Clio 200 - disappointment after Test Drive :O(
Discussion
Well, a very interesting day on Saturday.
Got the specifics of my 'perfect 200', ie Ultra Red normal 200, cup suspension, cup spoiler, black Speedlines, black roof, Recaros and carbon interior trim. Happy with the monthly payments, deposit, final payment, etc, so thought i had better drive one ...
Found one local to me, white, non-cup pack, & no-recaros, but thought it would give me a decent enough idea.
So, here's a little overview:
Looks - loved it, perfect proportions, like the vents in the front wings, rear diffuser, etc. Could imagine that with the black speedlines & cup spoiler it would look epic!! Upon closing the boot it was however evident that the clio's build quality/rattles havent really improved ... however, the car is clearer bigger than the 1*2 & a bit more grown up.
Interior - this is where is fell down, really fell down. The plastics are really cheap, thin cheap looking/feeling door cards, a dash that looked like an elephant's ar5e, a glovebox that was flimsy & didnt fit properly and a pretty naff plastic area around the handbrake, gearstick, etc. For me, the 1*2 seems better built, & certainly has a more 'plush' interior with alcantara door cards, seat trim, etc, most importantly, i expect a car designed in the 90's to be naff, not a modern hatchback! Yellow rev counter and relationship between the steering wheel/seat/pedals/gearstick was great though, along with the extra space.
The drive - gutted tbh. Over light steering (not sure if it is any heavier with the cup pack?!!?!?!) really ruins a car for me, & the 200's reminded me of the Ed30 that i had previously, but lighter. Very disappointing when compared to the Trophy, which offers a far more analogue helm. Clutch & gearbox however are superb, the former is considerably lighter, with the latter offering a really close/fast gate more akin to a CTR than the 1*2 it replaces. The engine, well again, a Honda similarity again, i found it similar to the FN2 CTR, smooth revving, easy to hit the limiter, BUT where is the 'kick' that you are waiting for/expecting? Put simply, it didnt feel particularly quick, although that is probably quite deceiving. Refinement was much improved over the 1*2 however.
So? Will i be buying one? Tbh unless somebody can confirm that the cup pack steering is heavier (as well as more direct) than the non-cup pack one, then no, i probably wont be. When asked by the salesmen for my honest opinion, i think he was quite shocked when i said that after that drive, i wouldnt swop my 182k mile Trophy one it, let alone the Trophy and the M3. Never been as gutted about a car to be honest
Someone please tell me the cup-pack steering is heavier like the 1*2? Please.
Got the specifics of my 'perfect 200', ie Ultra Red normal 200, cup suspension, cup spoiler, black Speedlines, black roof, Recaros and carbon interior trim. Happy with the monthly payments, deposit, final payment, etc, so thought i had better drive one ...
Found one local to me, white, non-cup pack, & no-recaros, but thought it would give me a decent enough idea.
So, here's a little overview:
Looks - loved it, perfect proportions, like the vents in the front wings, rear diffuser, etc. Could imagine that with the black speedlines & cup spoiler it would look epic!! Upon closing the boot it was however evident that the clio's build quality/rattles havent really improved ... however, the car is clearer bigger than the 1*2 & a bit more grown up.
Interior - this is where is fell down, really fell down. The plastics are really cheap, thin cheap looking/feeling door cards, a dash that looked like an elephant's ar5e, a glovebox that was flimsy & didnt fit properly and a pretty naff plastic area around the handbrake, gearstick, etc. For me, the 1*2 seems better built, & certainly has a more 'plush' interior with alcantara door cards, seat trim, etc, most importantly, i expect a car designed in the 90's to be naff, not a modern hatchback! Yellow rev counter and relationship between the steering wheel/seat/pedals/gearstick was great though, along with the extra space.
The drive - gutted tbh. Over light steering (not sure if it is any heavier with the cup pack?!!?!?!) really ruins a car for me, & the 200's reminded me of the Ed30 that i had previously, but lighter. Very disappointing when compared to the Trophy, which offers a far more analogue helm. Clutch & gearbox however are superb, the former is considerably lighter, with the latter offering a really close/fast gate more akin to a CTR than the 1*2 it replaces. The engine, well again, a Honda similarity again, i found it similar to the FN2 CTR, smooth revving, easy to hit the limiter, BUT where is the 'kick' that you are waiting for/expecting? Put simply, it didnt feel particularly quick, although that is probably quite deceiving. Refinement was much improved over the 1*2 however.
So? Will i be buying one? Tbh unless somebody can confirm that the cup pack steering is heavier (as well as more direct) than the non-cup pack one, then no, i probably wont be. When asked by the salesmen for my honest opinion, i think he was quite shocked when i said that after that drive, i wouldnt swop my 182k mile Trophy one it, let alone the Trophy and the M3. Never been as gutted about a car to be honest
Someone please tell me the cup-pack steering is heavier like the 1*2? Please.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/2...
"The standard 200 has 15 per cent softer dampers than its 197 predecessor, while the 200 Cup’s items are 15 per cent stiffer than the 197 Cup’s. Compared to the standard 200, a 200 Cup boasts 27 per cent stiffer front springs, 30 per cent rear while the anti-roll bar is 10 per cent stiffer and the ride height 7mm lower. The steering rack ratio is 7.5 per cent quicker."
Have a try in the Meg 250 if you can. Interior is much better than the Clio. Performance better for everyday driving as well e.g. more torque in more places.
"The standard 200 has 15 per cent softer dampers than its 197 predecessor, while the 200 Cup’s items are 15 per cent stiffer than the 197 Cup’s. Compared to the standard 200, a 200 Cup boasts 27 per cent stiffer front springs, 30 per cent rear while the anti-roll bar is 10 per cent stiffer and the ride height 7mm lower. The steering rack ratio is 7.5 per cent quicker."
Have a try in the Meg 250 if you can. Interior is much better than the Clio. Performance better for everyday driving as well e.g. more torque in more places.
Edited by Ginger goblin on Monday 27th February 14:07
Edited by Ginger goblin on Monday 27th February 14:15
Try a cupped car. A friend of mine who's a car journalist, so gets to drive loads of different cars, really rates the steering feel of my cupped 200. I'll be honest I've not driven a non cup/ped, but I got mine after my Clio Trophy and though it's not quite as 'raw', it's certainly not a poor car. It wins every test it enters in the press.
As for the megane, yes it's more useable more of the time, but to reach the exciting part you'll be losing your license compared to the Clio. Also it's less involved in my eyes as you can just ride the wave of torque, the Clio needs to be driven hard to get the best from it. But I guess it depends what floats your boat
As for the megane, yes it's more useable more of the time, but to reach the exciting part you'll be losing your license compared to the Clio. Also it's less involved in my eyes as you can just ride the wave of torque, the Clio needs to be driven hard to get the best from it. But I guess it depends what floats your boat
Definately try a Cupped car.
I'd say try a Megane too, but yes it's a different feel from the Clio. I came from a Fiesta ST185 to a Megane 250 Cup and I didn't feel I lost any of the fun. You don't get that cracking exhaust note that you do in the Clio, but the car handles brilliantly and is incredibly predictable. You can get lots of controllable slip when you're on the limit, and the LSD just pulls you through corners you'd otherwise just understeer past.
I'd say try a Megane too, but yes it's a different feel from the Clio. I came from a Fiesta ST185 to a Megane 250 Cup and I didn't feel I lost any of the fun. You don't get that cracking exhaust note that you do in the Clio, but the car handles brilliantly and is incredibly predictable. You can get lots of controllable slip when you're on the limit, and the LSD just pulls you through corners you'd otherwise just understeer past.
Not sure what you mean about the steering, I think it's spot on. The quickness of the rack is amazing and it has great feel. I have the Full fat with Cup Pack so maybe the steering is heavier due to the different dampers. These cars are quick when you are revving it. I don't do the traffic light grand prix thing because that's not what these cars are about. I have done a couple of track days and they come alive. The brakes all of a sudden make sense, the grip, the turn-in are amazing. It is quicker than my previous 111s Elise. As far as the interior is concerned, I don't think it is any better or worse than any of the other cars in it's class. It is what it is, a Clio not a BMW. I'm no fan of the gearbox and find the clutch difficult to get a clean get away but all is forgiven when driving it in a spirited fashion or when on track.
I think i'm going to have to try another one tbh, whilst the steering in the 200 is electric vs the hydraulic rack in my Trophy, it surely cant be as bad i experienced on all of them - could be a lemon?!
Re: the Megane, strange as it may sound, i would happily change the M3/Trophy for another small, fun, hot hatch, but the Megane doesnt do anything for me tbh. Apart from the R26, but they look flipping awful lol.
Its more likely that i'll get a 2nd hand Clio in 12 months time though tbh, the reality of spending 20 grand on a car with an interior made by French people gave me a bit of a reality check
Re: the Megane, strange as it may sound, i would happily change the M3/Trophy for another small, fun, hot hatch, but the Megane doesnt do anything for me tbh. Apart from the R26, but they look flipping awful lol.
Its more likely that i'll get a 2nd hand Clio in 12 months time though tbh, the reality of spending 20 grand on a car with an interior made by French people gave me a bit of a reality check
Sir_Dave said:
I think i'm going to have to try another one tbh, whilst the steering in the 200 is electric vs the hydraulic rack in my Trophy, it surely cant be as bad i experienced on all of them - could be a lemon?!
Re: the Megane, strange as it may sound, i would happily change the M3/Trophy for another small, fun, hot hatch, but the Megane doesnt do anything for me tbh. Apart from the R26, but they look flipping awful lol.
Its more likely that i'll get a 2nd hand Clio in 12 months time though tbh, the reality of spending 20 grand on a car with an interior made by French people gave me a bit of a reality check
One of my biggest criticisms about the 197 has always been the steering feel. It's plop. I came to the 197 from a mk1 Clio 16v for reference.Re: the Megane, strange as it may sound, i would happily change the M3/Trophy for another small, fun, hot hatch, but the Megane doesnt do anything for me tbh. Apart from the R26, but they look flipping awful lol.
Its more likely that i'll get a 2nd hand Clio in 12 months time though tbh, the reality of spending 20 grand on a car with an interior made by French people gave me a bit of a reality check
I found it's improved significantly however, following a switch to RE050s. The Contis are just plain dump. I first switched to F1 Asymmetrics and immediatley noticed an improvement - less sudden loss of traction, a little more forgiving and a little more feel. But the RE050's are a significant improvement again.
It doesn't feel that quick, and whilst at first I thought the comments about torque were unfounded, I have found it frustrating in 2nd gear corners. It's definitely more of a fast B/A road car than the mk1 and 2 which I found much more at home in the really twisty stuff. It's when you get up to those higher speeds and direction changes that you'll really be impressed.
But in the real world those sorts of thrills are fewer and further between. I miss my mk1 mainly because I could have hilarious fun at mostly legal speeds.
Last thing that bugs me is I think the first 5-10 degrees of lock just aren't quick enough. When I had mine serviced last year they gave me a new shape Fiesta 1.4TDCI courtesy car and it felt sharp as a tack by comparison. It was all because of that first few degrees of lock - although I was led to believe they'd improved this on the 200 Cup pack cars, over the 197.
Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Wednesday 29th February 13:37
h4muf said:
It sounds like you've been spoilt! (M3 Trophy and Type R?) No wonder!
Ha, never bought the CTR, but have owned a few gems over the years 2 x 106 Gti's, 306 Rallye, Saxo Vts, Z3M, Golf Edition 30, 2 x 328i Sports, 3 x 330ci Sports, 2 x Clio Trophy's, a 182, a 172 cup and the e46 M3.
Currently have the M3, 330 & Trophy, which tbh, is a little daft, hence looking at the 200's to 'downsize' ... gonna try & find a 3dr 130i to drive as well, that might combine the build of the BMW's, with the fun of a 'hot hatch'.
The wife recently got a 120D Msport Dave, after a Xsara VTS for years. Even in 120D form they're a crackign driver's car. It's a sad indictment but when she's away I take her car over the 197
I'd love a 130i, or a 125/135 coupe myself. With over 60k on the clocks and being only 2 months older than my 197, which has 40k on the clocks, the difference in build quality is remarkable!
I'd love a 130i, or a 125/135 coupe myself. With over 60k on the clocks and being only 2 months older than my 197, which has 40k on the clocks, the difference in build quality is remarkable!
Jimmy No Hands said:
It was that bad you time travelled back wards to sell it?
I'm going to test drive a 200 next week. Going in with eyes open. Not sure what it'll be like coming from a Z4..
Yeah, pretty much lol. Slight typo, meant 24th April I'm going to test drive a 200 next week. Going in with eyes open. Not sure what it'll be like coming from a Z4..
It wasnt bad as such, just nowhere near as good as the 182 imho.
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