Should I get a 306 GTi6?
Discussion
I've narrowed my next car choice down to a couple of candidates (hence the Clio 182 thread!) and the next idea that's come up is the 306 GTi6.
It would be somewhat more affordable - hopefully to run as well as buy - than the other cars I'm looking at (Clio 182 and Corrado VR6) and probably somewhat more practical. I guess my main concerns are finding a good one these days, reliability/maintenance and long distance ability. Quite a lot of my driving is long motorway trips and so something that's capable of being quiet and comfortable at 85 or so and returning a reasonable fuel tank range is important. My current daily driver is a bog standard mk1 Focus and I'm looking for something with at least that level of refinement, but with rather more fun factor.
Any thoughts?
Chris
It would be somewhat more affordable - hopefully to run as well as buy - than the other cars I'm looking at (Clio 182 and Corrado VR6) and probably somewhat more practical. I guess my main concerns are finding a good one these days, reliability/maintenance and long distance ability. Quite a lot of my driving is long motorway trips and so something that's capable of being quiet and comfortable at 85 or so and returning a reasonable fuel tank range is important. My current daily driver is a bog standard mk1 Focus and I'm looking for something with at least that level of refinement, but with rather more fun factor.
Any thoughts?
Chris
Chris,
I recently bought a Rallye as a daily driver. It really is a cracking little car. The engine is strong, rather than manic, but steering feel, grip and balance are all superb. The best bit is the ride - the stock springs and dampers just cruise over bumps and potholes, especially when compared to my old CTRs or girlfriend's Puma. I've had some work carried out at C G Cars in Leicester who are really good, might be worth giving Carl a call to discuss matters. Look out for cam belt changes every 40k miles. I did a full cam belt change, water pump, pulleys, service, tracking, front bushes and wheel balancing when I bought mine. Feels like a properly sorted car now. In terms of long-distance drives, well my other vehicle is an Elise so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment! What I will say is that the seats are supportive (but a bit squashy in the French tradition) and it's quiet and torquey. Fuel consumption isn't amazing, but not bad either. It cruises happily at 85mph and will have enough in reserve at those speeds to nip past most dawdlers without a downchange.
I was also thinking about Clio Sports but couldn't afford a decent one. Must say the Rallye has become a firm family friend. My missus loves doing tunnel runs through Leeds in it because of the induction noise. She's such a chav. I enjoy its honesty and the sheer poise. It's got such a clever ride/handling balance. Drop me a PM if I can be of any further assistance.
Andy
I recently bought a Rallye as a daily driver. It really is a cracking little car. The engine is strong, rather than manic, but steering feel, grip and balance are all superb. The best bit is the ride - the stock springs and dampers just cruise over bumps and potholes, especially when compared to my old CTRs or girlfriend's Puma. I've had some work carried out at C G Cars in Leicester who are really good, might be worth giving Carl a call to discuss matters. Look out for cam belt changes every 40k miles. I did a full cam belt change, water pump, pulleys, service, tracking, front bushes and wheel balancing when I bought mine. Feels like a properly sorted car now. In terms of long-distance drives, well my other vehicle is an Elise so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment! What I will say is that the seats are supportive (but a bit squashy in the French tradition) and it's quiet and torquey. Fuel consumption isn't amazing, but not bad either. It cruises happily at 85mph and will have enough in reserve at those speeds to nip past most dawdlers without a downchange.
I was also thinking about Clio Sports but couldn't afford a decent one. Must say the Rallye has become a firm family friend. My missus loves doing tunnel runs through Leeds in it because of the induction noise. She's such a chav. I enjoy its honesty and the sheer poise. It's got such a clever ride/handling balance. Drop me a PM if I can be of any further assistance.
Andy
chevronb37 said:
In terms of long-distance drives, well my other vehicle is an Elise so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment!
Hi Andy,Trust me, I've been there! My other car is a track prep'd Caterham, which I may or may not hold onto depending on what I get to replace the Focus (I figured I could probably afford to keep it with a GTi6, but probably not if I had something like a Corrado VR6 to maintain...)
It's interesting that you mention the Rallye. I'd sort of discounted it on the idea that it would be less comfortable on the motorway - doesn't the Rallye have less sound deadening than the regular GTi6 and a few other creature comforts removed?
Long distance cruising is one area where the otherwise mediocre Focus actually does rather well, so I've become a bit spoilt lately! The Type R comparison is interesting too - again I'd assumed these would be a little frantic for long distances.
I wonder if I could pick your brains with a few specific questions:
What's the service interval like and are they okay to work on?
Is it safe to assume most of the examples out there will need dampers and bushes refreshing if they haven't already?
How sensitive are they to mileage? Is there a point where major failures become likely even with the necessary belt changes etc?
Is rust much of a problem?
Are there any creature comforts to look out for - any models with better seats or the like?
You don't really see rusty 306's, and the engines go forever providing you change the cabelt between 30k-40k. They are very good, i had a rallye for 3 years. IMO the clio would be more fun, and better on fuel. But then the 306 is cheaper so. I'd have another 306 again, mine was very reliable, craved something a bit more fun after mine and got another 205.
Pop over to www.306gti6.com and you'll find everything you need.
Pop over to www.306gti6.com and you'll find everything you need.
Hi Chris,
I'll be honest, I'm not best placed to answer your questions - they're probably better posed on the form noted above. I've only had the car about 6 weeks so not had much chance to find out! If it helps, my car is a stock (aftermarket filter though) 1999 black Rallye with 71k miles. It generally feels fairly tight, but the clutch is heavy and the biting point's getting a bit sticky. I suspect this will require changing at some point soon-ish. The gearbox feels strong, but it's not a mega-short throw like a CTR, for example. Bushes on a car of this age will always be worth looking at and my car's composure at low and high speed is now infinitely better than when I bought it, following the work described.
In terms of refinement, everyone has a different concept of what is appropriate. I'm not "hardcore" in the sense that I value refinement, smoothness, flexibility and compliance in a car. Not a very "PH" opinion I'm sure but sometimes you just need to treat a car as a mode of transport...However, I think nothing of driving from my home in Leeds to Goodwood or Brands Hatch for an event in my Elise and doing the journey in a day. That being so, the Rallye is a fine motorway companion. It is communicative, pulls nicely from 3,000rpm in top and is quiet enough to allow meaningful conversation at speed. I did Leeds-Leicester-Peterborough-Leeds in it a few weeks ago in a day and it was great. I felt relaxed and lucid at the end of the journey. Sometimes the Elise can leave you tired after 300+ miles in one sitting.
The Type-R comparison is only slightly valid. The CTR is a much better engineered car - the build is on a different level and the mechanicals feel stronger. The seats are better, the interior doesn't rattle, the ergonomics are superior. However, they are much more expensive and the ride/handling balance on the 306 is far better. The CTR is stiffer, which is fine on smooth tarmac, but when you're traversing potholed roads (that is to say most of the time in the UK), the Rallye inspires loads of confidence because you get that little hint of roll as you enter a corner which offers the FWD driver confidence. It also means the tyres stay in contact with the road more of the time so you can use the grip better. I must say, roundabouts and twisty roads are brilliant fun. If you're used to a Caterham, I really don't think you will find it in any way hard to live with.
I'm sorry I haven't answered your specific questions - I can only really comment on my personal experiences. As I said, Carl at C G Cars might be worth speaking to. He is very helpful and specialises in GTI6s so will be familiar with any prevalent issues.
Keep us posted on your decision.
Andy
I'll be honest, I'm not best placed to answer your questions - they're probably better posed on the form noted above. I've only had the car about 6 weeks so not had much chance to find out! If it helps, my car is a stock (aftermarket filter though) 1999 black Rallye with 71k miles. It generally feels fairly tight, but the clutch is heavy and the biting point's getting a bit sticky. I suspect this will require changing at some point soon-ish. The gearbox feels strong, but it's not a mega-short throw like a CTR, for example. Bushes on a car of this age will always be worth looking at and my car's composure at low and high speed is now infinitely better than when I bought it, following the work described.
In terms of refinement, everyone has a different concept of what is appropriate. I'm not "hardcore" in the sense that I value refinement, smoothness, flexibility and compliance in a car. Not a very "PH" opinion I'm sure but sometimes you just need to treat a car as a mode of transport...However, I think nothing of driving from my home in Leeds to Goodwood or Brands Hatch for an event in my Elise and doing the journey in a day. That being so, the Rallye is a fine motorway companion. It is communicative, pulls nicely from 3,000rpm in top and is quiet enough to allow meaningful conversation at speed. I did Leeds-Leicester-Peterborough-Leeds in it a few weeks ago in a day and it was great. I felt relaxed and lucid at the end of the journey. Sometimes the Elise can leave you tired after 300+ miles in one sitting.
The Type-R comparison is only slightly valid. The CTR is a much better engineered car - the build is on a different level and the mechanicals feel stronger. The seats are better, the interior doesn't rattle, the ergonomics are superior. However, they are much more expensive and the ride/handling balance on the 306 is far better. The CTR is stiffer, which is fine on smooth tarmac, but when you're traversing potholed roads (that is to say most of the time in the UK), the Rallye inspires loads of confidence because you get that little hint of roll as you enter a corner which offers the FWD driver confidence. It also means the tyres stay in contact with the road more of the time so you can use the grip better. I must say, roundabouts and twisty roads are brilliant fun. If you're used to a Caterham, I really don't think you will find it in any way hard to live with.
I'm sorry I haven't answered your specific questions - I can only really comment on my personal experiences. As I said, Carl at C G Cars might be worth speaking to. He is very helpful and specialises in GTI6s so will be familiar with any prevalent issues.
Keep us posted on your decision.
Andy
Well I think I've more or less discounted the Clio and other suggestions. I reckon it's either a Corrado VR6 or GTi6. I had a drive of a Corrado last night (a friendly forum member I hasten to add, I wasn't tyre kicking) and I was very impressed - I think that perhaps edges on the 'heart' choice, but with its extra space and - I suspect - lower costs the Pug is the 'head' choice. I say heart and head - it's not as if I'd complain about either!
Anyway, will keep my eye out for a decent GTi6. Any suggestions where to find them other than the PH classifieds?
Oh, another quick question for any passing experts - what's the difference between the various phases?
ETA: Don't suppose anyone here has run a GTi6/Rallye and also a Corrado? Very interested to hear any comparisons, particularly in maintenance costs (not too fussed about fuel).
Anyway, will keep my eye out for a decent GTi6. Any suggestions where to find them other than the PH classifieds?
Oh, another quick question for any passing experts - what's the difference between the various phases?
ETA: Don't suppose anyone here has run a GTi6/Rallye and also a Corrado? Very interested to hear any comparisons, particularly in maintenance costs (not too fussed about fuel).
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 8th April 16:31
Hi Chris
Another 'S' owner here. Just got a 306 gti-6 and loving it. Needed tyres rear pads and i think new drop links are in order but there all cheap and easy to do jobs.
Have run loads of citroen ZX's over the years and i fancied a change.
Practical and fun
Rallyes are getting rarer so command a premium.
As someones mentioned get on the 306gti-6/rallye forums
Alan
Another 'S' owner here. Just got a 306 gti-6 and loving it. Needed tyres rear pads and i think new drop links are in order but there all cheap and easy to do jobs.
Have run loads of citroen ZX's over the years and i fancied a change.
Practical and fun
Rallyes are getting rarer so command a premium.
As someones mentioned get on the 306gti-6/rallye forums
Alan
Wiz said:
Another 'S' owner here.
Hi Alan,I wish! I sold the TVR a while back and picked up a Caterham.
I really miss the S whenever I'm on the road, but the Seven does make more sense on the track. In fact it's because there's less chance to use it than the TVR (no doors, no roof, no real boot on the Seven...) that I'm tempted to get something more fun as my sensible car. I could sell the Caterham and run something like a Corrado VR6 as an only car, but I'm hoping the savings offered by a GTi6/Rallye might allow me to keep the Seven on as a track toy...
I've not run a 306 specifically but currently run a 205 gti and have run a 306 TD in the past so I know my Peugeots.
35mpg seems to be the steady state fuel consumption, which I think is much better than the Corrado. I've driven both (although not back to back) and I have to say that the handling of 306 is in a different league. With nice new bushes all round they are so much fun to really push into corners - you can really lean on the front tyres where I found the Corrado a bit more understeery. Lift off over steer in the 306 is a hoot too.
306s are certainly cheaper to run from a parts perspective, despite all the 205 drivers clamouring for the brakes and engines parts prices are relatively cheap, certainly compared to VW where you have to pay quite a significant 'scene tax' on parts.
the gti-6 forum as mentioned above and the 205gti-drivers forum are both excellent sources of information/help and have some very knowledgeable people on them.
The corrado does make a lovely noise though! Although I liked the sound of the 306 too!
35mpg seems to be the steady state fuel consumption, which I think is much better than the Corrado. I've driven both (although not back to back) and I have to say that the handling of 306 is in a different league. With nice new bushes all round they are so much fun to really push into corners - you can really lean on the front tyres where I found the Corrado a bit more understeery. Lift off over steer in the 306 is a hoot too.
306s are certainly cheaper to run from a parts perspective, despite all the 205 drivers clamouring for the brakes and engines parts prices are relatively cheap, certainly compared to VW where you have to pay quite a significant 'scene tax' on parts.
the gti-6 forum as mentioned above and the 205gti-drivers forum are both excellent sources of information/help and have some very knowledgeable people on them.
The corrado does make a lovely noise though! Although I liked the sound of the 306 too!
I used to have a 205 GTI, so I've ticked that box! The best FWD hatches I've driven have all been small and French and from my distant memory of driving a GTi6 before it would indeed be more fun when you're on it than the Corrado I tried recently. However, I do think the Corrado has slightly more sense of occasion, so for the sort of relaxed cruising that I spend most of my time on the road doing it might be more engaging.
The big thing, as mentioned, is cost. I like the idea of a Corrado, but not enough to give up the Caterham and go single-car I don't think!
The big thing, as mentioned, is cost. I like the idea of a Corrado, but not enough to give up the Caterham and go single-car I don't think!
Hi, I'd echo everything said by chevronb37. I also have a Rallye, bought on 84k after a few months searching for a good one, bought the best I could find and havn't looked back. Fantastic car IMO and definatly a keeper. easy and relaxed on the motorway-it actualy suprised me the first time I took it on a long run, but it comes alive on the B-roads and just loves to be reved if your in the mood. Passive rear steer aids the handling and adds another dimension to the drive, for me its a perfect daily driver, not too harsh and not too soft.
I bought the Rallye over the gti-6 as its just a bit more PH for my liking, love the strips. Some would argue its not worth paying extra for 3stripes. Its also starting to anoy me not having electric windows but hey.
In terms of fuel, I get 400 miles to a tank, give or take, and at the current price of £1.25ish for VPower, It's costing £67 a tank.
I'd also recomend Carl at C.G.Cars in Leicester. I travelled 3 hours to have the cambelt done just because of the reputation and the previous owners have also had work done by him.
Have a look at a few, get a test drive and see if it suits you, I cant think of anything else for that price, 182's are still quite a bit more £ which is why I went the 306 route.
Good luck
I bought the Rallye over the gti-6 as its just a bit more PH for my liking, love the strips. Some would argue its not worth paying extra for 3stripes. Its also starting to anoy me not having electric windows but hey.
In terms of fuel, I get 400 miles to a tank, give or take, and at the current price of £1.25ish for VPower, It's costing £67 a tank.
I'd also recomend Carl at C.G.Cars in Leicester. I travelled 3 hours to have the cambelt done just because of the reputation and the previous owners have also had work done by him.
Have a look at a few, get a test drive and see if it suits you, I cant think of anything else for that price, 182's are still quite a bit more £ which is why I went the 306 route.
Good luck
306 GTi6's have a great chassis, handling wise they're superb, akin to the legendary 205GTi of course! A bit lardier yes, but no doubt more comfortable with a few more creature comforts!
On another note though i must say i disagree strongly with the reputation of the aforementioned trader in this topic. I've first hand experience of a car 'built' by him, wrong thread gearbox bolts wanged into a block ruining it, live battery terminals a fire hazard, flailing about in the engine bay tw@ing the brake lines after the battery was moved to the boot, and somehow this was all MOT'd like this, not to mention the dangerously un-balanced brakes... So no i wouldn't recommend him at all.
On another note though i must say i disagree strongly with the reputation of the aforementioned trader in this topic. I've first hand experience of a car 'built' by him, wrong thread gearbox bolts wanged into a block ruining it, live battery terminals a fire hazard, flailing about in the engine bay tw@ing the brake lines after the battery was moved to the boot, and somehow this was all MOT'd like this, not to mention the dangerously un-balanced brakes... So no i wouldn't recommend him at all.
I know what you mean the Rallye is a little more evocative. I probably still spend enough time on the motorway to justify the extra creature comforts of the '6 (don't they have additional sound deadening, for example?) but to a certain extent it's wherever a good one turns up. If a mint Rallye appeared at a price I couldn't say no to, then I wouldn't bother holding on for a GTi6.
So what sort of jobs do you reckon would be on the to do list if you wanted to refresh an average, say, 80 or 90,000 mile example? Cambelt is a given if it hasn't been done in the last 30,000 miles or so, but what else to tighten it back up?
So what sort of jobs do you reckon would be on the to do list if you wanted to refresh an average, say, 80 or 90,000 mile example? Cambelt is a given if it hasn't been done in the last 30,000 miles or so, but what else to tighten it back up?
I'd be looking at bushes and drop links to start with. certainly the rears get a bit chewed up, and drop links are a common MOT fail item. Other than that not alot, for peace of mind I'd be tempted to take the rear beam to bits to check the bearings and fit new seals but that's about it.
new strut top bearings maybe?
Not a lot else really, depends on the car of course!
new strut top bearings maybe?
Not a lot else really, depends on the car of course!
Hi I own and run C.G.Cars in Leicester if you are local you are more than welcome to pop over and take a car out for test drive, i always have one of them in stock and i am sure you will agree for the money they are just great, look up my website to see what car's i currently have in stock and choose one to take out if you wish.
Above comments from previous customers many thanks, as for Baz, i have never met you etc but you are more than welcome to your view's, lets just say a 20 year old 205 track car will not just have me working on it, maybe the customer done a few bits and pieces?
Mant thanks, Carl
Above comments from previous customers many thanks, as for Baz, i have never met you etc but you are more than welcome to your view's, lets just say a 20 year old 205 track car will not just have me working on it, maybe the customer done a few bits and pieces?
Mant thanks, Carl
C. Grimsley said:
Hi I own and run C.G.Cars in Leicester if you are local you are more than welcome to pop over and take a car out for test drive, i always have one of them in stock and i am sure you will agree for the money they are just great, look up my website to see what car's i currently have in stock and choose one to take out if you wish.
Above comments from previous customers many thanks, as for Baz, i have never met you etc but you are more than welcome to your view's, lets just say a 20 year old 205 track car will not just have me working on it, maybe the customer done a few bits and pieces?
Mant thanks, Carl
Hi Carl,Above comments from previous customers many thanks, as for Baz, i have never met you etc but you are more than welcome to your view's, lets just say a 20 year old 205 track car will not just have me working on it, maybe the customer done a few bits and pieces?
Mant thanks, Carl
You're my next port of call as it happens. I'm not particularly local sadly (in London) but I've heard a lot of good recommendations elsewhere too and might consider a trip up if you had something suitable in stock. Will drop you a line at some point.
Chris
i had a brief look for one over the weekend as its something i am considering for the CSCC tin tops series but i couldnt find any that were either not chavved up or being sold wihtout tax or mot and subsequently i am a bit more dubious about the history of the car. ok, i was looking at the lower end of the price bracket but it looks like you need to be spending about £2K which seems like a lot of money just to strip and throw away most of it when reasonable Clio 172s are £1.5K
Chris71 said:
pablo said:
Reasonable Clio 172s are £1.5K
Are they really that low these days? I know decent 182s are still upwards of £5k.I have a 306 Gti6 and for the price you can't get better IMO! C G Cars have an excellent reputation on the 306gti6 forum and there's usually loads of cars for sale in the 'for sale' section strangely, often well looked after cars owned by more than one forum member and you can trace the history of the car by tracking the forum posts which is handy. I've never used C G Cars, being that they're doon south and i'm in Scotland but dozens of happy punters on the 306 forum says a lot.
In short, YES, you should, but has been said, make sure it's had a recent cambelt swap, if the aircon works it's a bonus but don't expect to find many as the pipes feeding the condenser corrode badly and it's not exactly a cheap fix so many go without. It's been said if you're not sure which one you want you probably want a '6 rather than a Rallye, although now I've got a Black 6 I keep lusting after a white Rallye!
In short, YES, you should, but has been said, make sure it's had a recent cambelt swap, if the aircon works it's a bonus but don't expect to find many as the pipes feeding the condenser corrode badly and it's not exactly a cheap fix so many go without. It's been said if you're not sure which one you want you probably want a '6 rather than a Rallye, although now I've got a Black 6 I keep lusting after a white Rallye!
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