Peugeot 205 GTi questions

Peugeot 205 GTi questions

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Discussion

mr noble

Original Poster:

6,535 posts

240 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
HI,

I'm thinking of getting a 1.9 gti for a run around, fun, trackday car on the cheap.

I am confused as to the differences between the standard gti and the Mi16.

How can I tell if an Mi16 is a real one and what should I look out for on them in general.


Thanks.
Greg

r5gttgaz

7,897 posts

227 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
I take it you mean an Mi16 converted 205? They didn't come out the factory with that engine fitted.

bales

1,905 posts

225 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Yeah they never came with a mi16 standard, most of them get the engine from a 405, there is lots about though that have been converted. However these can range from top quality jobs to real bodges with the bulkhead bashed to fit the manifold, and the engine tilted on its side more which increases oil surge.

Al Rush

4,761 posts

226 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Mr Noble,

Co-incidentally, we decided this morning to sell our long term magazine project Mi16 engined 205 GTi. I'm not sure if its what you're after.

It started life as a 1.6, and retains the box (better for sprints and acceleration) It is MoT'd, stripped and roll caged etc and has perspex windows, Jenvey throttle bodies and Avo dampers etc.

Its painted in metallic black and apart from the hole in the bonnet to accommodate the Jenvey's, looks pretty stock (it has 1.9 alloys).

egomeister

6,869 posts

270 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
How much are you looking at for the Mi16 Al?

Al Rush

4,761 posts

226 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Hi Stephen,,

I wouldn’t abuse Ted’s hospitality by doing business here, but here’s the spec.

New Toyo tyres at each corner.
New Green stuff pads (same)
Polybushed all (same).
1.9 Gti wheels.
Standard discs.
Rear 309 axle/ 1.6 gearbox.
Gripper motorsport Diff.
Avo coilovers.
Jenvey throttle bodies.
Emerald ECU.
Full Safety Devices Roll cage.
MoT until November (or late Oct, I forget)
Fully stripped interior.
Battery and fuel cut offs, fire extinguisher.
Perspex windows.
2 Race seats.
1 full race harness.
Full build history detailed in PPC magazine. Full photographic record.

I should point out that the Mi16 engine is being replaced with the spare, because the one in at the moment has suffered from oil starvation (not sure if the spare Mi16 has a Piper cam). The car only comes with the one engine. Since the work was finished last winter, it has covered probably 500 miles since we completed the project. The bodywork is in great order and is decalled.




cyberface

12,214 posts

264 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
No 205s came from the factory with the 16v engine, they are all conversions.

There are two types of the 16v engine - the alloy block (used in the early Mi16 405 and the Citroen BX 16v), and the iron block (used in later Mi16 405s). The alloy block is the homologation engine with the big valves. The iron block is heavier and produces marginally less power.

For the 205, you really want to try to get the alloy block - early Mi16 405s are thin on the ground now so the Citroen is the best bet.

Installation choices affect reliability - the 8 pipe exhaust manifold of the Mi16 engine doesn't easily fit in the 205 so you can either bash the bulkhead, tilt the engine, use an angled manifold adapter plate, or fabricate an entire new manifold. The adapter plate is the best bet.

Choose your gearbox depending on application as well - the 1.6 box is shorter geared and is pretty mental with the Mi16 engine, whereas the longer geared 1.9 box will make the engine feel a little bit more lazy.

It's a great conversion for the car though, you can get 180 bhp pretty easy and that makes the 205 nicely lively

mr noble

Original Poster:

6,535 posts

240 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Thanks guts. Went to see one today but sasly it was not in good shape.

Al, thanks for the heads up. I'll e-mail you now.

Greg

deevlash

10,442 posts

244 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
cyberface said:
No 205s came from the factory with the 16v engine, they are all conversions.

There are two types of the 16v engine - the alloy block (used in the early Mi16 405 and the Citroen BX 16v), and the iron block (used in later Mi16 405s). The alloy block is the homologation engine with the big valves. The iron block is heavier and produces marginally less power.

For the 205, you really want to try to get the alloy block - early Mi16 405s are thin on the ground now so the Citroen is the best bet.

Installation choices affect reliability - the 8 pipe exhaust manifold of the Mi16 engine doesn't easily fit in the 205 so you can either bash the bulkhead, tilt the engine, use an angled manifold adapter plate, or fabricate an entire new manifold. The adapter plate is the best bet.

Choose your gearbox depending on application as well - the 1.6 box is shorter geared and is pretty mental with the Mi16 engine, whereas the longer geared 1.9 box will make the engine feel a little bit more lazy.

It's a great conversion for the car though, you can get 180 bhp pretty easy and that makes the 205 nicely lively


I may be wrong but weren't the alloy block ones called s16's? feel free to correct me

PJR

2,616 posts

219 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Not sure if they are still available, but im 99% sure that Richard Longman used to make/supply exhaust manifolds for this 16v engine conversion.
Cheers, P

Al Rush

4,761 posts

226 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Mr Noble,

Incoming!!

_dobbo_

14,617 posts

255 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Al Rush said:


It started life as a 1.6, and retains the box (better for sprints and acceleration)


I've often wondered about this. The gearing on my 1.9 is short enough that it's verging on the ridiculous, it always feels like it needs a 6th gear on the motorway.

How much shorter is the gearing in the 1.6?

Anyway, Greg, do it! Mine is so much fun I can hardly believe it. Had it over a year and it's cost me virtually nothing to run. Beep beep!



Look anywhere except the passenger side front driving light



Read the recent "best front wheel drive car of all time" article in evo if you needed further encouragement.

Edited by _dobbo_ on Friday 1st September 21:20

sorrento205

2,875 posts

243 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
my friends Mi16 on 1.6 box cruises roughly 85mph @ 4500rpm! its ridiculously short. Best compromise is the Mi16 box it should sit roughly between the 1.6 and 1.9 gti ratios.

Al Rush

4,761 posts

226 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
sorrento205 said:
my friends Mi16 on 1.6 box cruises roughly 85mph @ 4500rpm! its ridiculously short. Best compromise is the Mi16 box it should sit roughly between the 1.6 and 1.9 gti ratios.


Agreed. Ours though, was developed for track use and suits the 1.6 box. Ok for that, but admitadly, not as daily driver.

Edit:

Dobbo: Ideally for me, if they had done 205 1.7 GTi..

Edited by Al Rush on Friday 1st September 22:22

boobles

15,241 posts

222 months

Friday 1st September 2006
quotequote all
Go for it, put a mi16 engine in + the 1.6 gti gear box & you will have some serious power there.

Mikey G

4,784 posts

247 months

Saturday 2nd September 2006
quotequote all
deevlash said:
cyberface said:
No 205s came from the factory with the 16v engine, they are all conversions.

There are two types of the 16v engine - the alloy block (used in the early Mi16 405 and the Citroen BX 16v), and the iron block (used in later Mi16 405s). The alloy block is the homologation engine with the big valves. The iron block is heavier and produces marginally less power.

For the 205, you really want to try to get the alloy block - early Mi16 405s are thin on the ground now so the Citroen is the best bet.

Installation choices affect reliability - the 8 pipe exhaust manifold of the Mi16 engine doesn't easily fit in the 205 so you can either bash the bulkhead, tilt the engine, use an angled manifold adapter plate, or fabricate an entire new manifold. The adapter plate is the best bet.

Choose your gearbox depending on application as well - the 1.6 box is shorter geared and is pretty mental with the Mi16 engine, whereas the longer geared 1.9 box will make the engine feel a little bit more lazy.

It's a great conversion for the car though, you can get 180 bhp pretty easy and that makes the 205 nicely lively


I may be wrong but weren't the alloy block ones called s16's? feel free to correct me


You are being corrected. Early models were 1.9 XU9J4 engines with alloy blocks and cast liners, fitted into 405's and some 309's. later 2.0 engines were XU10J4 with cast blocks and fitted to the last of the MI16 from around 92 on and also in the 306 S16. The same block is also in the 16v 135bhp XSi and the 167bhp GTi-6

deevlash

10,442 posts

244 months

Sunday 3rd September 2006
quotequote all
Mikey G said:
deevlash said:
cyberface said:
No 205s came from the factory with the 16v engine, they are all conversions.

There are two types of the 16v engine - the alloy block (used in the early Mi16 405 and the Citroen BX 16v), and the iron block (used in later Mi16 405s). The alloy block is the homologation engine with the big valves. The iron block is heavier and produces marginally less power.

For the 205, you really want to try to get the alloy block - early Mi16 405s are thin on the ground now so the Citroen is the best bet.

Installation choices affect reliability - the 8 pipe exhaust manifold of the Mi16 engine doesn't easily fit in the 205 so you can either bash the bulkhead, tilt the engine, use an angled manifold adapter plate, or fabricate an entire new manifold. The adapter plate is the best bet.

Choose your gearbox depending on application as well - the ,1.6 box is shorter geared and is pretty mental with the Mi16 engine, whereas the longer geared 1.9 box will make the engine feel a little bit more lazy.

It's a great conversion for the car though, you can get 180 bhp pretty easy and that makes the 205 nicely lively


I may be wrong but weren't the alloy block ones called s16's? feel free to correct me


You are being corrected. Early models were 1.9 XU9J4 engines with alloy blocks and cast liners, fitted into 405's and some 309's. later 2.0 engines were XU10J4 with cast blocks and fitted to the last of the MI16 from around 92 on and also in the 306 S16. The same block is also in the 16v 135bhp XSi and the 167bhp GTi-6


Ah I see, was the t16 realated to this lot then? was it just an mi16 with a turbo? I know it was homologated in a 405 t16 in france. I have a pal who had a 309 mi16 conversion with carbs, it was a fun car. From what I can gather the 309 had the more benign handeling of the 309/205 pair but was ignored for the looks, mainly. Incidentally he'sconverting his girlfriends 205 to an mi16 as we speak, sounds fun

Edited by deevlash on Sunday 3rd September 03:38

Mikey G

4,784 posts

247 months

Sunday 3rd September 2006
quotequote all
The 405 T16 engine was based on the 2 litre cast block unit. And is now a very rare beast aswell! would love to own one.
The 205 T16 used an 1800cc version of the alloy block motor, and that is even rarer

deevlash

10,442 posts

244 months

Sunday 3rd September 2006
quotequote all
One of the owners of puegeot ecosse in scotland has/had a 405 t16, his was an ex police car IIRC

Rob P

5,785 posts

271 months

Monday 4th September 2006
quotequote all
I had a 1.9 with a 1.6 box....but with a long 5th gear

It would hit 100ish in 4th but then would drop almost 3k rpm when changing to 5th, great for cruising!