VTR - tips on making it quicker

[sean19]

Currently have a 2000 VTR.

Ideally want a VTS but my policy doesnt run out until August, and my insurance company won't insure me on anything group 12 or above.

Just wondred if anyone has any tips to give it a bit more go on a budget?

And if I went DRASTIC and removed the back seats spare wheel etc (replace with foam can) will this make any 'real' difference!

And how much would it cost to chuck a VTS lump in it? (at a guess ofcourse)

Probably come to nothing, but just looking for miracle ideas! ! !

thanks!

[whygee02]

Keep your money in the bank until you can get a decent non-chavved totally original VTS.

[dougc]

Empty the glove box
Fold the rear seats down
Pump up the tyres to 45psi

[M3Kevin]

M3 slip stream!Only joking BHP costs mate

Edited by M3Kevin on Thursday 13th December 19:21

[WildCards]

You'll make it faster by losing weight and adding bigger, better, more efficient brakes. I wouldn't bother with engine modifications unless your willing to spend a decent amount of wodge.

Unless of course it's a simple matter of swapping heads over from another engine in the family, in which case find a cheapun and bobs your uncle.

[sean19]

WildCards said:

You'll make it faster by losing weight and adding bigger, better, more efficient brakes. I wouldn't bother with engine modifications unless your willing to spend a decent amount of wodge.

Unless of course it's a simple matter of swapping heads over from another engine in the family, in which case find a cheapun and bobs your uncle.

The standard brakes are awful! But Im not looking to spend mega money on the thing, but if I was to fit drilled/grooved discs and high performance pads would this give me any real improvement?

Also I have considered lowering it about 30mm, but as its a torsion bar on the rear some people say this could do more damage than good. Thoughts?

[whygee02]

Seriously dont bother. Years ago many mates with VTR's spent hundreds (maybe even thousands) but not one could compare to my VTS. Keep it original to hold some value when you do come to upgrade to the VTS.

[Pentoman]

I remember reading that the later VTRs were quicker - they had a silver top engine? Possibly due to some difference with having a different cam design (with rollers?) Sorry my memory/tech knowledge is not too hot.

Also at the same location I read about some (all?) VTRs having a narrow part of the exhaust that is restricted intentionally.

Could be worth investigation. Not the kind of things to make a huge difference to outright objective performance, but might make it feel quicker and improve pick-up. Depends what you're looking for I guess. Also some head work could be worth investigation (removing the head for the work would be a fun project if you do it yourself too) if there's major improvement available there.

I have a 206 with the same engine.. It feels nippy and has great torque, but out on the open road is not going to blow anybody away by any means. 206 heavier though.

[Craigc2]

Gmc Motorsport Do alot of diffrent things for the Saxo. As in Manifolds and exhaust systems along with turbo's

For more information head over too www.saxosportsclub.com

They will help u out

[busta]

VTS engine swap can be done for about £500 if your lucky and get a cheap engine. Jon Ambler is the chap you need to speak to. http://www.jonambler.com

In terms of TU engine tuning (both 8 and 16v engines), a 4-2-1 manifold (circa £250) and sports exhaust (Kam Racing do a Supersprint race exhaust for £200), combined with a simota style induction kit (£80 on ebay I think) is the tried and tested route for a few extra horses. If you want proper power it's gonna cost alot more than the price of a 16v conversion to get 16v power levels. But throttle bodied 8vs do sound nice

Stripping the car will make a difference but not a huge one. Bear in mind it's hard to loose much more than 50kg of weight without making the car totally impractical, which is the same as going from a full tank of fuel to empty and how much difference does that make?

Brakes wise, a peugeot 206 HDI/GTI brake conversion is pretty much the standard fayre. You can pick up a set of calipers from a scrappy for £50 and they pretty much bolt straight on. Uprated pads are ok but tend to squeal lots, anything other than plain discs are a waste of money.

[number2301]

busta said:

In terms of TU engine tuning (both 8 and 16v engines), a 4-2-1 manifold (circa £250) and sports exhaust (Kam Racing do a Supersprint race exhaust for £200), combined with a simota style induction kit (£80 on ebay I think) is the tried and tested route for a few extra horses. If you want proper power it's gonna cost alot more than the price of a 16v conversion to get 16v power levels. But throttle bodied 8vs do sound nice

I've got a friend who went that route with the later higher powered VTR engine (in a quiksilver) plus possibly a cam and he's supposed to be running 120 odd bhp, which IS 16v power levels for what? Not far off a grand?

Either way you're never looking at a lot of power out of these TUs without spending a lot of money.

Edited by number2301 on Saturday 15th December 21:44

[busta]

number2301 said:

busta said:

In terms of TU engine tuning (both 8 and 16v engines), a 4-2-1 manifold (circa £250) and sports exhaust (Kam Racing do a Supersprint race exhaust for £200), combined with a simota style induction kit (£80 on ebay I think) is the tried and tested route for a few extra horses. If you want proper power it's gonna cost alot more than the price of a 16v conversion to get 16v power levels. But throttle bodied 8vs do sound nice

I've got a friend who went that route with the later higher powered VTR engine (in a quiksilver) plus possibly a cam and he's supposed to be running 120 odd bhp, which IS 16v power levels for what? Not far off a grand?

Either way you're never looking at a lot of power out of these TUs without spending a lot of money.

Edited by number2301 on Saturday 15th December 21:44

TUs aren't the most tuneable engines in the world I agree but they do respond better than some others to these simple breathing mods. 160hp is fairly easily attainable from a 16v with the above spec, a cam and a remap. That's up to the magic 100hp/litre, which isn't bad for a NA french engine on standard oily bits (except for the cams, obviously).

The biggest advantage TU engines have is that the cars they power are so light. My 16v Rallye may only have about 140hp but it's still as fast as any of the new 200+hp hot hatches.

[Kitchski]

A VTS lump is the best way to go, but otherwise look into a decent 4-2-1 manifold and decat with a decent full exhaust like Piper or OMP, a 106 Rallye S1 Inlet Manifold (port it too) and T.B (purely for the noise and looks), a remap and a later 98bhp head as they use bigger valves. Skim that head, gas flow it and lighten/balance the flyhweel. Lastly fit an AX GTi gearbox (they do fit) or a 106 Rallye one ideally.

Won't be rapid still....possibly nearly as quick as a VTS or around the same, provided you ditch the crap gear ratios the VTR uses. But it'll be alot of fun!

[Pentoman]

Don't throttle bodies risk losing low down torque though?

[number2301]

busta said:

they do respond better than some others to these simple breathing mods

Aye they get genuine 'Max Power' bhp gains from breathing mods, which is either impressive or a testament to how bad the standard gear is whichever way you look at it!

[Kitchski]

Pentoman said:

Don't throttle bodies risk losing low down torque though?

Individual T.B's sometimes do yes, but I was reffering to the T.B you have to fit to the 106 Rallye Inlet (sorry didn't make it all that clear)

This is the 106 Rallye inlet with T.B fitted:



I've never fitted one myself, but I'm lead to believe it's fairly straight forward (involves filing something down very slightly and changing a plug for the idle valve IIRC). I'm told it's more free-flowing than the cheap plastic unit all the other MPFI TU engines use, and that as a by-product it also produces an awesome induction roar

TU engines do respond well to a better air supply. They thrive on it more than most smaller engines.

[busta]

number2301 said:

busta said:

they do respond better than some others to these simple breathing mods

Aye they get genuine 'Max Power' bhp gains from breathing mods, which is either impressive or a testament to how bad the standard gear is whichever way you look at it!

Yeah I'm not sure what it is but it is surprising, given that 205 GTIs suffer power loss with almost anything other than standard induction, then the TU engines respond to it so well. I've got the simplest induction kit possible on my 16v Rallye- a £20 cone filter straight onto the throttle body, then a cold air feed in the form of a home-made hole in the bonnet right in front of the filter. Works a treat!

[sean19]

So I guess the first point of call is making the whole thing breath a lot easier?

Im not looking for massive gains. I was simply wondering what others had done to get a little more out of them.

Im probably better off waiting and saving for a totally standard unchaved VTS.

[Pentoman]

Well as of Tuesday night I must conclude that the TU 1.6 is a bit lacking in some department and there is surely room for improvement.

The reason is that I swapped cars for the evening to an S-plate Mk 4 Golf 1.6 8-valve and drove a few routes I normally drive. It had 85k miles and was a bit knackered but it really flew. Unquestionably quicker. Wider rev range and smooth power delivery throughout, I was really impressed. It was a 5-door and surely, surely heavier than my 206. OK it's 100bhp rather than 90 but even so I am surprised. As a car the Golf was also smoother, much more refined at speed, and a decent handler in my opinion, plus the driving position works for a tall person. Guess I had been bought by the "Mk IV Golfs are crap to drive" brigade.

Is the VW 1.6 just much newer than the TU?

[number2301]

The TU dates back to 88 I think but is a rather good engine, I suspect your problem was that the 206 is a terrible drivers car.