Discussion
Hi all,
My 205 has developed a misfire. I owed it to the valve clearances needing doing, which I did and this didn't cure it. I thought I had done it incorrectly so I had the job done by a professional and this has not cured the problem. He fitted new spark plugs and air filter. I have changed the engine oil and filter (as I do as usual) and replaced the HT leads. Replacing the HT leads has perhaps slightly taken the edge off the misfire (ie seems a little less violent) but has not cured it.
I am concerned that compression could be low in one of the cylinders. Although this was a problem before my recent tour of europe the 2000 mile journey was extremely demanding with hot weather and steep hills. It drank 250mls of oil which is an unusually large amount for this car.
It has done a shave under 150,000 miles now.
It still starts very well from cold, less well when warm but always does start...
Any ideas?
Dizzie cap/rotor arm/ignition coil next? I really don't want to spend too much money replacing perfectly useable parts if really it is begging for a fresh set of piston rings.
It also had the ignition timing done (£45!!!) a little while back although I can't remember if it was misfiring before then...
Any ideas greatly appreciated - I am attached to this car as it has never let me down on the roadside like so many cars I saw on those 35 degree days travelling through southern france! Better the devil you know...
My 205 has developed a misfire. I owed it to the valve clearances needing doing, which I did and this didn't cure it. I thought I had done it incorrectly so I had the job done by a professional and this has not cured the problem. He fitted new spark plugs and air filter. I have changed the engine oil and filter (as I do as usual) and replaced the HT leads. Replacing the HT leads has perhaps slightly taken the edge off the misfire (ie seems a little less violent) but has not cured it.
I am concerned that compression could be low in one of the cylinders. Although this was a problem before my recent tour of europe the 2000 mile journey was extremely demanding with hot weather and steep hills. It drank 250mls of oil which is an unusually large amount for this car.
It has done a shave under 150,000 miles now.
It still starts very well from cold, less well when warm but always does start...
Any ideas?
Dizzie cap/rotor arm/ignition coil next? I really don't want to spend too much money replacing perfectly useable parts if really it is begging for a fresh set of piston rings.
It also had the ignition timing done (£45!!!) a little while back although I can't remember if it was misfiring before then...
Any ideas greatly appreciated - I am attached to this car as it has never let me down on the roadside like so many cars I saw on those 35 degree days travelling through southern france! Better the devil you know...
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your prompt response.
Well, I suggested that it may have low compression, by process of deduction im fearful that this may be the case. I am not a professional mechanic but I have a reasonable understanding of how engine's work even if I have to play catch up in the practical skills department. When I had a 2 stroke 50 it lasted very well - i sold it on in good condition - thanks in part to replacing the head gasket. Everyone else I knew seemed to have 'unreliable' cars or bikes. I am mechanically sympathetic and as such this problem is frustrating me as I have not been able to pinpoint it as yet.
I had the coolant overheat light come on while i was driving down south and so blowing the hot air into the car and removing the front grill helped keep that off. However my car has limped home with a leaking heatermatrix, I have flushed the coolant system and replaced the coolant, added rad weld and the light has not come on since. Amen to that. however the radweld has not worked. Maybe it will take a week or so.
Thanks for your prompt response.
Well, I suggested that it may have low compression, by process of deduction im fearful that this may be the case. I am not a professional mechanic but I have a reasonable understanding of how engine's work even if I have to play catch up in the practical skills department. When I had a 2 stroke 50 it lasted very well - i sold it on in good condition - thanks in part to replacing the head gasket. Everyone else I knew seemed to have 'unreliable' cars or bikes. I am mechanically sympathetic and as such this problem is frustrating me as I have not been able to pinpoint it as yet.
I had the coolant overheat light come on while i was driving down south and so blowing the hot air into the car and removing the front grill helped keep that off. However my car has limped home with a leaking heatermatrix, I have flushed the coolant system and replaced the coolant, added rad weld and the light has not come on since. Amen to that. however the radweld has not worked. Maybe it will take a week or so.
It is not using a lot of oil on a persistent basis, I think the high temperateure and demanding driving caused the oi to thin excessively and may have ended up passing the piston rings. However it seems to be not drinking hardly any now.
I have no idea if at some point a valve has got burnt - the clearances were never tight, they were a little loose but hard to improve on owing to worn screws - switch-like.
The peugeot specialist down the road said this car is good for 180,000-200,000 miles. But I guess this assumes the good running of the engine. It doesn't feel underpowered or excessively noisy which makes me think it might be an electrical hick-up as opposed to anything major. Also getting very good mpg - about 40 day to day, 48 on long trips...But maybe it would do another 5 or 10 if this misfire was sorted. incidently it is only really discernable at idle.
I have no idea if at some point a valve has got burnt - the clearances were never tight, they were a little loose but hard to improve on owing to worn screws - switch-like.
The peugeot specialist down the road said this car is good for 180,000-200,000 miles. But I guess this assumes the good running of the engine. It doesn't feel underpowered or excessively noisy which makes me think it might be an electrical hick-up as opposed to anything major. Also getting very good mpg - about 40 day to day, 48 on long trips...But maybe it would do another 5 or 10 if this misfire was sorted. incidently it is only really discernable at idle.
Mikey G said:
How much lower is the compression on that low cylinder?
If the valve clearances were tight before it may be a burnt valve. If it's using a lot of oil it sounds like time for a rebuild as 150k is a very good innings for this engine.
i noted you have owned an sv650. I have a blue sv650s. They are the eprfect balance between fast and economical...If the valve clearances were tight before it may be a burnt valve. If it's using a lot of oil it sounds like time for a rebuild as 150k is a very good innings for this engine.
If the ignition system is in good order, and your still getting good fuel consumption, then it looks more like a cylinder is running low compression.
I would take 180k+ miles with a pinch of salt, its a small unit and will be more stressed than a larger engine, but they dont suffer the same problems as the XU canted back engine with regards to rings and burning oil. But still at 150k this is really getting on for an old engine.
I would seriously get someone to do a compression test and see what they say.
I had the SV650s, would buy another today if i had the money
I would take 180k+ miles with a pinch of salt, its a small unit and will be more stressed than a larger engine, but they dont suffer the same problems as the XU canted back engine with regards to rings and burning oil. But still at 150k this is really getting on for an old engine.
I would seriously get someone to do a compression test and see what they say.
I had the SV650s, would buy another today if i had the money
I expect I shall have to get this job done professionally as I do not have compression gauges. However, what is an acceptable discrepancy between the readings. I have the haynes manual (very good) but I don't know if it has compression figures in it I shall look now. I might also point out that I am fanatical about oil changes and warming up the car before using its performance (ok you laugh, what performance?). This is probably due to starting out with a 2 stroke bike...
I know how the job is done but what should I expect to pay - an hour's labour or 1/2 hour? If the reading is below par should I expect them to carry out a wet compression test to ascertain which parts of the engine are most worn?
This sounds like a lot of trouble I know but I am a poor student. At least I can be thankful that I find engines interesting! And that this car has cost me very little in terms of looking after. My friend bought a Clio, 04 plate, 50k - needed new throttle sensor and a new ecu as it screwed up. £300 bill for him. since when was a cable no good? I understand the benefit of ecu's but £120 for a throttle sensor! he had to cough up, poor sod.
I know how the job is done but what should I expect to pay - an hour's labour or 1/2 hour? If the reading is below par should I expect them to carry out a wet compression test to ascertain which parts of the engine are most worn?
This sounds like a lot of trouble I know but I am a poor student. At least I can be thankful that I find engines interesting! And that this car has cost me very little in terms of looking after. My friend bought a Clio, 04 plate, 50k - needed new throttle sensor and a new ecu as it screwed up. £300 bill for him. since when was a cable no good? I understand the benefit of ecu's but £120 for a throttle sensor! he had to cough up, poor sod.
Edited by Uberloin on Thursday 10th July 00:18
You may notice the problem cylinder's spark plug will be slightly darker either due to oil or unburnt fuel being deposited on it. It probably wont show a burnt valve though.
A compression test shouldnt cost much to get done, anyone who knows what they are doing will do both dry then a wet test. It may show that the piston rings are ok and the problem is either a valve or headgasket giving lower compression.
A compression test shouldnt cost much to get done, anyone who knows what they are doing will do both dry then a wet test. It may show that the piston rings are ok and the problem is either a valve or headgasket giving lower compression.
Hi there.
A very good friend of mine who is a classic car specialist spared me some gauges and examined my distributor cap. I bought replacement arm and cap but the idot at halfords sold me the wrong size ones even having got him to come and compare the one one there with the one he supplied me. Anyhow, my friend lent me a compression gauge and I dry tested it, the results are as follows:
I wrote it up formally to go in my cars service history.
Compression Test Results
Car: Peugeot 205 1124cc Carb.
Date: 11/7/08
Mileage: 149,784
Cylinder No: Pressure Reading (Psi): Pressure Drop:
One 105
110
120
Av. (Mean): 111.7 NONE
Two 110
110
120
Av. (Mean): 113.3 NONE
Three 115
120
115
Av. (Mean): 116.7 NONE
Four 120 No
120 Slow Drop
120 Slow Drop
120 15 secs to 0
Av. (Mean): 120
Discrepancy between highest and lowest average: 7.43%
Verdict: Healthy engine. Cylinder 4 most likely appeared lose compression on subsequent tests due to imperfect gauge connection. The fact that initial test yielded a strong result (and in fact the strongest result of all 4 cylinders supports this.
A very good friend of mine who is a classic car specialist spared me some gauges and examined my distributor cap. I bought replacement arm and cap but the idot at halfords sold me the wrong size ones even having got him to come and compare the one one there with the one he supplied me. Anyhow, my friend lent me a compression gauge and I dry tested it, the results are as follows:
I wrote it up formally to go in my cars service history.
Compression Test Results
Car: Peugeot 205 1124cc Carb.
Date: 11/7/08
Mileage: 149,784
Cylinder No: Pressure Reading (Psi): Pressure Drop:
One 105
110
120
Av. (Mean): 111.7 NONE
Two 110
110
120
Av. (Mean): 113.3 NONE
Three 115
120
115
Av. (Mean): 116.7 NONE
Four 120 No
120 Slow Drop
120 Slow Drop
120 15 secs to 0
Av. (Mean): 120
Discrepancy between highest and lowest average: 7.43%
Verdict: Healthy engine. Cylinder 4 most likely appeared lose compression on subsequent tests due to imperfect gauge connection. The fact that initial test yielded a strong result (and in fact the strongest result of all 4 cylinders supports this.
Sorry that it has not displayed the results in a grid. Anyhow, i inspected the dizzy cap and rotor arm. The cap is, in his own words: "absolutely f'd, can't believe it even runs".
Let's hope replacing this helps although I've given the cap and arm a good clean/fine sand for the meantime.
Charles
Let's hope replacing this helps although I've given the cap and arm a good clean/fine sand for the meantime.
Charles
Mikey G said:
Thats a result then, its surprising what looks to one person may be good but someone else will show up a potential problem. Would have thought the dizzy and rotor arm would be one of the first port of calls anyway.
Hopefully a new one will sort it then
Why, would that data set imply a problem to you? It is certainly curious how the average reading of each cylinder is progressively 'worse' from 1-4. Perhaps this is normal?Hopefully a new one will sort it then
Having run the car again; it feels a bit odd. If you blip the throttle when it is cold, it returns to below idle and nearly dies, then returns back to level again. Cleaning the old cap and arm may have only exacerbated the problem. the contacts are very worn - it has cut a bass clef shap profile out of 2 of the protruding contacts lol. maybe sanding them has weakened it. Still a new one tomorrow if I can track down the correct one! Sounds wierd - almost like a metallic sound coming from underneath the car. :-S
Probably just cold - I hope!
Incidently, I don't actually know what compression figures I should be expecting, however, having read the newer haynes manual online I'm concerned that maybe the engine is not so healthy.
http://www.elmotor.net/manuales/Haynes%20Peugeot%2...
Chapter 2A states that increased pressure on the second stroke indicates worn piston rings. On some of the tests it went to about 70, then 110 psi...sometimes not...oh dear.
I did not wet test as the moment i showed him these figures he said it was good. He is probably looking at this forum and smiling :-)
They say also any cylinder running below 10 bar (145psi) should be considered unhealthy...gulp.
http://www.elmotor.net/manuales/Haynes%20Peugeot%2...
Chapter 2A states that increased pressure on the second stroke indicates worn piston rings. On some of the tests it went to about 70, then 110 psi...sometimes not...oh dear.
I did not wet test as the moment i showed him these figures he said it was good. He is probably looking at this forum and smiling :-)
They say also any cylinder running below 10 bar (145psi) should be considered unhealthy...gulp.
Edited by Uberloin on Thursday 10th July 22:57
Incidently, I don't actually know what compression figures I should be expecting, however, having read the newer haynes manual online I'm concerned that maybe the engine is not so healthy.
http://www.elmotor.net/manuales/Haynes%20Peugeot%2...
Chapter 2A states that increased pressure on the second stroke indicates worn piston rings. On some of the tests it went to about 70, then 110 psi...sometimes not...oh dear.
I did not wet test as the moment i showed him these figures he said it was good. He is probably looking at this forum and smiling :-)
http://www.elmotor.net/manuales/Haynes%20Peugeot%2...
Chapter 2A states that increased pressure on the second stroke indicates worn piston rings. On some of the tests it went to about 70, then 110 psi...sometimes not...oh dear.
I did not wet test as the moment i showed him these figures he said it was good. He is probably looking at this forum and smiling :-)
Edited by Uberloin on Thursday 10th July 23:36
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