Why no love for French?
Discussion
It's an interesting observation that French cars, including Renaultsports, don't appear to be targeted for theft as much. Additionally, despite the lack of enthusiasm for them, they seem to have superior bodywork compared to their German and Japanese counterparts, especially as they age, and are mechanically as robust as German and British cars.
I think it’s a legacy mindset from the 70’s that they were a bit flaky but the reality is so was everything else, Mk1 golf’s were rusty AF but seem to get a free pass.
Really fancy an RS300 at the moment,running a Ghibli at the minute that was advised would be in the garage forever…it isn’t…!!
Really fancy an RS300 at the moment,running a Ghibli at the minute that was advised would be in the garage forever…it isn’t…!!
Edited by Kuwahara on Sunday 2nd June 12:51
I've just gone halves on a 197 with a mate and I'm genuinely impressed with how solid it sill feels for a 18 year old car, particularly one that I'm assuming was decent value when new. I was even more surprised when the odometer started working that it's done 110k miles, I certainly can't imagine many other cars holding up much better. I've always been a german car fan but I've been impressed with the little frenchie, or Claude as we call him.
There still seems to be this belief that German cars are a paragon of "German Reliability" and "Teutonic Build Quality" and that French cars are "Unreliable rubbish".
My experience of German cars is a thin veneer of quality on the parts you touch and the mechanicals are an expensive ticking time bomb. I guess the people who buy them do so for the badge on the front, the interior build quality, low NVH (due to tons of sound deadening) and will have long since got rid of it by the time the problems start.
My family have five Renaults, the youngest is 13 years old and every single one passed it's MOT first time this year. Until recently I had an 07 Megane DCi (I only got rid of it due to ULEZ) that I owned for nearly six years and the only repair I had to do was a ball joint and a track rod end. It is still going strong as I gave it to my sister in law and at 17 years old doesn't have a spot of rust on it, even the brake pipes and exhaust are like new.
Imagine how needy a 17 year old Mercedes would be, the brake pipes would have needed replacing at ten years old and it would have been scrapped by now due to subframe rot.
I admit that Renault had a problem between 2000 and 2006 when they suffered from all sorts of electrical issues. Since then they are as reliable as anything else out there, I would argue you would have less issues running an old Renault than an old Mercedes/Audi or BMW.
Long may it continue as far as I am concerned, I buy them at 10/11 years old with 60K miles on the clock for peanuts and they have years and years of life left in them. I love the fact they are so cheap as people still believe they are unreliable and would rather buy an old BMW that is probably being sold on due to a stretched timing chain and inevitable £3K bill.
My experience of German cars is a thin veneer of quality on the parts you touch and the mechanicals are an expensive ticking time bomb. I guess the people who buy them do so for the badge on the front, the interior build quality, low NVH (due to tons of sound deadening) and will have long since got rid of it by the time the problems start.
My family have five Renaults, the youngest is 13 years old and every single one passed it's MOT first time this year. Until recently I had an 07 Megane DCi (I only got rid of it due to ULEZ) that I owned for nearly six years and the only repair I had to do was a ball joint and a track rod end. It is still going strong as I gave it to my sister in law and at 17 years old doesn't have a spot of rust on it, even the brake pipes and exhaust are like new.
Imagine how needy a 17 year old Mercedes would be, the brake pipes would have needed replacing at ten years old and it would have been scrapped by now due to subframe rot.
I admit that Renault had a problem between 2000 and 2006 when they suffered from all sorts of electrical issues. Since then they are as reliable as anything else out there, I would argue you would have less issues running an old Renault than an old Mercedes/Audi or BMW.
Long may it continue as far as I am concerned, I buy them at 10/11 years old with 60K miles on the clock for peanuts and they have years and years of life left in them. I love the fact they are so cheap as people still believe they are unreliable and would rather buy an old BMW that is probably being sold on due to a stretched timing chain and inevitable £3K bill.
It is an odd thing in this country (UK) when it comes to French and German cars, generally the French stuff is viewed as s
t and unreliable, with the German stuff being viewed as a paragon of reliability and it has been thus for decades.
Sure Renault went through a bad phase in the early to mid 2000's but all manufacturers have had bad periods, look at Mercedes in the 90's with their chocolate steel for example, it just seems the Germans get a free pass, dieselgate would have killed off other manufacturers, it didn't really affect VW, it does seem German car brands do seem to get a free pass over here.
Go over to Europe and you'll see 20-30 year old French stuff still going strong, perhaps we just get the duds in the UK!
VW with their well documented crap ID range yet they are everywhere, I had a husband and wife in earlier in the year, her ID3 PCP was up, she was looking at a Megane E-Tech, she slagged off her ID3 constantly, said it was the worst car she had ever had, constant issues...... she bought another one!
We have a Seat/Cupra franchise, they have far more warranty issues than Renault and Dacia, we have an issue currently with someone wanting to reject their recently purchased Sandero, my manager said yesterday that he contacted LawData for advice, saying to me the last time he spoke to them was in 2016, our Seat/Cupra franchise always has a rejection going on, the reason for the Sandero rejection, Apple CarPlay is connected via a wire as opposed to wireless as it was on her traded Stepway and she wasn't advised of this.
I guess in the UK we are far more worried about what the neighbours may think.
t and unreliable, with the German stuff being viewed as a paragon of reliability and it has been thus for decades. Sure Renault went through a bad phase in the early to mid 2000's but all manufacturers have had bad periods, look at Mercedes in the 90's with their chocolate steel for example, it just seems the Germans get a free pass, dieselgate would have killed off other manufacturers, it didn't really affect VW, it does seem German car brands do seem to get a free pass over here.
Go over to Europe and you'll see 20-30 year old French stuff still going strong, perhaps we just get the duds in the UK!
VW with their well documented crap ID range yet they are everywhere, I had a husband and wife in earlier in the year, her ID3 PCP was up, she was looking at a Megane E-Tech, she slagged off her ID3 constantly, said it was the worst car she had ever had, constant issues...... she bought another one!
We have a Seat/Cupra franchise, they have far more warranty issues than Renault and Dacia, we have an issue currently with someone wanting to reject their recently purchased Sandero, my manager said yesterday that he contacted LawData for advice, saying to me the last time he spoke to them was in 2016, our Seat/Cupra franchise always has a rejection going on, the reason for the Sandero rejection, Apple CarPlay is connected via a wire as opposed to wireless as it was on her traded Stepway and she wasn't advised of this.
I guess in the UK we are far more worried about what the neighbours may think.
HTP99 said:
I guess in the UK we are far more worried about what the neighbours may think.
100%. A few years ago someone I work with was due to get a new company car as their current one was three years old. At the time you could either get a company car (and pay BIK tax on it) or take the car allowance.The people I work with would never consider a second hand car so I found him a lease for a Kia Xceed at a cost of £167 a month. If he had gone for this deal he would have had money left over from the car allowance each month.
I subsequently found out he had gone for a VW T-ROC from the company car scheme as "his wife didn't like the Kia". Not going for the car allowance and having to pay the BIK tax worked out at £550 a month in real (i.e from your pay check) money.
His wife was the only one who drove it, I assumed she couldn't handle not having a German car on the drive.
Funny thing this weekend, my colleague had someone come in on Sunday to look at a used Dacia Stepway auto, they realised there wasn't enough space in the boot, it wasn't as big as the boot in their Qashqai, my colleague suggested they look at a used Kadjar auto "oh no, my mum told us not to buy French"
They turn up in a Qashqai which is a Kadjar in a different frock, looking at a Stepway which is a Renault in a different frock and guess what the mum drives, yes a Qashqai, my colleague re-educated them!!
They turn up in a Qashqai which is a Kadjar in a different frock, looking at a Stepway which is a Renault in a different frock and guess what the mum drives, yes a Qashqai, my colleague re-educated them!!
Problem is folks have long memories when it comes to reliability.
I've had two pugs..
405 Mi16, which was an absolute money pit and kept Skip Brown's in tea and biscuits as it was a regular there.
A 206 GTi from new which had no end of faults and breakages. It had two new seats FFS... How hard is to make a seat.
A Nissan x-trail which put a rod through the block - Renault engine.
It's not unique to French cars though as I wouldn't have another Merc either given the reliability of our old c350.
I'd have another pug toy, but will never own another one that I need to be reliable.
I've had two pugs..
405 Mi16, which was an absolute money pit and kept Skip Brown's in tea and biscuits as it was a regular there.
A 206 GTi from new which had no end of faults and breakages. It had two new seats FFS... How hard is to make a seat.
A Nissan x-trail which put a rod through the block - Renault engine.
It's not unique to French cars though as I wouldn't have another Merc either given the reliability of our old c350.
I'd have another pug toy, but will never own another one that I need to be reliable.
It’s weird as I’ve always bought German (mainly BMW), I went and looked at a Megan RS 300 recently, 2 years old. Whilst I agree, it still felt like newand everything felt solid the quality of the touch parts just felt cheaper and of lower quality.
Ultimately it was the infotainment side of things that put me off. It’s undoubtedly a great steer, fun to drive etc but as something I spend a lot of money one in it just let the whole experience down.
Ultimately it was the infotainment side of things that put me off. It’s undoubtedly a great steer, fun to drive etc but as something I spend a lot of money one in it just let the whole experience down.
I own four German cars, the oldest of which is 32 years old (BMW 730i) and barely a speck of rust on it. The newest is 10 years old (Porsche Boxster) and that has no rust either - same for the third car, a 2006 Audi A4 which by all accounts is known for corrosion. But my 22-year-old BMW 330Ci started getting rust on the rear arches at around 14 years old. I had them repaired, but now the rust is coming back with a vengeance.
I've always kind of liked some French cars, mainly Citroens and Peugeots, but never owned one. But I note that Alpine owners with four year old cars are finding rust on the wings and arches. Sometimes it's the dealers finding it. Imagine spending that much on a new sports car and finding it rusting after only four years!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I've always kind of liked some French cars, mainly Citroens and Peugeots, but never owned one. But I note that Alpine owners with four year old cars are finding rust on the wings and arches. Sometimes it's the dealers finding it. Imagine spending that much on a new sports car and finding it rusting after only four years!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
blueg33 said:
My new in 2007 Audi A6 was the least reliable car I have had in the last 17 years.
The German = quality is misleading and the result of excellent marketing
In 70,000 miles so far my 2006 A4 has had a failed clutch and a thermostat stuck open so the car would never get up to temperature. I think that's fairly reasonable. My 2001 BMW 330Ci had nothing at all go wrong until 120,000 miles, when the thermostat failed. And after that, nothing went wrong until the power steering pump failed at 190k. And after that the alternator failed at 205k when the car was 20 years old. I'd say that's pretty good going!The German = quality is misleading and the result of excellent marketing
LunarOne said:
blueg33 said:
My new in 2007 Audi A6 was the least reliable car I have had in the last 17 years.
The German = quality is misleading and the result of excellent marketing
In 70,000 miles so far my 2006 A4 has had a failed clutch and a thermostat stuck open so the car would never get up to temperature. I think that's fairly reasonable. My 2001 BMW 330Ci had nothing at all go wrong until 120,000 miles, when the thermostat failed. And after that, nothing went wrong until the power steering pump failed at 190k. And after that the alternator failed at 205k when the car was 20 years old. I'd say that's pretty good going!The German = quality is misleading and the result of excellent marketing
It's funny how different people have different experiences. For example, the Fords I've owned have always been perfectly reliable, and yet some people would have you believe they're the most dreadfully built cars in existence.
More relevantly, my 2011 Clio 200 is the most fragile car I've ever owned and by some margin. Not unreliable per se, it's only refused to start once (battery randomly shat itself), but the constant stream of often major issues gets more than a little tiring. On the other hand, my friend's 2011 Clio 200 never puts a foot wrong despite being thrashed on track days and at hillclimbs and sprints since it was new.
I like French cars, though. The French have (had?) an ability to design chassis that ride and handle in a different league to most of their competitors. The Clio mentioned above is just the most joyous FWD chassis I've ever driven - so much more capable and more fun to punt down a B-road than any of its rivals.
More relevantly, my 2011 Clio 200 is the most fragile car I've ever owned and by some margin. Not unreliable per se, it's only refused to start once (battery randomly shat itself), but the constant stream of often major issues gets more than a little tiring. On the other hand, my friend's 2011 Clio 200 never puts a foot wrong despite being thrashed on track days and at hillclimbs and sprints since it was new.
I like French cars, though. The French have (had?) an ability to design chassis that ride and handle in a different league to most of their competitors. The Clio mentioned above is just the most joyous FWD chassis I've ever driven - so much more capable and more fun to punt down a B-road than any of its rivals.
Am I right in remembering a time whereby perceived quality was based upon the sound of a door closing?
Think that's where the German manufactures lead the way with sound deadening and interior quality. Citroen's and Peugeots of yesteryear was always a bit cheap with just the plastic bag type material stuck inside the inner door. But over the years the interior quality between manufactures have become narrower the only real difference now is design some choosing modern sleek look and others robust and functional.
Like others have said there's the Nissan / Renault alliance and then Ford were using a variation of PSA HDi engine I wonder if this will continue with the new Transit and likewise the 2025 VW Transporter...
However at present the list of manufactures I would buy from is narrowing, I'm happy with the PSA for diesel engines and would probably go Renault for Petrol.
Think that's where the German manufactures lead the way with sound deadening and interior quality. Citroen's and Peugeots of yesteryear was always a bit cheap with just the plastic bag type material stuck inside the inner door. But over the years the interior quality between manufactures have become narrower the only real difference now is design some choosing modern sleek look and others robust and functional.
Like others have said there's the Nissan / Renault alliance and then Ford were using a variation of PSA HDi engine I wonder if this will continue with the new Transit and likewise the 2025 VW Transporter...
However at present the list of manufactures I would buy from is narrowing, I'm happy with the PSA for diesel engines and would probably go Renault for Petrol.
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