GTI-6 or MI-16
Discussion
Being about 1 week away from completing an Mi install I would say GTi6 is the better engine. The only reason I did not go this route is that the badge said 1.9GTi so I wanted a 1.9 engine - I know I am pedantic!
The GTi6 is a more modern engine which will give you more power and torque than an Mi without any modification. Also consider that certain parts, breather hoses etc for the Mi engine are becoming unavailable when you make your choice.
The GTi6 is a more modern engine which will give you more power and torque than an Mi without any modification. Also consider that certain parts, breather hoses etc for the Mi engine are becoming unavailable when you make your choice.
I beg to differ and would go Mi16. But thats mainly because i prefer the engine not just the fact it goes into the 205 so easily.
All the little problems people talk about with regards to oil surge can be sorted. I also feel it is a more responsive unit than the bigger engine when tuned.
All the little problems people talk about with regards to oil surge can be sorted. I also feel it is a more responsive unit than the bigger engine when tuned.
Mikey G said:
I beg to differ and would go Mi16. But thats mainly because i prefer the engine not just the fact it goes into the 205 so easily.
All the little problems people talk about with regards to oil surge can be sorted. I also feel it is a more responsive unit than the bigger engine when tuned.
All the little problems people talk about with regards to oil surge can be sorted. I also feel it is a more responsive unit than the bigger engine when tuned.
Well if you think it is that easy to fix the oil surge issues on an Mi16 then there would be a lot of people wanting to know your solution. Short of a dry sump I know of no one that has no problems with oil surge on an Mi16, plenty who have reduced the problem to acceptable levels but not completely sorted it. Not that it would stop me using one if I hadn't spent too much on my 8v engine already! It is an issue to be aware of but if you are aware generally not a problem to avoid it.
Rob
Of course dry sump is ideal, Accusump is another option that will help, but ideally proper thought out baffles and a bit of sump welding will do just as good a job.
The problem is the sump is too flat and completely unecessary, You could angle the bottom towards the pump and lose maybe a litre or a bit more of capacity and get better oil flow down to the pump as opposed to having to flow across to it. As the crank hardly falls below the line of the block there is a lot of the sump you can take away.
Another option is to re engineer the pick up pipe so it sits in the middle of the sump, again proper thought out baffles are necessary, not just a few plates in the sump.
Then again why Peugeot put the pump so far to the front of the engine we will never know
The problem is the sump is too flat and completely unecessary, You could angle the bottom towards the pump and lose maybe a litre or a bit more of capacity and get better oil flow down to the pump as opposed to having to flow across to it. As the crank hardly falls below the line of the block there is a lot of the sump you can take away.
Another option is to re engineer the pick up pipe so it sits in the middle of the sump, again proper thought out baffles are necessary, not just a few plates in the sump.
Then again why Peugeot put the pump so far to the front of the engine we will never know
pdd144c said:
Pick up isn't the problem is it. Look at the old touring car setups.
Are you sure? I dont think Peugeot run the 405 until 1992 so they may have run the XU10 block not the XU9. And anyway around that time i would have thought they would all be running a dry sump system unless rules disalowed it.
I'm not convinced about the mod where people cross the channels where the oil returns to the sump from the head, unless the sump is redesigned the oil will still run to the opposite side of it.
Trying to work out on those pictures the pipes coming from the head, the oil returns are on the back of the head and those what i assume to be scavenge pipes are coming from the front
or are they a direct oil feed to the top of the head? as looking again it looks like they are tapped into the main oilway in the head from the main pump not the scavenge pump.
Anyway as said dry sumping is expensive.
I dont like the way peugeot have gone the way of the trap door baffle on the XU10, it just seems to be a botch fix for a badly designed sump. Many people have gone the way of thinking that increasing the capacity of the sump is a help to the problem but in reality the extra oil sloshing around can make the problem worse!
Ah well, back to the rebuild of my Mi engine that has spun a bearing due to oil surge
Trying to work out on those pictures the pipes coming from the head, the oil returns are on the back of the head and those what i assume to be scavenge pipes are coming from the front
or are they a direct oil feed to the top of the head? as looking again it looks like they are tapped into the main oilway in the head from the main pump not the scavenge pump. Anyway as said dry sumping is expensive.
I dont like the way peugeot have gone the way of the trap door baffle on the XU10, it just seems to be a botch fix for a badly designed sump. Many people have gone the way of thinking that increasing the capacity of the sump is a help to the problem but in reality the extra oil sloshing around can make the problem worse!
Ah well, back to the rebuild of my Mi engine that has spun a bearing due to oil surge
A friend did an Mi16 conversion, and tried the accusump...except it doesn't work that well - he kept noticing pressure-loss towards the end of longer corners. In the end bit the bullet and went dry-sump.
Conversely, PPC mag did an Mi conversion and just used the Accusump. Mate entered into correspondence with the chief guy there to explain his findings, PPC chap ignored him...and then their Mi16 went pop!
DON'T use an accusump. If it's a road car, baffles are plenty. if it's a track-car with either adj. suspension or slicks, get it dry-sumped, it's the only way
Conversely, PPC mag did an Mi conversion and just used the Accusump. Mate entered into correspondence with the chief guy there to explain his findings, PPC chap ignored him...and then their Mi16 went pop!
DON'T use an accusump. If it's a road car, baffles are plenty. if it's a track-car with either adj. suspension or slicks, get it dry-sumped, it's the only way
pdd144c said:
Are you sure that was down to the Accusump though? We have run them on 8V XU race engines with no problems at all.
Much of it is down to the Mi16's design...it's apparently quite susceptible to surge. Can't remember the main thrust of the issue, but I seem to recall it's something about the Accusump not being designed to work for long periods?
havoc said:
pdd144c said:
Are you sure that was down to the Accusump though? We have run them on 8V XU race engines with no problems at all.
Much of it is down to the Mi16's design...it's apparently quite susceptible to surge. Can't remember the main thrust of the issue, but I seem to recall it's something about the Accusump not being designed to work for long periods?
The accusump is available in a range of sizes, and also electrical or mechanical control. Maybe they used one that was too small for a big circuit? But still without a decent sump it will empty itself very quickly on a twisty road/circuit.
On the accusump you must remember if its mechanical it will empty itself as soon as you switch off, this means if you were to fill up to the normal level on the dipsick and your accusump takes 2 litres, when you start your engine you automatically take 2 litres out of your sump.
Mikey G said:
The accusump is available in a range of sizes, and also electrical or mechanical control. Maybe they used one that was too small for a big circuit? But still without a decent sump it will empty itself very quickly on a twisty road/circuit.
Mate spoke to accusump themselves about the install, so the only way it was wrong is if they didn't know their onions!
As to switching off...yeah, mate's an engineer and spotted that pretty quick...they didn't tell him, of course!
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