How much fun would a 1.4 106 or 205 be?
Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm thinking of getting a cheapo B-road hack, something small, light yet sporty to hoon around in a bit. Now the obvious choice here would be a rallye/GTI of either model, but they tend to be rare, and i'd be a bit affraid of a cheap GTI being treated poorly by some job.
My first thought was a Cinquecento sporting, but those things are pretty low on power, a 1.1 106 would be just as quick, a 1.4 would be considerably faster, and from what i can find, it'd be fitted with ARBs front and back (vs only front on the cinq). Throw on a set of 30-40mm lowering springs, and i think a 106 should be fun enough to hoon around in, even if it isnt a rallye.
What say you though?
I'm thinking of getting a cheapo B-road hack, something small, light yet sporty to hoon around in a bit. Now the obvious choice here would be a rallye/GTI of either model, but they tend to be rare, and i'd be a bit affraid of a cheap GTI being treated poorly by some job.
My first thought was a Cinquecento sporting, but those things are pretty low on power, a 1.1 106 would be just as quick, a 1.4 would be considerably faster, and from what i can find, it'd be fitted with ARBs front and back (vs only front on the cinq). Throw on a set of 30-40mm lowering springs, and i think a 106 should be fun enough to hoon around in, even if it isnt a rallye.
What say you though?
smiles per £ is very very high
thats my beloved 205 gr, 1.4 8 valve. it owes me £200, it handles like a bot but ive got some gti front springs and a set of thicker torsion bars for the rear. at current it has the tu3s engine which has 75bhp but if fitted with a twin choke carb off a xs then apparently should be 85 theres also scope to mod the exhaust manifold, so 90bhp is easily achievable.
just look for a 3 door, when pushing on through the bends you can feel the flex in a 5 door
thats my beloved 205 gr, 1.4 8 valve. it owes me £200, it handles like a bot but ive got some gti front springs and a set of thicker torsion bars for the rear. at current it has the tu3s engine which has 75bhp but if fitted with a twin choke carb off a xs then apparently should be 85 theres also scope to mod the exhaust manifold, so 90bhp is easily achievable.
just look for a 3 door, when pushing on through the bends you can feel the flex in a 5 door
Thanks for the Advice! I already had my heart set on a 3 door, and carbs are definitely a reason to look for a 205 over a 106, although i prefer the 106 on looks.
The Mrs keeps pushing me to find a convertible, although most 205 convs in my budget range look a bit tatty, and i'm guessing that because of the missing roof they'd be more suited to casual cruising rather then roundabout storming.
The Mrs keeps pushing me to find a convertible, although most 205 convs in my budget range look a bit tatty, and i'm guessing that because of the missing roof they'd be more suited to casual cruising rather then roundabout storming.
Look for a 205 Roland Garros hatch. 3 doors, 1.4 engine on carbs 85bhp. Very easy to work on, very little electrical to go wrong (electrics far simpler than gtis). 3 door shell helps too. Not fast by modern standards but given the light shell perfectly enjoyable. These cars are all about maintaining momentum.
sjabrown said:
Look for a 205 Roland Garros hatch. 3 doors, 1.4 engine on carbs 85bhp. Very easy to work on, very little electrical to go wrong (electrics far simpler than gtis). 3 door shell helps too. Not fast by modern standards but given the light shell perfectly enjoyable. These cars are all about maintaining momentum.
IS the 85bhp specific to the RG version? might have to look for one of those specifically then. I love the idea of little electronics, as those are the bits that are really hard to fix when they go wrong, oily bits so far have been easy enough to muck about with.As for driving style, i love belting through corners, anyone can just mash the throttle on the straights, so a slower car with good handling sounds like a ton of fun.
Anyone have any specific rust spots for 205s/106s? My last car project sort of died when i discovered loads of nasty rust in the chassis beams
Dave^ said:
A mate of mine used to have a 205XS...
It got rear ended twice, he ran it with no oil for a while whilst trying to kill it before the MOT ran out...
Tough to kill the little bugger then eh? sounds excellent.It got rear ended twice, he ran it with no oil for a while whilst trying to kill it before the MOT ran out...
OlberJ said:
205 XS is a fine machine.
I've just picked up a 1.8TD. It's a riot and then some. Can't grumble for £500. It's not quite the Mi16 i had before but it's a good wad of the way there.
Good to read, i wont be getting a derv one though (road tax on diesel is insane over here), but good to hear that a moderately powered pug is still a good laugh.I've just picked up a 1.8TD. It's a riot and then some. Can't grumble for £500. It's not quite the Mi16 i had before but it's a good wad of the way there.
Vitorio said:
Dave^ said:
A mate of mine used to have a 205XS...
It got rear ended twice, he ran it with no oil for a while whilst trying to kill it before the MOT ran out...
Tough to kill the little bugger then eh? sounds excellent.It got rear ended twice, he ran it with no oil for a while whilst trying to kill it before the MOT ran out...
Cheap 106's are brilliant fun cars, but make sure you go for one of the more 'sporty' cars as they have ARB's and the same goes for 205's but they tend to be a bit more pricey these days.
As mentioned above, XSi's are an excellent bet and can be picked up for peanuts. However, values are rock bottom at the moment so don't write off the quicker models.
This is my old XSi 16v (had a GTI engine and box and lots of nice parts), I paid £600 with no T&T and by the time I'd got it on the road and added a few more tuning parts it owed me less than a grand (sold a couple of years back):
It went like stink and was awesome fun on road and track!
So much so that I promised myself I'd find a nice s1 Rallye as a keeper and just over a month ago I found my Rallye. A beauty of a stock (bar exhaust and panel filter), low mileage car, with a huge wad of paperwork but in need of minor TLC for just over a grand!
It's amazing fun to drive and loves to be revved, pulling hard all the way to the limiter much like a Honda. Obviously with just 1300 cc's there's not much low down, but with the nice low geared final drive it's easy to keep it on the boil. The handling and steering is tight and precise and on tight B-roads you feel like you're on a rally stage without breaking the speed limit!
Great cars and often foolish written off as boy racer/french tat/just another shopping car by people who consider themselves to be petrolheads. How many proper homologation specials by a brand with pedigree be bought for peanuts these days!?...
Both the 1.4 and 1.6 XSi's are broadly similar cars and I imagine would be just as much fun but are obviously not quite as special as the Rallye. Do it!
Edit: Just to add that the 205 XS and Rallye are worth considering, but don't have the low final drive of the 106. Also, don't be fooled by the additional premiums attracted by the 205 Rallye as it's just a re-badged XS; only in europe did they get a proper build very similar to our s1 106 Rallye.
As mentioned above, XSi's are an excellent bet and can be picked up for peanuts. However, values are rock bottom at the moment so don't write off the quicker models.
This is my old XSi 16v (had a GTI engine and box and lots of nice parts), I paid £600 with no T&T and by the time I'd got it on the road and added a few more tuning parts it owed me less than a grand (sold a couple of years back):
It went like stink and was awesome fun on road and track!
So much so that I promised myself I'd find a nice s1 Rallye as a keeper and just over a month ago I found my Rallye. A beauty of a stock (bar exhaust and panel filter), low mileage car, with a huge wad of paperwork but in need of minor TLC for just over a grand!
It's amazing fun to drive and loves to be revved, pulling hard all the way to the limiter much like a Honda. Obviously with just 1300 cc's there's not much low down, but with the nice low geared final drive it's easy to keep it on the boil. The handling and steering is tight and precise and on tight B-roads you feel like you're on a rally stage without breaking the speed limit!
Great cars and often foolish written off as boy racer/french tat/just another shopping car by people who consider themselves to be petrolheads. How many proper homologation specials by a brand with pedigree be bought for peanuts these days!?...
Both the 1.4 and 1.6 XSi's are broadly similar cars and I imagine would be just as much fun but are obviously not quite as special as the Rallye. Do it!
Edit: Just to add that the 205 XS and Rallye are worth considering, but don't have the low final drive of the 106. Also, don't be fooled by the additional premiums attracted by the 205 Rallye as it's just a re-badged XS; only in europe did they get a proper build very similar to our s1 106 Rallye.
Edited by Richair on Thursday 9th May 21:02
Richair said:
Cheap 106's are brilliant fun cars, but make sure you go for one of the more 'sporty' cars as they have ARB's and the same goes for 205's but they tend to be a bit more pricey these days.
As mentioned above, XSi's are an excellent bet and can be picked up for peanuts. However, values are rock bottom at the moment so don't write off the quicker models.
This is my old XSi 16v (had a GTI engine and box and lots of nice parts), I paid £600 with no T&T and by the time I'd got it on the road and added a few more tuning parts it owed me less than a grand (sold a couple of years back):
It went like stink and was awesome fun on road and track!
So much so that I promised myself I'd find a nice s1 Rallye as a keeper and just over a month ago I found my Rallye. A beauty of a stock (bar exhaust and panel filter), low mileage car, with a huge wad of paperwork but in need of minor TLC for just over a grand!
It's amazing fun to drive and loves to be revved, pulling hard all the way to the limiter much like a Honda. Obviously with just 1300 cc's there's not much low down, but with the nice low geared final drive it's easy to keep it on the boil. The handling and steering is tight and precise and on tight B-roads you feel like you're on a rally stage without breaking the speed limit!
Great cars and often foolish written off as boy racer/french tat/just another shopping car by people who consider themselves to be petrolheads. How many proper homologation specials by a brand with pedigree be bought for peanuts these days!?...
Both the 1.4 and 1.6 XSi's are broadly similar cars and I imagine would be just as much fun but are obviously not quite as special as the Rallye. Do it!
Edit: Just to add that the 205 XS and Rallye are worth considering, but don't have the low final drive of the 106. Also, don't be fooled by the additional premiums attracted by the 205 Rallye as it's just a re-badged XS; only in europe did they get a proper build very similar to our s1 106 Rallye.
Both stunning little cars, i'd love an S1 rallye, but i doubt i'll find one within my price-range that isnt shot to bits (i'm in the netherlands, the used car market here is somewhat more expensive then in the UK sadly)As mentioned above, XSi's are an excellent bet and can be picked up for peanuts. However, values are rock bottom at the moment so don't write off the quicker models.
This is my old XSi 16v (had a GTI engine and box and lots of nice parts), I paid £600 with no T&T and by the time I'd got it on the road and added a few more tuning parts it owed me less than a grand (sold a couple of years back):
It went like stink and was awesome fun on road and track!
So much so that I promised myself I'd find a nice s1 Rallye as a keeper and just over a month ago I found my Rallye. A beauty of a stock (bar exhaust and panel filter), low mileage car, with a huge wad of paperwork but in need of minor TLC for just over a grand!
It's amazing fun to drive and loves to be revved, pulling hard all the way to the limiter much like a Honda. Obviously with just 1300 cc's there's not much low down, but with the nice low geared final drive it's easy to keep it on the boil. The handling and steering is tight and precise and on tight B-roads you feel like you're on a rally stage without breaking the speed limit!
Great cars and often foolish written off as boy racer/french tat/just another shopping car by people who consider themselves to be petrolheads. How many proper homologation specials by a brand with pedigree be bought for peanuts these days!?...
Both the 1.4 and 1.6 XSi's are broadly similar cars and I imagine would be just as much fun but are obviously not quite as special as the Rallye. Do it!
Edit: Just to add that the 205 XS and Rallye are worth considering, but don't have the low final drive of the 106. Also, don't be fooled by the additional premiums attracted by the 205 Rallye as it's just a re-badged XS; only in europe did they get a proper build very similar to our s1 106 Rallye.
Edited by Richair on Thursday 9th May 21:02
With regards to sporty models, i gather that the XSi is different then the XR/XS in terms of suspension then? I'm fine with leaving any sort of luxury behind as this will be purely for backroad hooning and short drives, but i'd hate to unknowingly pick up one with inferior suspension bits.
EDIT: love the black rims on the blue car (looks like ronal turbo's if i'm right)
OlberJ said:
Can you import one from France? Sure you could pick up a decent one there.
probably could, but with a shed-budget (from which i'd hope to keep some for repairs if needed, or some small upgrades if not), importing anything will be pretty pricey (car will need to be tested over here + all sorts of document fees and such), besides, my french is poor enough that i couldnt possible have a decent chat with a seller, never mind sniff out a lemon.Richair said:
They're Compomotive TH-mono's 
I did like those wheels!
The XS had a detuned 1.4 engine that only made 75bhp IIRC. Also I think they had thinner, or even no ARB's and certainly didn't have sport suspension. I'd steer well clear and I'd be after one of the 100bhp models.
Did some research, any 1.4 XS/N/R/T does have the monopoint injected TU3 making 75hp, the XSi has the multipoint inject engine making 95hp, then there is the 1.6 which does 90hp, or 120 in 16v guise. I did like those wheels!The XS had a detuned 1.4 engine that only made 75bhp IIRC. Also I think they had thinner, or even no ARB's and certainly didn't have sport suspension. I'd steer well clear and I'd be after one of the 100bhp models.
As for the ARBs/suspension, cars-data.com lists the 1.0 as having no stabilizers, the 1.1 only has one on the front, and any 1.4 should have both front and rear ARBs, i cant find anything about the thickness. I also tried to decipher something about suspension, as the Rallye and XSi are listed as being 9mm lower then the XN/XS models, but i'm not sure if this is a real indication of suspenion height. Either way, a pair of 35mm lowering springs isnt expensive.
So i think i'll be hunting for a phase 1 XSi, presuming anything with a rallye/GTI badge will be out of my budget range. I might settle for a 1.4 in the end though, since XSis are a bit rare as well, i'd rather have a good XS then a tatty XSi, one can always fit stiffer ARBs from the scrappy.
Richair said:
For a hooner I usually work on the assumption that the suspension will be shot and need replacing any how, so as you say you can easily upgrade.
Good luck in your search!
Thanks, i've been doing some research into possible upgrades, and a cheap-ish suspesion set (lowering springs + dampers) would be 250-300 euros, so if i find a good car which doesnt need immediate fixings, i might just make that the first upgrade, depending on how well i like the stock suspension anyway.Good luck in your search!
Later 1.1 do have ARB's front and back (from around 2000 on, mine does anyway 21 on the front, 18 on the back.). There fun too and not that slow for what they are, but I would look for a bigger engine model.
I think sporty models have a bit of a different suspension set up. The GTi has a droplink mounted, thicker ARB than the lower spec models which either have no ARB or a smaller unit attached directly to the wishbones. ARB 22mm on the front, 24mm on the back.
I think sporty models have a bit of a different suspension set up. The GTi has a droplink mounted, thicker ARB than the lower spec models which either have no ARB or a smaller unit attached directly to the wishbones. ARB 22mm on the front, 24mm on the back.
Edited by Noesph on Monday 20th May 23:58
Both 205s and 106's are fairly rust resistant. Places to look in both are bottom of doors at the sill, inner wings, battery tray (easy fix though if battery tray is knackered) and boot floor (slightly scabby is normal, holes=avoid). Significant rust away from these areas indicates previous repair work.
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