2010 Clio 200 - First impressions
Discussion
Having driven around an old Clio 182 for the past 18 months (due to a suggestion from one of my "What car next" posts on here, I decided it was time for an upgrade and something a bit newer.
Fast forward to last weekend, I picked up a 2010 Clio 200 Cup - Yay - and sold off the 182 that same weekend.
Having not driven one, I was expecting a similar but more refined driving experience. WOW - How wrong was I?!?
Initial impressions:
- Ride, smooth if "Stiff" as expected, sticks like the proverbial.
- Brakes, VERY good, if too sharp for my liking.
- Clutch, Much lighter than the 182, thank god!
- Steering, electric PAS, not nice.
- Gearbox, 6 speed manual, smooth, however I don't think the ratios are right.
- By far the most god-awful driving experience of any car I've driven, and that's a lot.
The throttle response/feel is one of the key issues, the first half of the pedal does very little, and what it does do is preceded by a half-second lag (Some say this is a result of it being a "Fly by wire" system, utter b
ks, this is not an excuse)
This means that its impossible to blip on down-shifts, and any fast reactions go un-noticed by the engine.
Taking off from a junction with any degree of haste is almost impossible without revving the living crap out of it and slipping the clutch excessively, otherwise the engine bogs down and the car nose-dives once it bites.
In 1st/2nd gear, sometimes the car gets into some sort of very aggressive "Kangarooing" cycle, the only way out is to release the clutch.
There also feels like there is a huge amount of play in the drive-train, like an exadurated "Bouncy" feel of the rubber-donut based Lotus Elan.
How the hell did this get through development/testing without someone pointing this out?? Or is it just mine?
It's OK on the motorway though, and when you get a chance to explore 5k+ rpm, by-god it pulls.
Think I might sell it. or burn it. Successor to the 182? nope.
Fast forward to last weekend, I picked up a 2010 Clio 200 Cup - Yay - and sold off the 182 that same weekend.
Having not driven one, I was expecting a similar but more refined driving experience. WOW - How wrong was I?!?
Initial impressions:
- Ride, smooth if "Stiff" as expected, sticks like the proverbial.
- Brakes, VERY good, if too sharp for my liking.
- Clutch, Much lighter than the 182, thank god!
- Steering, electric PAS, not nice.
- Gearbox, 6 speed manual, smooth, however I don't think the ratios are right.
- By far the most god-awful driving experience of any car I've driven, and that's a lot.
The throttle response/feel is one of the key issues, the first half of the pedal does very little, and what it does do is preceded by a half-second lag (Some say this is a result of it being a "Fly by wire" system, utter b
ks, this is not an excuse)This means that its impossible to blip on down-shifts, and any fast reactions go un-noticed by the engine.
Taking off from a junction with any degree of haste is almost impossible without revving the living crap out of it and slipping the clutch excessively, otherwise the engine bogs down and the car nose-dives once it bites.
In 1st/2nd gear, sometimes the car gets into some sort of very aggressive "Kangarooing" cycle, the only way out is to release the clutch.
There also feels like there is a huge amount of play in the drive-train, like an exadurated "Bouncy" feel of the rubber-donut based Lotus Elan.
How the hell did this get through development/testing without someone pointing this out?? Or is it just mine?
It's OK on the motorway though, and when you get a chance to explore 5k+ rpm, by-god it pulls.
Think I might sell it. or burn it. Successor to the 182? nope.
Edited by Undercover Agent on Thursday 25th October 10:07
Hm, are you sure you didn't just buy a bad one?
All Clios from the Phase 2 172 onwards have a fly-by-wire throttle, and I've never experienced issues with slow engine response when rev-matching in my 172, or in the 197. Now, it's not as quick as the old 1.6 Clio with cable throttle I had before, but it's by no means slow or problematic. Maybe there's something wrong with the throttle body?
With regards to the kangarooing, they all do it when they're cold, it's a result of the aggressive cams and cold engine mapping. The bogging down is also a cold engine thing. They should disappear once you're up to temperature. If they don't, there's something wrong, once again maybe with the throttle body. However, if you're talking about jumpyness when putting it in first and just leaving it crawling, then yes, this is a feature courtesy of the aggressive cams which work very well at high speeds, but are rubbish at idle.
Not sure what you mean by "bounciess" in the drivetrain, but could the dogbone mount be on its way out, leading to a lot of powertrain movement under load, i.e. torque recoil?
All Clios from the Phase 2 172 onwards have a fly-by-wire throttle, and I've never experienced issues with slow engine response when rev-matching in my 172, or in the 197. Now, it's not as quick as the old 1.6 Clio with cable throttle I had before, but it's by no means slow or problematic. Maybe there's something wrong with the throttle body?
With regards to the kangarooing, they all do it when they're cold, it's a result of the aggressive cams and cold engine mapping. The bogging down is also a cold engine thing. They should disappear once you're up to temperature. If they don't, there's something wrong, once again maybe with the throttle body. However, if you're talking about jumpyness when putting it in first and just leaving it crawling, then yes, this is a feature courtesy of the aggressive cams which work very well at high speeds, but are rubbish at idle.
Not sure what you mean by "bounciess" in the drivetrain, but could the dogbone mount be on its way out, leading to a lot of powertrain movement under load, i.e. torque recoil?
Throttle response on mine is almost too aggressive with almost instant response from applied throttle and it has perfectly acceptable low down pulling power, in fact it is much better than I expected for a high-reving NA engine. I also have no kangarooing when pulling away from cold. Maybe get yours on a rolling road so they can see what's going on. Remapping won't give you much more power but it can smooth it out.
R12many said:
Throttle response on mine is almost too aggressive with almost instant response from applied throttle and it has perfectly acceptable low down pulling power, in fact it is much better than I expected for a high-reving NA engine. I also have no kangarooing when pulling away from cold. Maybe get yours on a rolling road so they can see what's going on. Remapping won't give you much more power but it can smooth it out.
Are you sure yours hadnt been "Tweaked" before you got it? As the throttle is a VERY common complaint...Undercover Agent said:
Are you sure yours hadnt been "Tweaked" before you got it? As the throttle is a VERY common complaint...
I'm not actually sure but people who have driven it have mentioned the possibility as there is virtually no 'slack' in the throttle. In town it's a right pain but is a joy on the open road. Going from turbo cars capable of stupid speeds to the Clio was quite a change but I do enjoy the reward of thrashing the hell out of it without actually being near jail speeds!Undercover Agent said:
Having driven around an old Clio 182 for the past 18 months (due to a suggestion from one of my "What car next" posts on here, I decided it was time for an upgrade and something a bit newer.
Fast forward to last weekend, I picked up a 2010 Clio 200 Cup - Yay - and sold off the 182 that same weekend.
Having not driven one, I was expecting a similar but more refined driving experience. WOW - How wrong was I?!?
Initial impressions:
- Ride, smooth if "Stiff" as expected, sticks like the proverbial.
- Brakes, VERY good, if too sharp for my liking.
- Clutch, Much lighter than the 182, thank god!
- Steering, electric PAS, not nice.
- Gearbox, 6 speed manual, smooth, however I don't think the ratios are right.
- By far the most god-awful driving experience of any car I've driven, and that's a lot.
The throttle response/feel is one of the key issues, the first half of the pedal does very little, and what it does do is preceded by a half-second lag (Some say this is a result of it being a "Fly by wire" system, utter bks, this is not an excuse)
This means that its impossible to blip on down-shifts, and any fast reactions go un-noticed by the engine.
Taking off from a junction with any degree of haste is almost impossible without revving the living crap out of it and slipping the clutch excessively, otherwise the engine bogs down and the car nose-dives once it bites.
In 1st/2nd gear, sometimes the car gets into some sort of very aggressive "Kangarooing" cycle, the only way out is to release the clutch.
There also feels like there is a huge amount of play in the drive-train, like an exadurated "Bouncy" feel of the rubber-donut based Lotus Elan.
How the hell did this get through development/testing without someone pointing this out?? Or is it just mine?
It's OK on the motorway though, and when you get a chance to explore 5k+ rpm, by-god it pulls.
Think I might sell it. or burn it. Successor to the 182? nope.
I have driven quite a few in the past, used to work for Renault, it sounds to me like it’s either got a throttle body or camshaft sensor problem or the cambelt has been changed and not done correctly, Fast forward to last weekend, I picked up a 2010 Clio 200 Cup - Yay - and sold off the 182 that same weekend.
Having not driven one, I was expecting a similar but more refined driving experience. WOW - How wrong was I?!?
Initial impressions:
- Ride, smooth if "Stiff" as expected, sticks like the proverbial.
- Brakes, VERY good, if too sharp for my liking.
- Clutch, Much lighter than the 182, thank god!
- Steering, electric PAS, not nice.
- Gearbox, 6 speed manual, smooth, however I don't think the ratios are right.
- By far the most god-awful driving experience of any car I've driven, and that's a lot.
The throttle response/feel is one of the key issues, the first half of the pedal does very little, and what it does do is preceded by a half-second lag (Some say this is a result of it being a "Fly by wire" system, utter b
ks, this is not an excuse)This means that its impossible to blip on down-shifts, and any fast reactions go un-noticed by the engine.
Taking off from a junction with any degree of haste is almost impossible without revving the living crap out of it and slipping the clutch excessively, otherwise the engine bogs down and the car nose-dives once it bites.
In 1st/2nd gear, sometimes the car gets into some sort of very aggressive "Kangarooing" cycle, the only way out is to release the clutch.
There also feels like there is a huge amount of play in the drive-train, like an exadurated "Bouncy" feel of the rubber-donut based Lotus Elan.
How the hell did this get through development/testing without someone pointing this out?? Or is it just mine?
It's OK on the motorway though, and when you get a chance to explore 5k+ rpm, by-god it pulls.
Think I might sell it. or burn it. Successor to the 182? nope.
Edited by Undercover Agent on Thursday 25th October 10:07
Reciprocating mass said:
I have driven quite a few in the past, used to work for Renault, it sounds to me like it’s either got a throttle body or camshaft sensor problem or the cambelt has been changed and not done correctly,
Interesting, thanks for that! It HIGHLY unlikely it's has a belt change (22k on the clock) but I will investigate the throttle body and sensor, where is the can sensor? Next to the dephaser?Yes next to dephaser by oil filler cap, it’s correct name is a camshaft dephaser solenoid, it is worth getting it checked out though rather than just Going by what I have mentioned, at 8 years old I would probably get the belt changed for piece of mind though they probs suggest 10 years or 100k the belts always used to be 72k or 4 years on older f4r engines, I think the interval was just changed to bring down running costs rather than for any improvement in the belt etc
Give the throttle body a clean if you can manage it first with a bit of brake cleaner both sides of the flap and see if that helps
Give the throttle body a clean if you can manage it first with a bit of brake cleaner both sides of the flap and see if that helps
Edited by Reciprocating mass on Friday 26th October 15:47
Jester86 said:
If I remember correctly Clio 200's have a 6 year cambelt interval / 72k mileage limit. Whichever comes first.
So if it hasn't been done, i'd be doing it ASAP.
Just checked my notes it is 6 years or 72k So if it hasn't been done, i'd be doing it ASAP.
Edited by Jester86 on Friday 26th October 16:27
And make sure the accessory belt and tensioner gets done at the same time
You have a bad one.
Throttle response is literally instant on these.
Source - Clio 200 2009 daily.
Kangarooing any other time than 1st 2 minutes In cold weather is also no right.
I always always moan about the running costs of these over the last 30k miles ive put on mine, very easy to buy a dog.
I would say keep it and take it to a specialist for a full check over of everything, a proper specialist like TwoTechs in Dartford (not sure where you are based though?)
Once sorted it will piss on a 182 so wouldn’t bother going back (not digging a 182 but it’s getting ancient).
Throttle response is literally instant on these.
Source - Clio 200 2009 daily.
Kangarooing any other time than 1st 2 minutes In cold weather is also no right.
I always always moan about the running costs of these over the last 30k miles ive put on mine, very easy to buy a dog.
I would say keep it and take it to a specialist for a full check over of everything, a proper specialist like TwoTechs in Dartford (not sure where you are based though?)
Once sorted it will piss on a 182 so wouldn’t bother going back (not digging a 182 but it’s getting ancient).
I had a 2010 one for 5 years, sold it 3 years ago. Sounds like yours isn't quite right. I still miss mine and keep thinking about getting another one, there is nothing else like it out there. The cam belt should have been done at 6 years. The gear box is stiff when cold but after that is great.
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