Peugeot 205 GTi - A few questions
Discussion
I am looking into getting a 205 GTi as a project / trackday car after a few years of thinking and not having the cash to do it.
I am looking at eBay as my primary source and also keeping an eye out on the PH classifieds.
The plan is to strip it out and use as a track day car, and hopefully trips such as Le Mans.
I know there are a few GTi owners on here and I have a few questions.
The sunroof models, are they suitable for fitting a roll cage or are non-sunroof models preferable?
I understand the 1905cc engine can have either 122bhp or 130bhp as standard, how can I identify the 130bhp models?
Is there any value in selling parts (e.g seats) that I have taken out?
What are the common problems to look out for when buying? Whilst I will be working on the car, I would like it to be running when I buy.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers
Will
P.s. When I get one, I will change my user name to BigMansGTi
I am looking at eBay as my primary source and also keeping an eye out on the PH classifieds.
The plan is to strip it out and use as a track day car, and hopefully trips such as Le Mans.
I know there are a few GTi owners on here and I have a few questions.
The sunroof models, are they suitable for fitting a roll cage or are non-sunroof models preferable?
I understand the 1905cc engine can have either 122bhp or 130bhp as standard, how can I identify the 130bhp models?
Is there any value in selling parts (e.g seats) that I have taken out?
What are the common problems to look out for when buying? Whilst I will be working on the car, I would like it to be running when I buy.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers
Will
P.s. When I get one, I will change my user name to BigMansGTi
The sunroof models, are they suitable for fitting a roll cage or are non-sunroof models preferable?
Non sunroof is better as it's rigid and more headroom. With the sunroof models the head lining is thicker. Regardless though you can get a cage in both. A lot of people weld up the sunroof hole.
I understand the 1905cc engine can have either 122bhp or 130bhp as standard, how can I identify the 130bhp models?
Very late models 92 onwards would have 122bhp - They used the Motronic management system and would originally have come with a cat. The Cat option was an option from about '90 but most wouldn't have bothered.
Is there any value in selling parts (e.g seats) that I have taken out?
If the seats are in good condition then there is. Mainly with the later ph2 trim.
What are the common problems to look out for when buying? Whilst I will be working on the car, I would like it to be running when I buy.
Seized rear beam.
Wishbone bushes worn out.
etc...
Try here for all your answers and more www.205gtidrivers.com
Non sunroof is better as it's rigid and more headroom. With the sunroof models the head lining is thicker. Regardless though you can get a cage in both. A lot of people weld up the sunroof hole.
I understand the 1905cc engine can have either 122bhp or 130bhp as standard, how can I identify the 130bhp models?
Very late models 92 onwards would have 122bhp - They used the Motronic management system and would originally have come with a cat. The Cat option was an option from about '90 but most wouldn't have bothered.
Is there any value in selling parts (e.g seats) that I have taken out?
If the seats are in good condition then there is. Mainly with the later ph2 trim.
What are the common problems to look out for when buying? Whilst I will be working on the car, I would like it to be running when I buy.
Seized rear beam.
Wishbone bushes worn out.
etc...
Try here for all your answers and more www.205gtidrivers.com
Second everything Simes205 has said and forum.205gidrivers.com is the definitive source of all information about 205s and the For Sale area often has cars on it that are either allready completed track spec or are good candidates for projects.
In addition to siezed rear beam and wishbone bushes I'd add:
Head gasket - let the car warm up and check for bubbles in the coolant tank, watch for white smoke from the exhaust
Valve stem oil seals - again after the car has warmed up look for blue smoke
In addition to siezed rear beam and wishbone bushes I'd add:
Head gasket - let the car warm up and check for bubbles in the coolant tank, watch for white smoke from the exhaust
Valve stem oil seals - again after the car has warmed up look for blue smoke
What sort of budget do you have to play with? For about £3k you could buy and mod (including engine swap) a 205 and turn it into a decent track toy.
I presume that you'll be wanting to fit a 16v lump at some stage (nothing wrong with the 8v, just a little under-powered nowadays) in which case I'd aim for the Gti-6 engine for track work.
I would suggest that you try to find a good, straight (bodywork wise) car that hasn't had any mods done to it (far easier to work on than one that has had several different people bugger about with them) that is tired with high mileage for a few hundred quid. Replacing and upgrading the ENTIRE suspension and brake system can be done relatively easily by the home mechanic for £1-1.5k (depending on spec). That will give you a great handling car that will be fun to drive and reliable. Stripping the interior will improve performance all round (although I'd keep the roof lining as it weights nothing and stops the cabin becoming very "boomy" and tiring when driving). The 8v's are very strong units that can take a lot of abuse. A simple gasket change and replacement of consumables (leads, plugs, coil, dizzy, battery, filters etc) should be sufficient for plenty of track hoonage. Replacement engines, be them in 8 or 16v guise are cheap and easy to fit.
It may work out cheaper to find a car that has already been converted to more power/better specs but don’t pay over the odds for poor or worthless mods. Personally, I'd rather do the work myself so that I know exactly what has and hasn’t been done. In any event, get yourself over to Http://forum.205gtidrivers.com in the first instance.
I presume that you'll be wanting to fit a 16v lump at some stage (nothing wrong with the 8v, just a little under-powered nowadays) in which case I'd aim for the Gti-6 engine for track work.
I would suggest that you try to find a good, straight (bodywork wise) car that hasn't had any mods done to it (far easier to work on than one that has had several different people bugger about with them) that is tired with high mileage for a few hundred quid. Replacing and upgrading the ENTIRE suspension and brake system can be done relatively easily by the home mechanic for £1-1.5k (depending on spec). That will give you a great handling car that will be fun to drive and reliable. Stripping the interior will improve performance all round (although I'd keep the roof lining as it weights nothing and stops the cabin becoming very "boomy" and tiring when driving). The 8v's are very strong units that can take a lot of abuse. A simple gasket change and replacement of consumables (leads, plugs, coil, dizzy, battery, filters etc) should be sufficient for plenty of track hoonage. Replacement engines, be them in 8 or 16v guise are cheap and easy to fit.
It may work out cheaper to find a car that has already been converted to more power/better specs but don’t pay over the odds for poor or worthless mods. Personally, I'd rather do the work myself so that I know exactly what has and hasn’t been done. In any event, get yourself over to Http://forum.205gtidrivers.com in the first instance.
Rather than build/spec the car yourself I would try and buy a car already 'done'. There are plenty out there and there is bound to be one of a spec you had in mind. It will work out far more cost effective if you buy well than doing it yourself.
For example last year i bought a track prepped 205 MI16 for Circa £3000 which had cost the previous owner nearly £10,000 to build! Value For Money!
The other option would be to buy something like a 205 stock car - i think its part of the 750 motor club lot. Wouldn't take much to make road legal and should be a well sorted track machine!
Sources for ready built examples:
- on here - track day cars/205 for sale
- Performance French Magazine classifieds
- 205gti drivers
- French Sports Club
- Even 306GTI6 forum occasionally has them come up as does 106 Rallye Forum
- Circuit driver/Trac Car magazines
- 750 motor club website - classifieds
There is this example currently on fleabay which is excellent value:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/205-Mi16-200BHP-Trac...emZ19...
hope this helps,
Jonny.
For example last year i bought a track prepped 205 MI16 for Circa £3000 which had cost the previous owner nearly £10,000 to build! Value For Money!
The other option would be to buy something like a 205 stock car - i think its part of the 750 motor club lot. Wouldn't take much to make road legal and should be a well sorted track machine!
Sources for ready built examples:
- on here - track day cars/205 for sale
- Performance French Magazine classifieds
- 205gti drivers
- French Sports Club
- Even 306GTI6 forum occasionally has them come up as does 106 Rallye Forum
- Circuit driver/Trac Car magazines
- 750 motor club website - classifieds
There is this example currently on fleabay which is excellent value:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/205-Mi16-200BHP-Trac...emZ19...
hope this helps,
Jonny.
Thanks for the info guys.
One of the main points of the project is the experience gained from it. I'm a final year Motorsport engineering student who needs some more practical experience, so I thought this would be a good idea.
My budget isn't great initally, but will improve with the next round of student loan payments! I'm looking at around £500-£600 for just the car at the moment. Looking at recent eBay sales, that just about seems achieveable.
The work will not be done all at once, will probablly have to wait until next year for major expenses like a roll cage. I should be able to do a lot of the work myself, but if I can't I will find out how, as thats the best way to learn.
Engine upgrades are probably the last thing I will do, as the 1.9 should be OK for a trackday beginner. I was looking at the idea of the 1.6 with a view to fitting a 1.9 at a later day, but I think I will now go for the 1.9 straight away.
So whilst I want a track day car, the main focus at the moment is the experience of prepping it.
One of the main points of the project is the experience gained from it. I'm a final year Motorsport engineering student who needs some more practical experience, so I thought this would be a good idea.
My budget isn't great initally, but will improve with the next round of student loan payments! I'm looking at around £500-£600 for just the car at the moment. Looking at recent eBay sales, that just about seems achieveable.
The work will not be done all at once, will probablly have to wait until next year for major expenses like a roll cage. I should be able to do a lot of the work myself, but if I can't I will find out how, as thats the best way to learn.
Engine upgrades are probably the last thing I will do, as the 1.9 should be OK for a trackday beginner. I was looking at the idea of the 1.6 with a view to fitting a 1.9 at a later day, but I think I will now go for the 1.9 straight away.
So whilst I want a track day car, the main focus at the moment is the experience of prepping it.
number2301 said:
Seeing as you're wanting it for a track car, I'd start with an old 1.6 with the least amount of rot possible. A lot of people say the engine is more fun and won't be massively down on power to your typical 1.9, especially if its got the later head (86 onwards I think?).
Will bear that in mind, thanks. There is definately more 1.6's around.Have a look at this when you get chance, I was in a similar position to you and ended up buying a track-ready car as it made a lot more financial sense.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
WEREWOLF said:
how`s yours comming along Rich?
Got some new tyres waiting to go on, still not got round to giving her a service or carb tune-up yet as I've been busy fitting a new kitchen that's taken all my spare time lately. Want to change all the fluids, get a tune-up, get them tyres on then I'll be ready for the season. Any further news on the poly windows? I've found plenty of firms that will supply sheets of plastic for not a lot of money but can't find anywhere that'll do the opening sliders for a decent price.
sniff petrol said:
Have a look at this when you get chance, I was in a similar position to you and ended up buying a track-ready car as it made a lot more financial sense.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Very useful, thanks. Seems like you got a bit of a bargain there.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Despite the additional costs and the fact I don't have that amount sitting around, I think doing the work and gradually buying new bits will be the best way for me.
BigMansZetec said:
sniff petrol said:
Have a look at this when you get chance, I was in a similar position to you and ended up buying a track-ready car as it made a lot more financial sense.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Very useful, thanks. Seems like you got a bit of a bargain there.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Despite the additional costs and the fact I don't have that amount sitting around, I think doing the work and gradually buying new bits will be the best way for me.
-location: the car was in Plymouth, so not handy for everyone in the country.
-non road legalness, not to every one's taste as it's then purely a track car. I didn't mind this as I already have a couple of other road cars and was just after some cheap track fun and if trailering it to a trackday if I have a problem/crash I can just trailer it home again afterwards.
-The guy it belonged to had moved to Vietnam and left the car in his brother's lock-up for a couple of years, in case he ever came back. Once he realised he wasn't coming back he gave him permission to sell it on his behalf. I really do think he was sad to get rid of it, so I keep him updated and send the odd picture from trackdays to show that someone else is enjoying the car he put a lot of effort into building.
The fact that it hadn't done much for a couple of years just meant that it needed a bit of tidying up. I've only spent probably £200 or her since, giving her a service, new plugs, tyres, putting the battery in the boot with box and master cut-off switch, removed the front fogs to run some ducting to the air filters, re-fixed the front bumper with 4 big coach bolts.
If I were you I'd source a car that was at least partly done (maybe just a cage or suspension upgraded) it'll be a lot cheaper than doing everything yourself.
Good luck with your project, feel free to ask anymore questions you may have and most importantly keep us informed with what you end up getting
Cheers sniff,
Does sound like you got a good buy, but like you say, the travel and getting the car, can be a problem and does cost money, it must be a few hundread miles if I were to find one in the west country and take back up to Shropshire, for example.
For that reason, I am looking for one that is running, so it can be driven back, just to solve that problem.
I won't have the luxury of having a trailer, don't have the cash, space or soemthing suitable to tow it with. So driving to a track day will be the only option initally (until I enter the real world of work, then who knows).
Hoping to find something in the next few months, will keep you informed.
Does sound like you got a good buy, but like you say, the travel and getting the car, can be a problem and does cost money, it must be a few hundread miles if I were to find one in the west country and take back up to Shropshire, for example.
For that reason, I am looking for one that is running, so it can be driven back, just to solve that problem.
I won't have the luxury of having a trailer, don't have the cash, space or soemthing suitable to tow it with. So driving to a track day will be the only option initally (until I enter the real world of work, then who knows).
Hoping to find something in the next few months, will keep you informed.
Sniff, just looking at the spec of your car on the link your posted for the past thread and i see you have 'jetted' carbs?
I run a similar spec 205 to yours and am unsure whether i'm running with jetted or 'unjetted'(?) carbs.
Why would jetted carbs be so useless for the road and better for track use.
cheers, Jonny.
I run a similar spec 205 to yours and am unsure whether i'm running with jetted or 'unjetted'(?) carbs.
Why would jetted carbs be so useless for the road and better for track use.
cheers, Jonny.
BigMansZetec said:
, it must be a few hundread miles if I were to find one in the west country and take back up to Shropshire, for example.
Didn't realise you were from Shropshire too Will, I'm in Shrewsbury - where abouts are you? Feel free to pop round and check out my Peugeot and have a coffee and chat anytime.screwloose said:
Sniff, just looking at the spec of your car on the link your posted for the past thread and i see you have 'jetted' carbs?
I run a similar spec 205 to yours and am unsure whether i'm running with jetted or 'unjetted'(?) carbs.
Why would jetted carbs be so useless for the road and better for track use.
cheers, Jonny.
Jonny, I'm not 100% sure as the car was built by the previous owner but my understanding is that it's tuned by putting on larger jets on the carbs. These work well at full throttle at high revs but combined with the Piper 270 cam and lightened flywheel makes it a bit lumpy below say 3000rpm so I wouldn't like to drive it on the road much as it would get a bit tiring and would be likely to stall often. To give you an idea of how much fuel is being fed through the jets - I get 15MPG out of it I run a similar spec 205 to yours and am unsure whether i'm running with jetted or 'unjetted'(?) carbs.
Why would jetted carbs be so useless for the road and better for track use.
cheers, Jonny.
WEREWOLF said:
Rich
Hopefully be able to get some early next week.Am getting some for me and for martin but they will not be cut to size just 8 x 4 sheets apparently.
Martin is going to do the cutting himself.
Call me on 07989371259 if you want me to see if some available for you.
What are you going to do with regards to opening windows Paul? are you getting opening sliders?Hopefully be able to get some early next week.Am getting some for me and for martin but they will not be cut to size just 8 x 4 sheets apparently.
Martin is going to do the cutting himself.
Call me on 07989371259 if you want me to see if some available for you.
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