What is wrong with Peugeot?
Discussion
I was fortunate to have a 205 Gti when they were new and am fortunate enough to still own one now.
I've driven a 206 Gti, 206 Gti 180 and just recently a 207 Gti. The 207 was much better than the 206, but it is still no modern-day 205. Peugeot used to make arguably the best hot hatch of them all, and I can't see how they have got from that to now just being another also-ran.
What is wrong with them, have they lost their balls or what?
I've driven a 206 Gti, 206 Gti 180 and just recently a 207 Gti. The 207 was much better than the 206, but it is still no modern-day 205. Peugeot used to make arguably the best hot hatch of them all, and I can't see how they have got from that to now just being another also-ran.
What is wrong with them, have they lost their balls or what?
Its odd isn't it?
106 gti/rallye
205 gti/rallye
306 gti-6/rallye
even the 406 V6 coupe was an awesome cruiser...
then, nothing.
206, very average, no sparkle at all. Even the 180 not much good. And WTF were they thinking releasing a replacement gti with 20 odd bhp less than the previous generation and more weight?!?!?!
307,308, don't even get me started!!!!!
407 looks hideous and is s
te too...(apparently - haven't had the pleasure myself)
106 gti/rallye
205 gti/rallye
306 gti-6/rallye
even the 406 V6 coupe was an awesome cruiser...
then, nothing.
206, very average, no sparkle at all. Even the 180 not much good. And WTF were they thinking releasing a replacement gti with 20 odd bhp less than the previous generation and more weight?!?!?!
307,308, don't even get me started!!!!!
407 looks hideous and is s
te too...(apparently - haven't had the pleasure myself)I had a meeting last year with some fairly high up guy within Peugeot UK. After we had finished our meeting I said to him that I have an ultra original 205 GTI tucked up in my garage and if they decided to dust off the old tooling and start producing them again I know of at least 20 people who would walk into the dealerships tomorrow....
and do you know what his reply was.....
there's no market for that kind of car now - everyone wants airbags and sat nav units. FFS
If that is a genuine Peugeot France view point then no wonder their new cars are so ste.
and do you know what his reply was.....
there's no market for that kind of car now - everyone wants airbags and sat nav units. FFS
If that is a genuine Peugeot France view point then no wonder their new cars are so s
te.FactoryPilot said:
I had a meeting last year with some fairly high up guy within Peugeot UK. After we had finished our meeting I said to him that I have an ultra original 205 GTI tucked up in my garage and if they decided to dust off the old tooling and start producing them again I know of at least 20 people who would walk into the dealerships tomorrow....
and do you know what his reply was.....
there's no market for that kind of car now - everyone wants airbags and sat nav units. FFS
If that is a genuine Peugeot France view point then no wonder their new cars are so ste.
Its not just about air bags and sat nav. People want to buy sexy cars, with a cool image, and feel good driving them. There are no current peugeot models that are sexy, cool, and exciting. They need a REAL hot hatch in their range, this would help sell the boring cars they make. They should take a leaf out of renault's book.and do you know what his reply was.....
there's no market for that kind of car now - everyone wants airbags and sat nav units. FFS
If that is a genuine Peugeot France view point then no wonder their new cars are so s
te.mollytherocker said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Citroen are the "sporting" arm of PSA now.
Go on then, which model?MTR
I know from my 180 and what owners of the 207 gti that they are good cars that their owners love and are good fun to drive but you can't quite get away from the feeling that they have been produced as a response to the market rather than Pug trying to be an innovator. I don't think that peugeot want to be involved in the area of hot hatches anymore but because other manufacturers do that they have to put some showing out there. When you look at renault and their R versions plus options like cup packs, pug just don't do this. I chose the 180 because it sat well between the choices of the 172 and the type R. I don't think i would look into the 207 gti as a replacement. I find it silly though that they think this market does not exist considering their competitors have released the R26, focus RS, type R, R32, fiat have brought back the arbarth badge. Strange really.
I am interested to see how Peugeot will do through the current "economic climate".
IMO they're pretty well positioned - a very wide range of practical cars, very up to date, safe, refined, with lots of economical up-to-date engines. I think that's the perfect place to be in. They don't look very pretty but at least they're distinguishable. They've got a solid brand, and even the recent quality issues of 206 and 307 don't seem to have hurt them. Maybe the quality is fixed - Autocar's long term 308 didn't have one problem or dealer visit bar servicing, and if you read Autocar you'll know that's rare for any of their long term test cars.
It's all very well for us morons raving about things like the Megane R26R and Clio 197 (I think I saw my first one of those EVER this week, it looked brilliant) but those cars won't necessarily leave Renault in a good place when it comes to actually staying in business and selling some profitable vehicles - although the engineering learned can be an useful asset. And Renault will be pouring money into that F1 team...
Of todays cars I don't see a lot of hope for things like the new Focus RS - isn't it a bit late for a less economical, quicker Focus ST? Can't see Audi selling a lot of 580bhp RS6s either although that car did just about come out before the crunch took hold. The V10 R8 is looking pointless. Honda had to make the new Civic less advanced than the old one due to costs. VW have brought forward the Golf 6 because I believe the 5 was expensive to build. In fact last I heard the Passat was VWs only profitable car - can you believe that!?
So after this period passes Peugeot may be a stronger company than some of their competitors, and they could in 10-15 years time end up financially better placed decide to deliver some excellent cars once the climate is a bit more stable.
As an example, Toyota make exclusively boring cars but look how well they're doing - they've been pretty savvy so perhaps Peugeot have too. Or perhaps both companies failed to make hay while the sun shined by selling more expensive & sporty models.
I don't know if this is true as I haven't seen either company's budgets or sales figures but it's worth bearing in mind as we move ahead and it may explain Peugeot's lack of panache recently.
However they do seem to have lost the ability to give cars a good ride...
I do rate my 206 8v for the price, even if it's not up with the 306 handling wise it's somewhat better overall. The 306 is relatively unrefined and unsafe and you wouldn't sell any today. It just wouldn't stand up to Golfs and such. As for the 205... yeah.
Russell
p.s. I should mention I like the 1007 so perhaps I am weird. 107 is nasty.
IMO they're pretty well positioned - a very wide range of practical cars, very up to date, safe, refined, with lots of economical up-to-date engines. I think that's the perfect place to be in. They don't look very pretty but at least they're distinguishable. They've got a solid brand, and even the recent quality issues of 206 and 307 don't seem to have hurt them. Maybe the quality is fixed - Autocar's long term 308 didn't have one problem or dealer visit bar servicing, and if you read Autocar you'll know that's rare for any of their long term test cars.
It's all very well for us morons raving about things like the Megane R26R and Clio 197 (I think I saw my first one of those EVER this week, it looked brilliant) but those cars won't necessarily leave Renault in a good place when it comes to actually staying in business and selling some profitable vehicles - although the engineering learned can be an useful asset. And Renault will be pouring money into that F1 team...
Of todays cars I don't see a lot of hope for things like the new Focus RS - isn't it a bit late for a less economical, quicker Focus ST? Can't see Audi selling a lot of 580bhp RS6s either although that car did just about come out before the crunch took hold. The V10 R8 is looking pointless. Honda had to make the new Civic less advanced than the old one due to costs. VW have brought forward the Golf 6 because I believe the 5 was expensive to build. In fact last I heard the Passat was VWs only profitable car - can you believe that!?
So after this period passes Peugeot may be a stronger company than some of their competitors, and they could in 10-15 years time end up financially better placed decide to deliver some excellent cars once the climate is a bit more stable.
As an example, Toyota make exclusively boring cars but look how well they're doing - they've been pretty savvy so perhaps Peugeot have too. Or perhaps both companies failed to make hay while the sun shined by selling more expensive & sporty models.
I don't know if this is true as I haven't seen either company's budgets or sales figures but it's worth bearing in mind as we move ahead and it may explain Peugeot's lack of panache recently.
However they do seem to have lost the ability to give cars a good ride...
I do rate my 206 8v for the price, even if it's not up with the 306 handling wise it's somewhat better overall. The 306 is relatively unrefined and unsafe and you wouldn't sell any today. It just wouldn't stand up to Golfs and such. As for the 205... yeah.
Russell
p.s. I should mention I like the 1007 so perhaps I am weird. 107 is nasty.
Edited by Pentoman on Wednesday 4th February 15:22
Pentoman said:
I am interested to see how Peugeot will do through the current "economic climate".
IMO they're pretty well positioned - a very wide range of practical cars, very up to date, safe, refined, with lots of economical up-to-date engines. I think that's the perfect place to be in. They don't look very pretty but at least they're distinguishable. They've got a solid brand, and even the recent quality issues of 206 and 307 don't seem to have hurt them. Maybe the quality is fixed - Autocar's long term 308 didn't have one problem or dealer visit bar servicing, and if you read Autocar you'll know that's rare for any of their long term test cars.
It's all very well for us morons raving about things like the Megane R26R and Clio 197 (I think I saw my first one of those EVER this week, it looked brilliant) but those cars won't necessarily leave Renault in a good place when it comes to actually staying in business and selling some profitable vehicles - although the engineering learned can be an useful asset. And Renault will be pouring money into that F1 team...
Of todays cars I don't see a lot of hope for things like the new Focus RS - isn't it a bit late for a less economical, quicker Focus ST? Can't see Audi selling a lot of 580bhp RS6s either although that car did just about come out before the crunch took hold. The V10 R8 is looking pointless. Honda had to make the new Civic less advanced than the old one due to costs. VW have brought forward the Golf 6 because I believe the 5 was expensive to build. In fact last I heard the Passat was VWs only profitable car - can you believe that!?
So after this period passes Peugeot may be a stronger company than some of their competitors, and they could in 10-15 years time end up financially better placed decide to deliver some excellent cars once the climate is a bit more stable.
As an example, Toyota make exclusively boring cars but look how well they're doing - they've been pretty savvy so perhaps Peugeot have too. Or perhaps both companies failed to make hay while the sun shined by selling more expensive & sporty models.
I don't know if this is true as I haven't seen either company's budgets or sales figures but it's worth bearing in mind as we move ahead and it may explain Peugeot's lack of panache recently.
However they do seem to have lost the ability to give cars a good ride...
I do rate my 206 8v for the price, even if it's not up with the 306 handling wise it's somewhat better overall. The 306 is relatively unrefined and unsafe and you wouldn't sell any today. It just wouldn't stand up to Golfs and such. As for the 205... yeah.
Russell
p.s. I should mention I like the 1007 so perhaps I am weird. 107 is nasty.
Some very good points raised there! All of which i agree, but the petrolhead in me would like to see peugeot produce a hot hatch that doesn't just keep up with the competition but also beat it in various areas. The 206 could have done that if they could have been bothered enough. Don't get me wrong, i love mine, and with the TC turned off today i had a little fun! But wouldn't it have been fantastic to see if peugeot had produced a 4wd 2.0l turbo version of the 207, money no object for production. As a spectacle it would have been good to see because they certainly have the know how.IMO they're pretty well positioned - a very wide range of practical cars, very up to date, safe, refined, with lots of economical up-to-date engines. I think that's the perfect place to be in. They don't look very pretty but at least they're distinguishable. They've got a solid brand, and even the recent quality issues of 206 and 307 don't seem to have hurt them. Maybe the quality is fixed - Autocar's long term 308 didn't have one problem or dealer visit bar servicing, and if you read Autocar you'll know that's rare for any of their long term test cars.
It's all very well for us morons raving about things like the Megane R26R and Clio 197 (I think I saw my first one of those EVER this week, it looked brilliant) but those cars won't necessarily leave Renault in a good place when it comes to actually staying in business and selling some profitable vehicles - although the engineering learned can be an useful asset. And Renault will be pouring money into that F1 team...
Of todays cars I don't see a lot of hope for things like the new Focus RS - isn't it a bit late for a less economical, quicker Focus ST? Can't see Audi selling a lot of 580bhp RS6s either although that car did just about come out before the crunch took hold. The V10 R8 is looking pointless. Honda had to make the new Civic less advanced than the old one due to costs. VW have brought forward the Golf 6 because I believe the 5 was expensive to build. In fact last I heard the Passat was VWs only profitable car - can you believe that!?
So after this period passes Peugeot may be a stronger company than some of their competitors, and they could in 10-15 years time end up financially better placed decide to deliver some excellent cars once the climate is a bit more stable.
As an example, Toyota make exclusively boring cars but look how well they're doing - they've been pretty savvy so perhaps Peugeot have too. Or perhaps both companies failed to make hay while the sun shined by selling more expensive & sporty models.
I don't know if this is true as I haven't seen either company's budgets or sales figures but it's worth bearing in mind as we move ahead and it may explain Peugeot's lack of panache recently.
However they do seem to have lost the ability to give cars a good ride...
I do rate my 206 8v for the price, even if it's not up with the 306 handling wise it's somewhat better overall. The 306 is relatively unrefined and unsafe and you wouldn't sell any today. It just wouldn't stand up to Golfs and such. As for the 205... yeah.
Russell
p.s. I should mention I like the 1007 so perhaps I am weird. 107 is nasty.
Edited by Pentoman on Wednesday 4th February 15:22
TEKNOPUG said:
mollytherocker said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Citroen are the "sporting" arm of PSA now.
Go on then, which model?MTR
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