205 GTi to 306 GTi-6

[ady_GTi]

Been thinking about this for a while, of course shed of the week hasnt helped!

Anyone made this move or driven both cars? I like the 205 but mine has never felt completely planted which makes it hard to have any confidence through the quick stuff. Im happy with the speed, although i have made a few mods.

any thoughts?

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Agreed, my 205 has never felt that planted - I think it is to do with the poor weight distribution. My old 309 GTi, which was is significantly worse condition, felt much more stable. The 205 is pretty much running all new suspension (bar front roll bar drop links and rubbers).

My old 306D-Turbo: I didn't really get on with it as much as the 205 or 309. Didn't like the passive rear steer, made it harder to tell the difference between a back end slide or just a rear steer.

I find although the 205 is less planted it is more fun! Currently drive a 1 series BMW and the difference between that and the 205 is a bit of an eye opener...much more planted but not as much of a giggle.

Rob

[r1ch]

I had a 205, got a 306 gti6, and now im back in a 205

306's are great, just not as exciting to drive as the 205.

[number2301]

Could try a 309 rear beam? They're supposed to really settle the back end.

[Darkslider]

I've driven both and know what you mean, the 205 is a very light, agile and nimble car, makes for a great back lane and B road weapon but doesn't have the solid dependable feel of the 306.

Performance wise the two cars will feel quite similar, though I got more of a sense of acceleration in the 205 (1.9) but I think that might have been something to do with the tinpot rattling around me and draughts blowing through the doors!

306 will be just as quick, handle nearly as well but will be solid, comfortable, reliable and have a great deal more toys and luxuries than the 205. To be honest you can't really go wrong with a 6, they're brilliant cars in all respects.

[Mr Whippy]

106 GTi is the only choice, with a GTi6 engine

Dave

[bales]

Mr Whippy said:

106 GTi is the only choice, with a GTi6 engine

Dave

205 gti-6 with a 309 rear beam and wishbones with solid beam mounts - prolem solved.

[ady_GTi]

Cheers for the replys.

I think my 205 needs a general refresh but getting a bit fed up with spending money on it. Trouble is i guess 306s are getting towards that age as well?

Im running the 1.9 engine with the 1.6 box, great in the twistys but a bit tiresome on the motorways. Think the 306 would make a nice balance by the sounds of it.

[number2301]

Mr Whippy said:

106 GTi is the only choice, with a GTi6 engine

Dave

I'd rank the 106 easily the worst out of the three, 205 for sheer performance, 306 for a bit more comfort/easier to live with, 106 if you're too gay to have an old car.

[Welshbeef]

These cars are a little slow these days & really lack creature comforts & all will have high milages & be old.

Buy something thats say 5 years old and then run that - enjoy climate control aux in on std head units & totally std cars.
.

[Mr Whippy]

Welshbeef said:

These cars are a little slow these days & really lack creature comforts & all will have high milages & be old.

Buy something thats say 5 years old and then run that - enjoy climate control aux in on std head units & totally std cars.
.

Sorry to say it, but I think most modern cars are just full of useless crap that just adds weight/complexity and bits to go wrong. I think my MY2000 306 HDi has enough toys, cripes, my 1989 Sierra GLS had enough toys.
It's all relative anyway, in 2015 you'll be telling us that the MkIV Golf GTi lacks creature comforts, and to get a more modern hot hatch with four zone climate control and onboard broadband etc...

Buy a car 5 years old and watch it depreciate a load of money right in the middle of a recession that seems to be worsening. Fantastic choice

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 14th October 17:02

[mrmarkyb]

I went from a 309GTi to a 306GTi-6 a few years ago (2001, bought a 1998 306GTi-6 to replace the 1991 309GTi), which I subsequently ran for 3 years.

The 309 definitely felt more alive, more like you were part of the car... Having driven several 205GTi's before I bought the 309, I was glad that I got the 309 as it was a touch more stable without losing any of the fun of the 205 (well, except about 0.3seconds to 60 anyway!). The 306, despite the fact it is totally unrefined compared to most modern cars now, felt a touch boring and unrefined by comparison... But by god it was quick!

And I don't just mean in a straight line either... Just like the 205/309 the handling was spot on, lift off oversteer all too easy if you backed off too sharply. And unlike the 205/309, the 306GTi-6 actually came with pretty good brakes as standard (although possibly a bit over-servoed).

Had a lot of fun in both cars, the 306 was definitely a more practical prospect though (better mpg at about 30 on average, MUCH less wind noise on the motorway)... Though the driving position was a bit poor. My GF at the time had a mk1 306XS which had nice low seats with decent side bolsters, yet my mk2 GTi-6 had very unsupportive seats mounted about 6 inches higher, which always meant you felt sat up way too high in the car...

Oh, and in hindsight, the depreciation of the 306 was a killer for me... But that's going to be far less of an issue now that even the newest GTi-6's are 7 years old...

[Welshbeef]

Mr Whippy said:

Welshbeef said:

These cars are a little slow these days & really lack creature comforts & all will have high milages & be old.

Buy something thats say 5 years old and then run that - enjoy climate control aux in on std head units & totally std cars.
.

Sorry to say it, but I think most modern cars are just full of useless crap that just adds weight/complexity and bits to go wrong. I think my MY2000 306 HDi has enough toys, cripes, my 1989 Sierra GLS had enough toys.
It's all relative anyway, in 2015 you'll be telling us that the MkIV Golf GTi lacks creature comforts, and to get a more modern hot hatch with four zone climate control and onboard broadband etc...

Buy a car 5 years old and watch it depreciate a load of money right in the middle of a recession that seems to be worsening. Fantastic choice

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 14th October 17:02

I'd say 5 years is the right age to buy at - reason things like cambelt will have been changed likewise discs & pads & tyres should have been changed maybe twice in that period (driver dependant), also given that you can buy Mk5 GTI 5 doors for £8k thats 3 years- 3.5 years old I'd imagine that a 5 year old example will be around the £5k mark. Thats not a lot of £ for a hot hatch & it will certainly last 5 years in your ownership hence at worst £1kp.a. depreciation. Plus you have all the creature comforts & very good economy.

[Mr Whippy]

Welshbeef said:

Mr Whippy said:

Welshbeef said:

These cars are a little slow these days & really lack creature comforts & all will have high milages & be old.

Buy something thats say 5 years old and then run that - enjoy climate control aux in on std head units & totally std cars.
.

Sorry to say it, but I think most modern cars are just full of useless crap that just adds weight/complexity and bits to go wrong. I think my MY2000 306 HDi has enough toys, cripes, my 1989 Sierra GLS had enough toys.
It's all relative anyway, in 2015 you'll be telling us that the MkIV Golf GTi lacks creature comforts, and to get a more modern hot hatch with four zone climate control and onboard broadband etc...

Buy a car 5 years old and watch it depreciate a load of money right in the middle of a recession that seems to be worsening. Fantastic choice

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 14th October 17:02

I'd say 5 years is the right age to buy at - reason things like cambelt will have been changed likewise discs & pads & tyres should have been changed maybe twice in that period (driver dependant), also given that you can buy Mk5 GTI 5 doors for £8k thats 3 years- 3.5 years old I'd imagine that a 5 year old example will be around the £5k mark. Thats not a lot of £ for a hot hatch & it will certainly last 5 years in your ownership hence at worst £1kp.a. depreciation. Plus you have all the creature comforts & very good economy.

£100 pcm depreciation isn't that stunning. I guess it depends what you want from a car really. Considering like all hot hatches it's just a fast normal car, £100pcm is expensive imho, and the creature comforts are hardly creature comforts. Who needs all the toys a GTi has really? I manage to drive to each end of the UK in my car and feel comfortable, and it doesn't even have aircon...

As said, I guess it depends what you consider value for money. The next car I even think of buying that is near £100pcm depreciation is going to have to be more interesting than a powerful hatchback...

111S with touring pack please, enough toys for any normal person, and stunning looks/performance, and even BETTER one fuel

Dave

[Welshbeef]

[/quote]

£100 pcm depreciation isn't that stunning. I guess it depends what you want from a car really. Considering like all hot hatches it's just a fast normal car, £100pcm is expensive imho, and the creature comforts are hardly creature comforts. Who needs all the toys a GTi has really? I manage to drive to each end of the UK in my car and feel comfortable, and it doesn't even have aircon...

As said, I guess it depends what you consider value for money. The next car I even think of buying that is near £100pcm depreciation is going to have to be more interesting than a powerful hatchback...

111S with touring pack please, enough toys for any normal person, and stunning looks/performance, and even BETTER one fuel

Dave
[/quote]

But frankly a 10 year old Mk5 GTI will be worth more than £0 - I was simply giving the worst case scenario. So say you buy one at £6k run it for 5 years its going to be worth £2k/asking price so thats £67pcm depn.

But that aside - I would not buy a car without air con, nor would I want one without abs/traction control. Until I had air con I didnt consider it necessary - once you have had it you will never go back.

111s - cannot be compared to a 5door GTI totally different markets + try fitting a baby seat in one... then where does the wife sit? Not practical & very uncomfortable for say a 300mile journey - loud, road noise, uncomfortable, hard ride.

[Mr Whippy]

Welshbeef said:

But that aside - I would not buy a car without air con, nor would I want one without abs/traction control. Until I had air con I didnt consider it necessary - once you have had it you will never go back.

111s - cannot be compared to a 5door GTI totally different markets + try fitting a baby seat in one... then where does the wife sit? Not practical & very uncomfortable for say a 300mile journey - loud, road noise, uncomfortable, hard ride.

You gaylord.

ABS fair enough, but traction control?

OK, where does the wife go, well, not a car for three is it, so a child you'd need a McLaren F1

But uncomfy for 300 miles? It's all relative to what we find acceptable. As we move forward we just seem to be making bland turdheap cars appear to be the norm. Why are we such soft pansies? I'd rather feel alive than arrive somewhere feeling bored stless but comfy.

Dave

[Welshbeef]

The Mk5 GTI is well regarded as the best handling Hot hatches and isnt over powered.

[Mr Whippy]

Welshbeef said:

The Mk5 GTI is well regarded as the best handling Hot hatches and isnt over powered.

So if it's so well regarded for it's handling, and isn't over powered, why does it need traction control? Just sounds like a feature, like many on modern cars, to nanny cretins who can't drive, and so suggesting that other aspects of the car are there to nanny than aid the keen driver.


I'm sure it's a fantastic car, but if you just want a 'hot hatch' distilled down to the core values as best we can find, but without going to a two decade old 205 GTi, the 306 GTi is the next step imho...

Manufactured upto 2001, and for almost every single group test or challenge it took part in, in almost all magazines, from it's introduction to the final models, it almost always came out top!

Thats pretty good going, and you can get very good ones today for about £2500, and they are not getting to the stage where a well looked after one won't really loose much at all any more imho... though that low depreciation may be offset by high maintainance costs, but it's worth it

Dave

[Welshbeef]

Only available in 3door.
Also hugely expensive cambelt changes on it.

[Mr Whippy]

Welshbeef said:

Only available in 3door.
Also hugely expensive cambelt changes on it.

Arghhh

Cambelt is a bugger, but not a huge expense, just DIY... it's actually not all that hard to be honest. A HDi one is harder.

3dr, well, if you REALLY need 5 doors I'd just say forget hatchbacks at all, you are old and boring, buy a nice big Honda Accord

Dave