manual and it doesn't appear to do anything at present. Was/is it Cruise control? If it is is there any chance of getting it to work and if it isn't does anyone know what it is?
Cheers
These cars do like to fracture fuel lines, so it could be air getting into the fuel. This tends to make them lazy starters, but run fine once they actually fire. It'll get progressively worse until you trace it, if that is the problem. The easiest ones to fix are the spill pipes off the injectors (loop from each injector then one back to the return).
The control under the indicator was probably a stereo control for the original radio (does it still have it?) Not many had C/C, but the ones that did usually had all the other toys to go with it, so you know if you had a plush one. If it didn't have it, I'd forget fitting it. If you're sick of the heavy lazy throttle pedal, you can disconnect the damper on the pump and the pedal gets light and springy, but some people prefer the heavier lazy pedal. You probably would too if you're sitting on motorways alot.
Oh....heater motor will probably be the igntion feed. Cars with climate control (has an 'auto' setting on the fan speed) run a perminant 12v feed once the ignition is switched on direct from the switch, as if the system needs to cut in to maintain temperature, it needs to have power ready to do it, if that makes sense? What tends to happen is people don't use the system, leave it set to fan speed 1 or 2 all the time and the wire burns out, sometimes inside the igntion switch. It's actually a pretty easy fix, and some people bypass the switch completely and fit their own master switch to supply power to the unit. The practical way is to fit a relay, switched by the exsisting wire (theres usually still enough travelling through it to trip a relay) and hook up a fresh 12v feed. This way it'll work like it should do. But if all fuses are fine, I'd bet money on that. If all fuses do turn out ok, before you do the wiring mod set the fan speed to 2 or 3 and check for 12v at the motor plug. If theres nothing coming through, chances are I'm right and you need to do the wiring mod. If there is 12v, the wire hasn't failed, so chuck 12v into the motor directly and see if it spins. If it doesn't, it's goosed. If it does, it's the resistor, but I doubt this as they usually fail by either working at full chat or not at all.
HTH
The control under the indicator was probably a stereo control for the original radio (does it still have it?) Not many had C/C, but the ones that did usually had all the other toys to go with it, so you know if you had a plush one. If it didn't have it, I'd forget fitting it. If you're sick of the heavy lazy throttle pedal, you can disconnect the damper on the pump and the pedal gets light and springy, but some people prefer the heavier lazy pedal. You probably would too if you're sitting on motorways alot.
Oh....heater motor will probably be the igntion feed. Cars with climate control (has an 'auto' setting on the fan speed) run a perminant 12v feed once the ignition is switched on direct from the switch, as if the system needs to cut in to maintain temperature, it needs to have power ready to do it, if that makes sense? What tends to happen is people don't use the system, leave it set to fan speed 1 or 2 all the time and the wire burns out, sometimes inside the igntion switch. It's actually a pretty easy fix, and some people bypass the switch completely and fit their own master switch to supply power to the unit. The practical way is to fit a relay, switched by the exsisting wire (theres usually still enough travelling through it to trip a relay) and hook up a fresh 12v feed. This way it'll work like it should do. But if all fuses are fine, I'd bet money on that. If all fuses do turn out ok, before you do the wiring mod set the fan speed to 2 or 3 and check for 12v at the motor plug. If theres nothing coming through, chances are I'm right and you need to do the wiring mod. If there is 12v, the wire hasn't failed, so chuck 12v into the motor directly and see if it spins. If it doesn't, it's goosed. If it does, it's the resistor, but I doubt this as they usually fail by either working at full chat or not at all.
HTH
Edited by Kitchski on Tuesday 12th October 22:32
Edited by Kitchski on Tuesday 12th October 22:34
HereBeMonsters said:
Dr Derek Doctors said:
s for the starting it takes about 5 seconds of turning (more if its been left longer) but when it fires it seems fine, seems more like a fuel drain issue than plugs.
You are waiting for the coil light to go out?Cheers for the help with the fan Kitchski, I will investigate further this week, there is already an aftermarket 'switch' plummed into the dash above the heater switch so someone may have already tried to fix it.
Having had another look at the third stalk a radio control seems likely as it has a '+ -' imprinted on it which is probably volume... and it has an aftermarket CD player so thats probably why it does nothing.
Edited by Dr Derek Doctors on Tuesday 12th October 22:44
This is the same heater motor as the xantia,the most common problem is the fan resistor mounted on the fan itself,putting a 12v feed to directly to the motor bypasses this .But if you want the fan to work on variable speed the only way is to replace the resistor,about£60 from GSF if memory serves me right
Heater motors seize because they eat little bits of twig and leaves when they're parked under trees. Remove it and bash all the crap out/grease it and it'll probably work.
Rear wiper is usually a knackered relay. Pop the trim off the inside of the boot (a handful of T15 screws) to expose the wiper motor and a blue relay attached to it. Pull it out, wire brush it and grease it then plug it back in and wrap insulation tape round the join. Boot leaks through the wiper = corroded relay.
Bosch pump looks like a UFO. Round disc thing. DO NOT run a Lucas pump on veg and if you run a bosch on veg be prepared to change the fuel filter after the first 500 miles then every 4000 thereafter.
These engines respond well from a good service and need it regularly. Every 8000 miles oil/filter/air filter/fuel filter. Cheap enough on bits however.
Avoid deep puddles like the plague. The air filter is in the stupidest place in the world and will suck up any water that comes above the bottom of the bumper. If you can be arsed fitting a pikey cone filter higher up solves this.
If you want performance for free google "stage one tune" and dump the particule filter and replace the backbox with a length of pipe.
Rear wiper is usually a knackered relay. Pop the trim off the inside of the boot (a handful of T15 screws) to expose the wiper motor and a blue relay attached to it. Pull it out, wire brush it and grease it then plug it back in and wrap insulation tape round the join. Boot leaks through the wiper = corroded relay.
Bosch pump looks like a UFO. Round disc thing. DO NOT run a Lucas pump on veg and if you run a bosch on veg be prepared to change the fuel filter after the first 500 miles then every 4000 thereafter.
These engines respond well from a good service and need it regularly. Every 8000 miles oil/filter/air filter/fuel filter. Cheap enough on bits however.
Avoid deep puddles like the plague. The air filter is in the stupidest place in the world and will suck up any water that comes above the bottom of the bumper. If you can be arsed fitting a pikey cone filter higher up solves this.
If you want performance for free google "stage one tune" and dump the particule filter and replace the backbox with a length of pipe.
Dr Derek Doctors said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Dr Derek Doctors said:
s for the starting it takes about 5 seconds of turning (more if its been left longer) but when it fires it seems fine, seems more like a fuel drain issue than plugs.
You are waiting for the coil light to go out?Cheers for the help with the fan Kitchski, I will investigate further this week, there is already an aftermarket 'switch' plummed into the dash above the heater switch so someone may have already tried to fix it.
Having had another look at the third stalk a radio control seems likely as it has a '+ -' imprinted on it which is probably volume... and it has an aftermarket CD player so thats probably why it does nothing.
Edited by Dr Derek Doctors on Tuesday 12th October 22:44
Kitchski said:
Dr Derek Doctors said:
Cheers guys, seems the pump is a Bosch unit so I'll see how it works on veg oil when I can get some.
This week I managed about 625 miles out of a full tank. Is this about right?
How much did the tank cost? That's pretty good going I'd say!This week I managed about 625 miles out of a full tank. Is this about right?
This will probably improve as I adjust my driving to the car though, I was still trying to drive it like a 350bhp Audi last week.
All in all I quite like the car though, just needs some decent front seats (there are some Pug 605 Armchairs on ebay near me), the DAB radio from my Audi fitting and a few electrical faults fixed.
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