172 cup/ 182/ others?

[elliothand]

Hi all,

I sold my 20vT Fiat Coupe back in may to help fund my studies and am now thinking of getting a hot hatch temporarily until back in work. As such thinking of spending around £7000 on a car and noticed I could get a 172 cup or 182 for that price. What are the main differences and what would be better? Think the cheapest I could see a decent 182 cup was around £9000 but would they be worth the extra premium? Not interested in Trophey as too much for what it is.

What other cars should I consider? I'm also thinking of getting another fiat coupe as worried that the performance of the hot hatches will leave a lot to be desired (although haven't driven any yet so happy to be contradicted!). What do you all think?

Also I'm 6ft2 so would it be much of a squeeze in one of these little ones or should I really go for a focus etc?

Edited by elliothand on Monday 6th November 16:50

[Maz 6448]

There are a few 182's for sale at the moment for less than £8k, I have a 182 with cup packs at the moment and they are cracking little cars imho and so much fun ..

[Tripps]

elliothand said:

I sold my 20vT Fiat Coupe back in may to help fund my studies and am now thinking of getting a hot hatch temporarily until back in work. As such thinking of spending around £7000 on a car and noticed I could get a 172 cup or 182 for that price. What are the main differences and what would be better?

I bought my 172 Cup back in June/July and at that time the only 182s at the £7k mark were high milers, things have moved on since then obviously but I'd still reckon on sticking to 172s for that some myself. £7 will get you a very nice standard 172 or a choice of Cup variants.

172 vs 182 doesn't have that many differences in standard form I believe, exposed twin exhausts on 182 vs hidden on 172, obviously 10 more horses on the 182. The 182 however could have optional elements of the Cup package, rather than the all or nothing of the 172/Cup, so you can find one with the upgraded suspension etc.

elliothand said:

Think the cheapest I could see a decent 182 cup was around £9000 but would they be worth the extra premium? Not interested in Trophey as too much for what it is.

The 182 Trophy is worth every penny, they are a very specialised machine with damn good and hugely expensive remote resevoir dampers, not for every one but damn good cars none-the-less.

Whether a Cup variant is worth the premium depends on what you want to use it for, for mainly long-distance motorway work a standard car might be better. But if you spend a lot of time on B-roads of track, then the Cup might suit you. 172 Cups for instance didn't have air-con until it became an option in summer 2003, so if you need to stay cool that might be an issue.

IIRC the 182 Cup isn't a compromised as the 172 Cup (it has ABS for a start), but it still handles very firmly, which you may or may not like.

elliothand said:

I'm also thinking of getting another fiat coupe as worried that the performance of the hot hatches will leave a lot to be desired (although haven't driven any yet so happy to be contradicted!). What do you all think?

The Fiat coupe isn't much quicker than a 182, unless its a mega-modded version, the 20V Turbo has 220bhp to shift around 1310Kg, where the Clio has 172/182bhp to shuffle 1150Kg (1050 for Cup variants) so where the Coupe manages 6.5s 0-60 the 182 does 6.8s and the 172 Cup similar too.

Obviously with the weight difference you gain in the corners. They are both FWD, so dynamically compromised trying to steer and drive through the sames wheels at once.

Personally I love the way the 172 drives, it makes the most boring journey (read school run) fun and drifting the rear around roundabouts is a hoot every time.

elliothand said:

Also I'm 6ft2 so would it be much of a squeeze in one of these little ones or should I really go for a focus etc?

That could be the clincher, the seating position in the Clios is a little funny, doesn't bother me but I'm only 5' 9" - you need to drive one first to see if it would give you jip when driving for any length of time.

[elliothand]

Thanks for the quick and detailed reply! I'm looking forward to having a drive in a couple. Think the cup version would suit me better as interested in b road and occasional track day.

Think you'd be very surprised if you ever tried to mix it with a fiat coupe on a main road (no idea about twisties... hence interested on opinions - fiat was okay on track but always searching for traction at speed). The 0-60 is a very limited measure of comparing performance and regardless boost is limited in the first two gears due to lack of traction.

Took mine to Germany and was happy to mix it with a boxter s up to 160mph (indicated) which is where the clio would suffer... but since not going to be keeping it long or doing many motorway miles don't think that would be an issue anymore.

With regard to Trophey version realise that it is a more specialist track focused machine but for £12k ish... would rather get a vx220, clio v6 etc etc for track cause of the rear wheel drive

[Tripps]

elliothand said:

Thanks for the quick and detailed reply! I'm looking forward to having a drive in a couple. Think the cup version would suit me better as interested in b road and occasional track day.

I'm taking mine to VW this weekend and think there will be at least one 182 there also - come say hello and have a tyre kick.

My preference was always for the Cup version, even though it's my sensible car, my only criteria was I needed to have the optional climate control - xenon lights, leather, spare wheel and ABS I wasn't worried about. Not taken mine on track yet (but will soon...) but enjoyed plenty of B-road blats and kept some impressive machinery honest.

elliothand said:

Think you'd be very surprised if you ever tried to mix it with a fiat coupe on a main road (no idea about twisties... hence interested on opinions - fiat was okay on track but always searching for traction at speed). The 0-60 is a very limited measure of comparing performance and regardless boost is limited in the first two gears due to lack of traction.

Took mine to Germany and was happy to mix it with a boxter s up to 160mph (indicated) which is where the clio would suffer... but since not going to be keeping it long or doing many motorway miles don't think that would be an issue anymore.

I've only ever played with Fiat Coupes when in my Cerb, so its difficult to judge their speed as objects in the rear view mirror look closer than they really are

My feeling for the Clio keeping up is based more on general usage, as through the corners the 172/182 aces it compared to many heavier cars and cuts down the power advantage they may have though. You probably need to work the Clio harder to keep up, but it's so worth it.

You're right about the motorway. Mine runs out of breath at 115-120, although it's got another 20mph or so to go at that point, probably more to do with the shopping trolley aerodynamics than anything else though. A decent stereo is required for major motorway mile, or an A-road diversion.

elliothand said:

With regard to Trophey version realise that it is a more specialist track focused machine but for £12k ish... would rather get a vx220, clio v6 etc etc for track cause of the rear wheel drive

That's fair enough, you can only get so many kicks out of FWD. I'm still looking at the 182 Trophy as a replacement for the 172 Cup, unless the 197 Cup really wows, but it's my spare track car as it were and my criteria for it was based more around fitting baby seats in the back, so a VX or Clio V6 wouldn't cut the mustard!

[twit]

As a complete left field option... Why not consider a Pug 205 GTI. With less than half you budget you could get a fantastic one and then maybe consider a MI16 conversion. You'll end up with a car that is comparible with the Renaults, much much cooler, much better looking, more fun (even in standard form)and when you come to punt it on you'll get you cash back!

If you have never driven one go and find one! I have owned a 172 cup and the 1.9 GTI is just a better car... IMHO!!!!

[Tripps]

twit said:

If you have never driven one go and find one! I have owned a 172 cup and the 1.9 GTI is just a better car... IMHO!!!!

The guy I bought my 172 Cup from have Renault 5 and 205s in the past and raved about them.

Not driven either, but is it the lightweight, connected feel that does it for you - just curious is all.

[Maz 6448]

I bought the 182 with cup packs because I wanted cliamate, xenons, leather etc . .I track my car and eventhough it maybe a lil bit heavier with the things you don't get on a cup I would not trade my half leater for the proverty spec interior thy put in a cup but I guess it all depends what you want out of a car however I would have a trophy because of the recaros ..

[twit]

Tripps said:

Not driven either, but is it the lightweight, connected feel that does it for you - just curious is all.

Without getting all zen...

Its just the purity of it, its powerfulish but doesnt torque steer. The steering is just incredible, you just think it though corners and it does it with a sharpness that the clio couldnt even begin to generate. I found the clio all bang and no class... In effect any moron could drive the clio fast, in a 205 you have to know what you are doing to actually go really quick - the rear is so alive but great fun for it.

When I was a kid I had a 1.6 for a year, when they were still in production and I remembered it as fun. I recently bought a 1.9 on a whim as they are so cheap. I was a bit concerned that it may not be as good as I remembered... How wrong was I, it was better! It shows just how santitised cars have become in 10-15 years,

[warren182]

Had a mk2 172, now a 182cup. Both great, seat position is, erm, unusual, but you do get used to it very quickly. I'd get a mk1 172, from £5k, get some Recaro's fitted, perfect. Mk1 is supposed to be most fun handling wise, and quickest in a straight line.

[Polarbert]

Maz 6448 said:

There are a few 182's for sale at the moment for less than £8k, I have a 182 with cup packs at the moment and they are cracking little cars imho and so much fun ..

Hey Maz!

[Tripps]

twit said:

Without getting all zen...
...

Ironically your reasons for preferring the the 205 GTi over the 172/182 is probably the same reason I've got a 172 over something more modern and clinical.

Having a Mk2 Golf GTi gave me the bug, after owning and eventually hating the Leon Cupra-R I prefer the back to basic approach.

Will have to sample a 205 to sample the extra purity, as I missed out on that era of hatches.

[Dan x2c]

i've had my 172 cup since the start of the year and the only other clio sport i'd change it for would be a trophy......or possibly a liquid yellow 182.

the reason i bought mine was the fact you see hardly any on the road.......also the mondial blue and turini's look awesome when polished up!!!

The car is a perfect base track car if thats what you want to do, although lack of air con on 2 or 3 weeks this year were a bit of a bitch!!

As for being tall, i'm 6'2 and dont have a prob driving it

[Tripps]

Dan x2c said:

i've had my 172 cup since the start of the year and the only other clio sport i'd change it for would be a trophy......

Funnily enough thats the way I've been thinking, unless the 197 Cup/Trophy is a real cracker of a car.

[AndrewD]

I toyed with getting either a 172 Cup or a Trophy & bought a 172 Cup about 10 days ago.

They're both huge fun but the Trophy is not 4000 quid better IMHO.

[Tripps]

AndrewD said:

I toyed with getting either a 172 Cup or a Trophy & bought a 172 Cup about 10 days ago.

They're both huge fun but the Trophy is not 4000 quid better IMHO.

Over a 172/Cup it is quite a gap, but over a 182 though I think they are worth the extra, for the suspension alone, nevermind the seats.

Good choice in a 172 Cup by the way

[egomeister]

Tripps said:

AndrewD said:

I toyed with getting either a 172 Cup or a Trophy & bought a 172 Cup about 10 days ago.

They're both huge fun but the Trophy is not 4000 quid better IMHO.

Over a 172/Cup it is quite a gap, but over a 182 though I think they are worth the extra, for the suspension alone, nevermind the seats.

Good choice in a 172 Cup by the way

Yep theres's a few years of depreciation to skew the comparison!

I'm sure you'll enjoy the cup though - blue with silver speedlines?

[Tripps]

egomeister said:

blue with silver speedlines?

Yeah, never figured that out myself, they were put on by the original owner, not sure if they were OEM options (as they have Renault badges) or after-market in an attempt to increase grip. But as they look good and stick the road, I've never worried too much.

It's running 205/40R16 tyres too, a non-standard size (well according to the handbook anyway).

[AndrewD]

Tripps said:

AndrewD said:

I toyed with getting either a 172 Cup or a Trophy & bought a 172 Cup about 10 days ago.

They're both huge fun but the Trophy is not 4000 quid better IMHO.

Over a 172/Cup it is quite a gap, but over a 182 though I think they are worth the extra, for the suspension alone, nevermind the seats.

Good choice in a 172 Cup by the way

Cheers! Blue with silver speedlines too

[artdealer]

Seems all has been said above. Depending upon your budget anything with 'Cup' or 'Trophy' would be a good upgrade for you.