Espace/Grand Scenic - reliability?
Discussion
I owned a 2005 3.0 V6 diesel Grand Espace and still miss it. It was a superb car. All of the following comments apply to the Espace and Grand Espace.
The only engine to go for is the 2.0 diesel. You should avoid all others:
The 2.0 diesel versions came relatively late in the model cycle and had all the early bugs ironed out; another reason to go with that engine.
Good things:
It's a shame that Renault stopped selling them and that they have no plans for a replacement. I would have another.
The only engine to go for is the 2.0 diesel. You should avoid all others:
- The 2.2 diesel was a reliability disaster, even by Renault standards; there are numerous stories of people paying thousands to Renault for new engines and still having problems
- The 3.0 V6 diesel is a peach to drive but appears to be fragile, and many garages don't want to work on it due to its complexity
- The 2.0 turbo petrol feels underpowered
- The 3.5 V6 petrol is very thirsty and the very small numbers sold mean that knowledge and parts are hard to come by
The 2.0 diesel versions came relatively late in the model cycle and had all the early bugs ironed out; another reason to go with that engine.
Good things:
- Far and away the best looking MPV ever made.
- The rear seats can be removed completely rather than simply folding into the floor. This gives you a seriously big loading space for when you move house or want to do a tip run.
- Proper full size spare wheel and tool set.
- Excellent ride; very soft and smooth, in the great French luxury tradition.
- The dashboard is a work of art. Even today it looks futuristic.
- Very comfortable to drive and be driven in.
- The rear seats are heavy (more than 20kg each), and if you are taking them out you obviously need somewhere to store them. Getting them in and out is not easy. They do not fold into the floor.
- The key card is fragile, and replacements are expensive.
- Parts are expensive, and generally only available from Renault (there is very little aftermarket). Sometimes there can be delays in getting parts, especially given that the cars are no longer sold.
- The panoramic sunroof is lovely but there are many reports of reliability problems.
It's a shame that Renault stopped selling them and that they have no plans for a replacement. I would have another.
+1 ref the engine. The 2.0 DCi 150 is also a chain drive engine. All the engines mentioned in the previous post are belt. However, I wouldn't agree that the 2.0T 16v engine is underpowered at 165 bhp. It depends what kind of use you need the car for. Also, this is the only petrol with auto or manual box.
The two main differences between Grand Scenic and Grand/Espace is obviously size, and running costs. If you need to seat 7 adults, forget about the Grand Scenic. Its a 5+2 like a Zafira and Picasso are, but being mechanically the same as a Megane, is available with smaller engine options and hence better economy/lower road tax/insurance etc. If its critcal you have auto, you have 2.0 16v petrol and 2.0 Dci 150 (very rare car) to choose from. The 1.6 Auto is only available as the regular Scenic. Also, for a period in 2007, Renault offered the Grand Scenic as a 5 seater - so don't assume they all have 7 seats!
The Espace and Grand Espace are full on 7 seaters, and a great car if you can find a problem free car. A Renault dealer can check any car for any previous warrany claims - probably worth a call prior to buying a potential car.
HTH.
The two main differences between Grand Scenic and Grand/Espace is obviously size, and running costs. If you need to seat 7 adults, forget about the Grand Scenic. Its a 5+2 like a Zafira and Picasso are, but being mechanically the same as a Megane, is available with smaller engine options and hence better economy/lower road tax/insurance etc. If its critcal you have auto, you have 2.0 16v petrol and 2.0 Dci 150 (very rare car) to choose from. The 1.6 Auto is only available as the regular Scenic. Also, for a period in 2007, Renault offered the Grand Scenic as a 5 seater - so don't assume they all have 7 seats!
The Espace and Grand Espace are full on 7 seaters, and a great car if you can find a problem free car. A Renault dealer can check any car for any previous warrany claims - probably worth a call prior to buying a potential car.
HTH.
Well, this seems like a good time for a first post...
I have a 2006/56 2.0dCi Initiale. It's done 37,000 miles. I love it, but it's been expensive. It had front wheel speed sensors and a front track control arm done under warranty.
Since then it's had the drive by wire throttle replaced (both ends), the directional headlamps have had new motors and rear suspension (load levelling) sensors. It's had two new rear wheels under Renault UK "goodwill" because the man in the factory who applies axle grease was out smoking when my car was on the line, and the wheels bonded to the hubs.
Most recently it had an aircon hose go, and Renault said it was a £2k engine-out job to fix. A local independent did it for about £350.
It consumes suspension parts, but that's probably because of the way I drive it (rapidly, in city)
That's the bad stuff...
The good stuff is that it's a great car. It's massively versatile, and the Intiales are loaded with kit. It's quicker than people expect, and each seat is a proper adult-sized affair, which is good for mounting child seats. All the Initiales are "Grand", which adds 12cm behind the rear door. The Grands have a roughly-square rear side window, whereas that window in the non-Grands is much more triangular.
Servicing is usually around £250 annually/every 9,000 miles, plus whichever parts it's eaten in the time. I've gone through two sets of front tyres, one set of rears, and a set of pads & discs in the time I've had it. I'm running Goodyear tyres in summer and Marangoni in winter, but if it's on the OEM Michelin Primacy tyres you can get away without winter tyres. The Goodyears are rubbish in winter. It hasn't blown a single fuse or bulb in the time I've had it. And I've never added a drop of oil in between services.
Renault introduced the auto box on the 2.0dCi some time around 2007/2008. These cars will also have an Aux connector on the stereo for connecting an MP3 player.
Even though I'm planning to get something a whole lot faster to use as a primary car, I'm going to keep my Espace on a low-mileage policy for a good 4-5 years yet. Feel free to ask me anything else you want to know.
I have a 2006/56 2.0dCi Initiale. It's done 37,000 miles. I love it, but it's been expensive. It had front wheel speed sensors and a front track control arm done under warranty.
Since then it's had the drive by wire throttle replaced (both ends), the directional headlamps have had new motors and rear suspension (load levelling) sensors. It's had two new rear wheels under Renault UK "goodwill" because the man in the factory who applies axle grease was out smoking when my car was on the line, and the wheels bonded to the hubs.
Most recently it had an aircon hose go, and Renault said it was a £2k engine-out job to fix. A local independent did it for about £350.
It consumes suspension parts, but that's probably because of the way I drive it (rapidly, in city)
That's the bad stuff...
The good stuff is that it's a great car. It's massively versatile, and the Intiales are loaded with kit. It's quicker than people expect, and each seat is a proper adult-sized affair, which is good for mounting child seats. All the Initiales are "Grand", which adds 12cm behind the rear door. The Grands have a roughly-square rear side window, whereas that window in the non-Grands is much more triangular.
Servicing is usually around £250 annually/every 9,000 miles, plus whichever parts it's eaten in the time. I've gone through two sets of front tyres, one set of rears, and a set of pads & discs in the time I've had it. I'm running Goodyear tyres in summer and Marangoni in winter, but if it's on the OEM Michelin Primacy tyres you can get away without winter tyres. The Goodyears are rubbish in winter. It hasn't blown a single fuse or bulb in the time I've had it. And I've never added a drop of oil in between services.
Renault introduced the auto box on the 2.0dCi some time around 2007/2008. These cars will also have an Aux connector on the stereo for connecting an MP3 player.
Even though I'm planning to get something a whole lot faster to use as a primary car, I'm going to keep my Espace on a low-mileage policy for a good 4-5 years yet. Feel free to ask me anything else you want to know.
At that price point you could perhaps consider a Peugeot 807/Citroen C8. Similar to the Espace in that they are also full size MPVs with a full complement of proper seats. Don't have quite the style of the Espace but not bad looking in their own way (imo) and way, way more reliable. You will also get a lower mileage, more modern, better equipped car for your money.
Edited by Prince Rupert on Friday 6th July 15:33
We have had a 2005 2.2dCi Grand Espace from new: I will happily agree with all of the above, particularly the comment that the 2.2 is a nightmare.
Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
I bought a 1.9dci grand scenic for my wife that we owned for about a year. TBH I was fixing it every weekend, as soon as you fix one thing, the next thing breaks. The strangest thing is that I miss it more than any other car. It was so safe and easy to drive and you could get so much in it. We had some great holidays and trips out in it with the kids and it never actually broke down while on the road (even when it pissed out all its coolant somewhere in Wales and we got to Leicester before noticing). The interior is very well designed for kids, but the engine bay design makes most components very hard to access. Traded it in (for a seat altea) when the turbo was starting to go at 119k.
Oh and I checked with Renault Manchester where it was originally based for list of warranty claims and history (i never trust the stamps), they sent me 3 full A4 pages of work.
Oh and I checked with Renault Manchester where it was originally based for list of warranty claims and history (i never trust the stamps), they sent me 3 full A4 pages of work.
Edited by davebem on Wednesday 5th September 11:26
IroningMan said:
We have had a 2005 2.2dCi Grand Espace from new: I will happily agree with all of the above, particularly the comment that the 2.2 is a nightmare.
Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
Add power steering pump failure to the above list...Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
I've had a grand scenic privilege for two and a half years and love it - great car, no serious problems (usual wear and tear, a few dodgy renault electrical niggles that I sorted myself by searching the web, and one replacement instrument panel @ £150).
Can't recommend them enough! Hoping to keep mine for a while yet.
Can't recommend them enough! Hoping to keep mine for a while yet.
IroningMan said:
IroningMan said:
We have had a 2005 2.2dCi Grand Espace from new: I will happily agree with all of the above, particularly the comment that the 2.2 is a nightmare.
Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
Add power steering pump failure to the above list...Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
My sister has the 1.9 Grand Scenic. Fantastic car for transporting kids and the various amounts of toys, and other kit. Pretty hard wearing interiors, and lots of cubby holes for storage.
Around 70k the Turbo blew which was £900 and then 2 months later the cambelt snapped which in theory was just over when it should have been changed, damaged the valves and piston. Having said that nothing had previously gone wrong, and they loved it so much they have bought a slightly newer Scenic to replace the old car.
Around 70k the Turbo blew which was £900 and then 2 months later the cambelt snapped which in theory was just over when it should have been changed, damaged the valves and piston. Having said that nothing had previously gone wrong, and they loved it so much they have bought a slightly newer Scenic to replace the old car.
IroningMan said:
IroningMan said:
IroningMan said:
We have had a 2005 2.2dCi Grand Espace from new: I will happily agree with all of the above, particularly the comment that the 2.2 is a nightmare.
Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
Add power steering pump failure to the above list...Under warranty:
Keyless entry failure due to condensation inside rear doors.
Clutch master cylinder replaced under recall.
Throttle pedal sender unit failure.
Out of warranty:
EGR valve failure.
Inlet manifold failure.
Worn-out track rod ends.
Worn out steering arm balljoint.
Battery failure.
Alternator failure.
Seized rear brake caliper.
Gearbox failure.
Clutch master cylinder failure.
ABS pump intermittent problem.
Aircon control unit problem.
ARB droplinks worn out.
Sunroof drive jumps and requires resetting periodically.
Front brake discs barely last two sets of pads - at 90k miles the car is on its third set.
The basic concept is so good that I'd seriously consider having another, though: it would have to be a 2.0dCi in Initiale trim with all the available goodies. I can't think of any other car in which I'd cheerfully drive non-stop to the Pyrenees with a family of five and two weeks' worth of holiday gubbins on board.
Off to Renault in search of some goodwill towards a replacement engine - wish me luck.
IroningMan said:
Off to Renault in search of some goodwill towards a replacement engine - wish me luck.
Good luck 
but what are the chances of Renault offering goodwill on an 8 year old engine? Has it got full Renault history from new?It sounds like the car has reached that stage where things are just going to keep going wrong. Even if Renault replace the engine, something else will probably go wrong after that which might end up borking the new engine anyway.
And even if they offered some goodwill, it would surely be better, for both your wallet and your sanity, to scrap it and get a late-model 2.0 dCi. Or just buy another cheap 2.2 dCi to run into the ground. Plenty about for peanuts.
AmitG said:
Good luck but what are the chances of Renault offering goodwill on an 8 year old engine? Has it got full Renault history from new?
It sounds like the car has reached that stage where things are just going to keep going wrong. Even if Renault replace the engine, something else will probably go wrong after that which might end up borking the new engine anyway.
And even if they offered some goodwill, it would surely be better, for both your wallet and your sanity, to scrap it and get a late-model 2.0 dCi.
You're right: it's scrap, frankly, which is irritating given the amount of money we've spent on it in the last few months. In France there is, I think, what amounts to an unlimited warranty on the 2.2dci because of the way that French law treats cars that are not fit for purpose...but no such thing here. but what are the chances of Renault offering goodwill on an 8 year old engine? Has it got full Renault history from new?It sounds like the car has reached that stage where things are just going to keep going wrong. Even if Renault replace the engine, something else will probably go wrong after that which might end up borking the new engine anyway.
And even if they offered some goodwill, it would surely be better, for both your wallet and your sanity, to scrap it and get a late-model 2.0 dCi.
I can't source and fit a replacement engine for less that I could then sell the car for - so unless Renault have something to say it's going to be weighed-in.
Had it been just the engine then we would have considered a 2.0dci to replace it, but since it's also been the brakes, power steering, gearbox and alternator - no chance.
AmitG said:
Or just buy another cheap 2.2 dCi to run into the ground. Plenty about for peanuts.
Odds of finding one that will be reliable for more than a few weeks at a time? Nah. We already have a shed that's on borrowed time - Y-plate SAAB 9-5 on 198k miles - so the Espace needs to be replaced with a grown-up car.
Prince Rupert said:
At that price point you could perhaps consider a Peugeot 807/Citroen C8. Similar to the Espace in that they are also full size MPVs with a full complement of proper seats. Don't have quite the style of the Espace but not bad looking in their own way (imo) and way, way more reliable. You will also get a lower mileage, more modern, better equipped car for your money.
Don't make me laugh, the 807 & C8 are horrendous. Even worse than Renault and that's saying something.Edited by Prince Rupert on Friday 6th July 15:33
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