Why do French manufacturers not care?

[C70R]

Having spent the last week punting around Bordeaux as two couples in a Renault (hurriedly checks notes...) Kadjar, I need to vent with how unspeakably angry Renault's distain for the people who actually use their cars makes me.

Our hire car, with 6km on the clock, is a direct competitor for our real car, a Volvo XC40. The Volvo also took us to and from the airport this side, so it basically had a back-to-back test.

Ergonomically, the Renault is an absolute sh*tshow. I think I spent the first two hours driving the car just whacking elbows and knees against hard plastic corners. Wheel adjustability is so bad, that no manner of wheel/seat manipulation can stop it feeling as though the wheel is positioned and angled like some kind of child's toy car.

Switchgear layout is absolutely laughable. The audio control 'block' stuck on the back of the steering column belongs on a car from 1992, not 2022. The dashboard, part of which is basically unreadable in polarised sunglasses, managed to be overloaded yet give zero useful information aside from speed. The cherry on the cake - the button to enable cruise control is basically stuck, on its own, next to the handbrake. Just where you want it on the motorway.

Tyre and wind noise were also appalling relative to the Volvo, and something I'd only noticed when jumping back into our car after just getting used to it in the Renault.

How can a company who've been building cars so long get it so wrong?

[Emeye]

What's the price difference?

[esuuv]

The Renault on the uk website says from £26,295 - on the volvo website it says from £35840.

You’re more likely to see a discount from Renault too - so a 10k / 25% difference in cost is going to account for a lot of it.

[anonymous-user]

The last Renault I drove (14ish plate Clio) felt pretty plush and well made, and probably as good as any other car in it’s segment.

Due to rebadging and component sharing it’s nearly impossible to generalise about cars based on national stereotypes these days (assuming they had any substance to begin with).

[C70R]

Emeye said:

What's the price difference?

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

[Challo]

C70R said:

Emeye said:

What's the price difference?

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

But they are designing and building cars to a price point. To get in at the price they believe the market can accept for a Renault is perhaps reusing parts from previous models, and materials made to a cheap price point.

Can you change the track from the steering wheel in the Renault?

[boyse7en]

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

[C70R]

Challo said:

C70R said:

Emeye said:

What's the price difference?

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

But they are designing and building cars to a price point. To get in at the price they believe the market can accept for a Renault is perhaps reusing parts from previous models, and materials made to a cheap price point.

Should spending less mean that I should just put up with a rubbish driving position?

Shouldn't a 'good enough' driving position be par for the course with all cars in 2022? Not least with one that would have cost £26k if I'd bought it new?

[The spinner of plates]

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

Well I guess you pays your money and makes your choices.

[C70R]

boyse7en said:

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

[Clarkedontgo]

C70R said:

boyse7en said:

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

That does look like something from a mk1 Clio

[Martyn76]

C70R said:

boyse7en said:

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

That's been a standard on Renaults for years (easily 10+), never had a problem in it the numerous Renaults I have driven including our 18 plate Clio, horses for courses and all that.

[Jaguar steve]

Challo said:

But they are designing and building cars to a price point. To get in at the price they believe the market can accept for a Renault is perhaps reusing parts from previous models, and materials made to a cheap price point.

Can you change the track from the steering wheel in the Renault?

French cars are generally very competitively priced and are biased perhaps more than most toward weight reduction to aid fuel economy and as a result are sometimes found to be plasticy and flimsy and lack a feel of quality compared with other marques.

Pennies and grams shaved off occasionally shows and sometimes grates, but as another poster quite rightly said ya pays ya money...

[2xChevrons]

boyse7en said:

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

Also - at least, traditionally - French car makers tended to prioritise mechanical durability over more surface-level quality, especially on their more low-budget and mainstream offerings. Hard plastics, non-existent ergonomics, minor controls apparently thrown at random onto the dashboard, seat fabrics that peeled apart after a few hours exposure to sunlight, cheap and wobbly electrical switches, friable electrical connectors for non-essential peripherals, that sort of thing. But the drivetrain and running gear would last 250,000 miles of moderate-to-harsh abuse even as the interior disintegrated. When given a limited development budget and a tight price margin to work in, French firms generally preferred to get the bare essentials right and let everything else go hang.

That's a generalisation of course, and one which doesn't apply so strongly as it did back in the 1970s-1990s period when old Peugeots and Renaults were capable of surviving everything short of a nuclear blast but their window winders would snap off if not moved with a careful be-gloved finger and thumb. But that sense of priorities probably still lingers in the habits of the French car makers and the French car buyers.

[Doofus]

Martyn76 said:

horses for courses and all that.

This. A one-sided rant littered with hyperbole because you didn't like a car and the entire French motor industry goes in the stter?

[dibblecorse]

C70R said:

Should spending less mean that I should just put up with a rubbish driving position?

Shouldn't a 'good enough' driving position be par for the course with all cars in 2022? Not least with one that would have cost £26k if I'd bought it new?

One mans rubbish driving position is another mans perfection .... you didn't like the car, it wasn't to your liking, plenty of others may well feel the same way about your car, its hardly worth a rant and a dig at the french is it ?

[C70R]

Martyn76 said:

C70R said:

boyse7en said:

C70R said:

I don't think price difference should be the source of differences like those. They are the fundamentals, the basics.

I shouldn't expect to pay lots more money just to be easily able to change track from my steering wheel (the scrolling 'wheel' in the Renault is like something from a 90s Walkman).

That's exactly the sort of thing you pay the extra money for. All those little pleasures cost, and more importantly people will stump up ridiculous amounts of money for them, so manufacturers want you to feel a bit "short changed" so you will upgrade/buy a better model.

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

That's been a standard on Renaults for years (easily 10+), never had a problem in it the numerous Renaults I have driven including our 18 plate Clio, horses for courses and all that.

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

[nickfrog]

Sorry to hear that. I had a Kadjar as a Company car for a couple of years and really liked it.

The cruise control main button is weird but from memory you can just leave it on once and for all so not an issue.

Audio controls are a bit of an idiosyncrasy indeed. If you've never used the Renault system then it is a pain to get used to it in a rental car. On the other hand, having used it for many years it remains the best there is ergonomically for me.

The rest of the car is a Qashqai in effect but bigger and particularly the boot, which made it super practical.

[dan98]

French cars have been notorious for quirky and unintuitive interior designs for many years - I'm not sure how this can possibly be news to anyone....

Having said that, I find both the latest Clio and Megane very good in this respect, while the Mercedes A Class for example is an utter mess.

[C70R]

Jaguar steve said:

French cars are generally very competitively priced and are biased perhaps more than most toward weight reduction to aid fuel economy and as a result are sometimes found to be plasticy and flimsy and lack a feel of quality compared with other marques.

Pennies and grams shaved off occasionally shows and sometimes grates, but as another poster quite rightly said ya pays ya money...

Here's the thing. I've tried not to focus on material quality, because that would be too easy. And that's the kind of thing I expect to see when I spend less money.

The things I've focused on are where the cost of getting it right was an investment of time and brainpower, not just chucking nicer materials at it.