205 GTi front springs - what's the lowest and hardest?

[sniff petrol]

I could do with some stiffer and lower front springs though I think. It's already fitted with some Purple Spax springs and AVO dampers but I want to drop and stiffen it right up. My first dry trackday in it the other week showed some alarming roll, although that was on the standard 205 wishbones, it now has 309 GTi wishbones if that makes any difference.

What's the lowest I can go? This is what it looks like at the front on a level surface, there's about 70mm from the top of the tyre to the bottom of the arch trim:

Edited by sniff petrol on Saturday 17th May 14:51

[Atari Boy]

40 mm drop is best, anything else is too low.

[RT106]

What's wrong with a bit of roll? Doesn't look too bad.

If you just stiffen the front disproportionately to the back you'll end up with an understeering mess.

[Simes205]

Going any lower than the normal 30mm will not be that good. Driveshafts will be at the wrong angle.

Try Eibach 7004 springs.

[busta]

Do you use it on the road much? If not then you can afford to go a bit lower than people would normally suggest for a road car. Eibachs are the one's to have on tracked 106s, normally -50mm. Don't know about 205s but they're pretty similar in most respects.

[andye30m3]

I use 275lb faulker springs on Leda shocks, seams to work well on the track, not so hot on the road

[the_stoat]

In my experience do not go any lower than about 35mm. As Simes says lower than this you get weird alignments and 'interesting' handling on anything other than perfectly smooth tarmac.

[screwloose]

I too run 275lb springs but with Bilstein shocks and its far too hard for the road. Unless of course if the road is super smooth, preferably new and dry tarmac!
Good/sticky tyres are recommended if you go stiffer.

[sniff petrol]

RT106 said:

What's wrong with a bit of roll? Doesn't look too bad.

If you just stiffen the front disproportionately to the back you'll end up with an understeering mess.

Had a ride in an ex-racecar E30 a few weeks back - being so stiff it didn't have to slow for corners much. Would love to make mine handle as well as that.

I haven't tried my 205 on track yet since I've fitted the 309 GTi wishbones and rear beam so will probably wait and see how it handles with those for now.

One thing does lowering the rear beam make it any stiffer?

[Simes205]

sniff petrol said:

RT106 said:

What's wrong with a bit of roll? Doesn't look too bad.

If you just stiffen the front disproportionately to the back you'll end up with an understeering mess.

Had a ride in an ex-racecar E30 a few weeks back - being so stiff it didn't have to slow for corners much. Would love to make mine handle as well as that.

I haven't tried my 205 on track yet since I've fitted the 309 GTi wishbones and rear beam so will probably wait and see how it handles with those for now.

One thing does lowering the rear beam make it any stiffer?

Just add - higher cornering speeds more chance of the nasty oil surge.
Lowering the rear beam shouldn't make it stiffer, you may want to go for a thicker ARB.

Edited by Simes205 on Friday 23 May 08:03

[RT106]

sniff petrol said:

Had a ride in an ex-racecar E30 a few weeks back - being so stiff it didn't have to slow for corners much. Would love to make mine handle as well as that.

One thing does lowering the rear beam make it any stiffer?

The only thing you really achieve by lowering and stiffening is to reduce weight transfer and sharpen up responses. The E30 won't corner well just because it's stiff. Was it on slicks? Does it have an aero package?

205s handle well and are great fun, but don't have particularly good roadholding IMHO.

Lowering the rear beam doesn't stiffen it. To do that you need to fit thicker torsion bars, and perhaps a thicker ARB too.

[sniff petrol]

RT106 said:

The only thing you really achieve by lowering and stiffening is to reduce weight transfer and sharpen up responses. The E30 won't corner well just because it's stiff. Was it on slicks? Does it have an aero package?

205s handle well and are great fun, but don't have particularly good roadholding IMHO.

Lowering the rear beam doesn't stiffen it. To do that you need to fit thicker torsion bars, and perhaps a thicker ARB too.

The E30 was on some road legal Khumo's and just had a standard aero package from what I could see. Think it may have been an ex Khumo challenge car.

I suppose if I do go much stiffer on the 205 then the shell will start flexing even more. Suppose I'll wait and see how she goes on track with the 309 bits before deciding which action to take, if any.

Thanks all for your help and input.

[MINIrocket]

Hi All,

My mi16 had 50mm drop springs on (I think from Autofive) when I bought it along with the 309 beam (lowered also). It's horrible on the road, and I can't even get a jack under the front subframe mounts... but on the track it works really well. Here's a couple of pics from bedford.. mines the white one, and the other one is a 1.6 which I believe was standard:




One thing I can say is that the handling was a bit trickier at the limit... as it's a bit less progressive than i'd like so if I were to do it again then i'd say don't go any lower than 35-40mm, unless it really is only used on track.

I've heard good things about Eibachs for both road and track.

Hope the car survived the trackday!!

[sniff petrol]

Dave, that looks like one well sorted car. I've been in one of a similar spec (Werewolf's on here) and know what they can keep up with and even overtake on track and it's my ambition to get mine to go and handle as well.

When you get a minute would you be able to measure the distance from the top of your front wheel to the bottom of the arch? I've got about 70mm on mine and am trying to establish what drop it's had done by the previous owner.

Many thanks.

[MINIrocket]

Thanks mate,

Once I get it running again it should be fine... oh and find some good insurance too. Then it's onto fitting a cage and and interior respray!

Bottom of front wheel arch trim to the top of front tyre is 2.5cm with new 195/50 tyres on. Pretty certain mine was dropped 50mm but as it was done by previous owner, I couldn't be 100%.

Hope it helps.

[sniff petrol]

Right, so this is what mine looks like:




Got a few little things to finish off (poly windows and tidy up the wiring now I've removed the entire dash) then I'll be ready to book a track day to see how it all handles now.

[anonymous-user]

Mine's very low on Koni shocks and springs, handles superbly on track, but very crashy and rock solid on the road (uncomfortably so). Not too bothered though as it's a track car:

[sniff petrol]

Mac that looks hard as nails. Have you any idea how many mm drop and what lb springs you've got?

[anonymous-user]

sniff petrol said:

Mac that looks hard as nails. Have you any idea how many mm drop and what lb springs you've got?

Unfortunately not - they were on when I bought the car. However I'll see if I can get a look at the dampers and springs to see if there are any specific markings on them that will help.

Another pic at the NS

[johno_78]

i'm using gaz coilovers on mine. i had it as low as macs to begin with, but i found it too low. now i've raised it about an inch, it rides and handles much better.