Citroen C4 Grand Picasso
Discussion
I'm considering one of these, probably the 2.0 diesel EGS in Exclusive trim. It would be great to hear any opinions and/or real-world ownership stories. Particularly any info on what starts to wrong as the age and mileage build up, ownership costs, common faults etc.
I'm looking for something that can transport large amounts of stuff long distances, but which has a bit of style and panache. I've looked at lots of MPVs and estate cars, and keep coming back to the Citroen because it looks so good.
The Peugeot 5008 is substantially the same car, but it's pricier and the design lacks IMHO the Gallic flair of the Citroen. The Renault Grand Scenic is more expensive and now only available with weedy engines, plus I don't like the looks of the facelifted version. The Grand Espace is no longer available. The Ford S-Max is nice, but too expensive when you factor in the options. The Vauxhall Zafira Tourer is a possibility but I didn't like the interior design much.
I had a good poke around at my local Citroen dealer and was generally impressed. It does seem well thought out and generally fit for purpose. The dashboard is digital and centrally mounted like my old Grand Espace. The general quality does not feel up to that of the Espace but it will probably do. The panoramic sunroof is pretty cool. There is ample boot space with rear seats down. Parts prices seem reasonable. The EGS takes a bit of getting used to (it seems that it's an automated manual rather than an auto, so no creep on idle) but I can live with it.
I'm generally not a fan of diesel, but it seems that very few petrol Picassos get sold, and so I figure there is probably more expertise out there with the diesels. Also, I've heard bad things about the 1.6 turbo petrol engine with cars requiring new engines under warranty.
Normally I would never buy new, but there are not many Exclusives in the used market, and it seems that a new one can be had with a massive discount off RRP, which puts it into "nearly new" territory price wise anyway.
I keep being told there is an all-new one out this year but I don't know if that's true. I think it just got facelifted for 2012 anyway.
Any thoughts welcomed
I'm looking for something that can transport large amounts of stuff long distances, but which has a bit of style and panache. I've looked at lots of MPVs and estate cars, and keep coming back to the Citroen because it looks so good.
The Peugeot 5008 is substantially the same car, but it's pricier and the design lacks IMHO the Gallic flair of the Citroen. The Renault Grand Scenic is more expensive and now only available with weedy engines, plus I don't like the looks of the facelifted version. The Grand Espace is no longer available. The Ford S-Max is nice, but too expensive when you factor in the options. The Vauxhall Zafira Tourer is a possibility but I didn't like the interior design much.
I had a good poke around at my local Citroen dealer and was generally impressed. It does seem well thought out and generally fit for purpose. The dashboard is digital and centrally mounted like my old Grand Espace. The general quality does not feel up to that of the Espace but it will probably do. The panoramic sunroof is pretty cool. There is ample boot space with rear seats down. Parts prices seem reasonable. The EGS takes a bit of getting used to (it seems that it's an automated manual rather than an auto, so no creep on idle) but I can live with it.
I'm generally not a fan of diesel, but it seems that very few petrol Picassos get sold, and so I figure there is probably more expertise out there with the diesels. Also, I've heard bad things about the 1.6 turbo petrol engine with cars requiring new engines under warranty.
Normally I would never buy new, but there are not many Exclusives in the used market, and it seems that a new one can be had with a massive discount off RRP, which puts it into "nearly new" territory price wise anyway.
I keep being told there is an all-new one out this year but I don't know if that's true. I think it just got facelifted for 2012 anyway.
Any thoughts welcomed
The GC4 Pic is a great car, won all the awards for best MPV .
The 2.0Hdi is a great engine, no issues and you will get between 44-50mpg most of the time. Plenty of pull and no faults. I thrash mine hard and never had a single issue.
I would go for the diesel over the petrols.
EGS - A personal choice, there is no manual in the exclusive, but.....
Have you considered the VTR+ ?
The seats are not as nice, but big offers for March. NO VAT and 0% finance plus you can have it in 6speed manual box.
Dont expect it to corner like a sports car and you'll be fine.
Looks good in black
The only other car on your list I would consider is the S-Max, but Ford have gone silly with prices.
Oh and NO, there will not be a new one this year. But if you dont need the seating capacity there will be a new Citroen C4-Aircross out at the end of the year.
The 2.0Hdi is a great engine, no issues and you will get between 44-50mpg most of the time. Plenty of pull and no faults. I thrash mine hard and never had a single issue.
I would go for the diesel over the petrols.
EGS - A personal choice, there is no manual in the exclusive, but.....
Have you considered the VTR+ ?
The seats are not as nice, but big offers for March. NO VAT and 0% finance plus you can have it in 6speed manual box.
Dont expect it to corner like a sports car and you'll be fine.
Looks good in black
The only other car on your list I would consider is the S-Max, but Ford have gone silly with prices.
Oh and NO, there will not be a new one this year. But if you dont need the seating capacity there will be a new Citroen C4-Aircross out at the end of the year.
Edited by xkrGiles on Sunday 19th February 10:54
We have a 1.8 Petrol 2008 VTR+ and love it. 16,000 mile so far and no faults and it's never missed a bit.
Very nice and comfy to drive and I find it very relaxing. The speed limiter function is great when travelling down roads with speed cameras as it means you don't have to constantly keep check of your speed.
Driving posistion is one of the best out of all the cars I've driven however if you raise the seat too much your head gets very close to the sun visors due to the panaramic windscreen.
The electric handbrake is great once you get used to it and along with the hill assist makes hill starts a doddle. The only thing I'm not keen on is the button to engage the handbrake is a bit of a stretch.
Build quality wise it's not as good as ze German's but Citroen have very cleverly ensured the bits that are touched and abused the most are up to scratch. It's only the bits that are out of reach and out of the way that you notice have a bit of a cheap feel to them. The doors do shut with a very satisfying clunk but the same can't be said for the boot.
The only thing I can fault with the car is the suspension. It's very soft but it still seems to crash a little over speed bumps. However on the Executive trim it's pneumatic on the rear so it may not be a problem for you.
We looked at other cars but we loved the quirkiness of the Citroen and it seems very well built and a very good car. 16,000 miles isn't a lot but so far like I said it hasn't missed a beat and it still feels brand new and it even still has that new car smell.
Very nice and comfy to drive and I find it very relaxing. The speed limiter function is great when travelling down roads with speed cameras as it means you don't have to constantly keep check of your speed.
Driving posistion is one of the best out of all the cars I've driven however if you raise the seat too much your head gets very close to the sun visors due to the panaramic windscreen.
The electric handbrake is great once you get used to it and along with the hill assist makes hill starts a doddle. The only thing I'm not keen on is the button to engage the handbrake is a bit of a stretch.
Build quality wise it's not as good as ze German's but Citroen have very cleverly ensured the bits that are touched and abused the most are up to scratch. It's only the bits that are out of reach and out of the way that you notice have a bit of a cheap feel to them. The doors do shut with a very satisfying clunk but the same can't be said for the boot.
The only thing I can fault with the car is the suspension. It's very soft but it still seems to crash a little over speed bumps. However on the Executive trim it's pneumatic on the rear so it may not be a problem for you.
We looked at other cars but we loved the quirkiness of the Citroen and it seems very well built and a very good car. 16,000 miles isn't a lot but so far like I said it hasn't missed a beat and it still feels brand new and it even still has that new car smell.
Amit,
Have you of any further with this project, I have been looking at these too. I rented one a couple of years ago and spent a comfortable couple of weeks in it I cant remember what the exact model was that we had but it had the auto and pneumatic suspension so may have been an exclusive, I was quite impressed and I am looking at chopping in our Jeep, for something a little less thirsty, we don't really need the 4x4 capability these days.
Did you go new or used or have you gone elsewhere?
Have you of any further with this project, I have been looking at these too. I rented one a couple of years ago and spent a comfortable couple of weeks in it I cant remember what the exact model was that we had but it had the auto and pneumatic suspension so may have been an exclusive, I was quite impressed and I am looking at chopping in our Jeep, for something a little less thirsty, we don't really need the 4x4 capability these days.
Did you go new or used or have you gone elsewhere?
I went out for a drive in a C4GP a couple of weeks ago and was generally impressed. The 2.0 litre diesel engine has IMHO enough power for everything you are likely to do on UK public roads. It's roomy, quiet and has masses of space. It seems generally well made although I thought the interior quality could be a little bit better for what (in Exclusive form, and at full RRP) is a £25K car.
I felt that it was a bit harder to judge the position of the car compared to my old Espace, probably due to the curvy shape. But I don't see C4GPs with parking scuffs everywhere so I am sure it just takes getting used to.
The Espace-style centre digital dash is nice, but again takes a bit of getting used to. The audio system is a bit tinny, but OK for a car in this segment. The EGS gearbox was not as smooth as it could be, but I'm really nit picking now. That is pretty much the sum total of my negative feedback. No deal breakers.
The people who buy them seem to like them, and a high percentage of sales seem to be repeat purchases.
I am going to take a look at the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer when it comes out. This looks similar to the C4GP size and price wise once you factor in discounts and a few options.
I will then make a final decision. If I go for either of these, it will be new with the expectation of a sizable discount.
The wild card possibility is a used Chrysler Grand Voyager (08 onwards model) which a local used car dealer is prepared to source for me. This is a lovely car - leather everywhere, better sound system etc. - but I've heard of reliability issues, and it's bloody huge.
If your one had pneumatic rear suspension it must have been an Exclusive.
Will let everyone know what I do and why.
I felt that it was a bit harder to judge the position of the car compared to my old Espace, probably due to the curvy shape. But I don't see C4GPs with parking scuffs everywhere so I am sure it just takes getting used to.
The Espace-style centre digital dash is nice, but again takes a bit of getting used to. The audio system is a bit tinny, but OK for a car in this segment. The EGS gearbox was not as smooth as it could be, but I'm really nit picking now. That is pretty much the sum total of my negative feedback. No deal breakers.
The people who buy them seem to like them, and a high percentage of sales seem to be repeat purchases.
I am going to take a look at the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer when it comes out. This looks similar to the C4GP size and price wise once you factor in discounts and a few options.
I will then make a final decision. If I go for either of these, it will be new with the expectation of a sizable discount.
The wild card possibility is a used Chrysler Grand Voyager (08 onwards model) which a local used car dealer is prepared to source for me. This is a lovely car - leather everywhere, better sound system etc. - but I've heard of reliability issues, and it's bloody huge.
If your one had pneumatic rear suspension it must have been an Exclusive.
Will let everyone know what I do and why.
AmitG said:
The wild card possibility is a used Chrysler Grand Voyager (08 onwards model) which a local used car dealer is prepared to source for me. This is a lovely car - leather everywhere, better sound system etc. - but I've heard of reliability issues, and it's bloody huge.
Avoid! Huge reliability issues - I had one and it was a dog with electrical gremlins that the only fix was a new loom. Then a friend got one on a 08 plate, and it broke down after 2 days with a sensor/electrical fault. I wouldn't touch one with the s
tty end of a pointy stick TBH!Whilst on topic, I've looked at the Grand Picasso for the family bus, but have a much more modest budget of about 7k which seems to buy quite alot of used GP. However, I must have a diesel, and most in the this price bracket seem to be the 1.6tdi. How does this shape up?
wiliferus said:
AmitG said:
The wild card possibility is a used Chrysler Grand Voyager (08 onwards model) which a local used car dealer is prepared to source for me. This is a lovely car - leather everywhere, better sound system etc. - but I've heard of reliability issues, and it's bloody huge.
Avoid! Huge reliability issues - I had one and it was a dog with electrical gremlins that the only fix was a new loom. Then a friend got one on a 08 plate, and it broke down after 2 days with a sensor/electrical fault. I wouldn't touch one with the stty end of a pointy stick TBH!Whilst on topic, I've looked at the Grand Picasso for the family bus, but have a much more modest budget of about 7k which seems to buy quite a lot of used GP. However, I must have a diesel, and most in the this price bracket seem to be the 1.6tdi. How does this shape up?
The thing to look out for the most with cars of this budget and age is the transmission. The automatic DSG style gearboxes were notoriously jerky and would sometimes bog down in the middle of a junction.
Citroen did release several software updates to rectify thee problem but owners were still complaining of problems even after the fixes.
If you do look at one with the flappy paddle gearbox make sure you test drive it thoroughly and do a few full throttle starts from standstill.
Of course you can avoid the DSG box altogether and get a manual which is what I did.
Citroen did do a normal style automatic when the car was first released but very few were sold and they are very hard to find.
I can't recommend the car enough and I'm always suggesting them to people looking for a car of this nature but as with all cars they do have certain issues but that shouldn't put you off what is a great car.
Edited by TheTurbonator on Friday 9th March 09:33
With all the issues with diesels generally I'm now considering the 1.6 turbo petrol. Performance on paper looks similar to the 2.0 diesel, and it's a lot cheaper. I would much prefer a petrol. Anticipated mileage is no more than 20K per year.
I hear stories of major failures with this engine, but AFAIK it's the same engine that's used in the Mini, and BMW have sold vast quantities of those, so it can't be that bad surely? With any engine sold in these quantities there are bound to be some tales of woe.
Thanks wiliferus for the comment about the Grand Voyager. This and the C4GP are the only MPVs on sale today that IMHO are even remotely interesting. On the one hand, getting leather everywhere, 3-zone air con, electric everything (even doors), Bose audio etc. on a 3-year old car for the same price as a new C4GP (assuming reasonable discount) is tempting. On the other hand, wiliferus's horror story isn't the first one I've heard.
I hear stories of major failures with this engine, but AFAIK it's the same engine that's used in the Mini, and BMW have sold vast quantities of those, so it can't be that bad surely? With any engine sold in these quantities there are bound to be some tales of woe.
Thanks wiliferus for the comment about the Grand Voyager. This and the C4GP are the only MPVs on sale today that IMHO are even remotely interesting. On the one hand, getting leather everywhere, 3-zone air con, electric everything (even doors), Bose audio etc. on a 3-year old car for the same price as a new C4GP (assuming reasonable discount) is tempting. On the other hand, wiliferus's horror story isn't the first one I've heard.
1.6 THP petrol is a strong and revvy engine. I have it in my DS4 at the moment, and it takes alot of hard driving.
The only issue was a few of the engines vented oil vapour back into the air intake which caused smoke & oil burn in the cylinders.
This was identified and rectified a year ago. Those affected were offered new replacement complete engines.
In summary there should not be an issue.
Millions of these engines are being used in Pug 207's 308's Mini's BMW's DS3's DS4's, DS5's etc etc
I drive mine hard and fast, still returns 32mpg at the worst. Steady "A" road driving has shown me 40mpg.
The only issue was a few of the engines vented oil vapour back into the air intake which caused smoke & oil burn in the cylinders.
This was identified and rectified a year ago. Those affected were offered new replacement complete engines.
In summary there should not be an issue.
Millions of these engines are being used in Pug 207's 308's Mini's BMW's DS3's DS4's, DS5's etc etc
I drive mine hard and fast, still returns 32mpg at the worst. Steady "A" road driving has shown me 40mpg.
Hired a 2.0 diesel on a two week holiday touring France and Spain last summer. Did around 3000km in total. Very good 4 up fuel economy IIRC 6.0/100km
Easy to drive on difficult roads. Coped with all we used it for and was quiet and comfortable. Showed it' age in comparison the C3 Picasso we had the year before in the same regions though = that's a fantastic MPV but much smaller.
Our taxi lady had a C4 and took it to over 200k with no real problems. Client has a older one too and rates it highly as a family workhorse. All had usual rattly/plastic/broken trim bits but that's standard on any French car.
Easy to drive on difficult roads. Coped with all we used it for and was quiet and comfortable. Showed it' age in comparison the C3 Picasso we had the year before in the same regions though = that's a fantastic MPV but much smaller.
Our taxi lady had a C4 and took it to over 200k with no real problems. Client has a older one too and rates it highly as a family workhorse. All had usual rattly/plastic/broken trim bits but that's standard on any French car.
The Wife has a C4 Grand Picasso, a 1.6 diesel VTR+ manual (the Wife doesn't like auto/DSG), it goes better than I thought it would considering the small engine and gets around 46 mpg which is very good for big vehicle.
We've had it 2 years, serviced once and nothing had no problems yet, feels a bit 'economy class' compared to the Galaxy she had before but, despite feeling more solid, the Galaxy was always going wrong, even in the first year of ownership.
I drove it to the south of France last summer with family & lots of luggage in the back and it did the job fine but as said above felt a bit 'budget' particularly the droning noise of the engine at a cruise-controlled 85mph (like being on a long flight).
Not as dynamic to drive as a Galaxy but an efficient people carrier that can double up as a small van on demand and is and very economical to run.
We've had it 2 years, serviced once and nothing had no problems yet, feels a bit 'economy class' compared to the Galaxy she had before but, despite feeling more solid, the Galaxy was always going wrong, even in the first year of ownership.
I drove it to the south of France last summer with family & lots of luggage in the back and it did the job fine but as said above felt a bit 'budget' particularly the droning noise of the engine at a cruise-controlled 85mph (like being on a long flight).
Not as dynamic to drive as a Galaxy but an efficient people carrier that can double up as a small van on demand and is and very economical to run.
As a first time poster, long time lurker finally getting round to joining I want to shout how much I miss my GP.
I had a 2.0HDI Exclusive, bought it at a year old, I wanted a new one but after finding I didn't have enough I went for a 1 yr old 08 plate (I originally wanted a 1.6HDI and found one but the dealer refused to sell me it saying that he was waiting for someone who said that they definitely wanted it but was coming back a few days later with a deposit, which I had in my hand ready).
This car is a must for anyone wanting a nice big 7 seater that can pile on the miles, 52-55mpg on the Mway, the sunvisor that pushes right up into the roof to let more light in, the climate control is good (apart from the inbuilt air freshener), the EGS box takes a bit of getting used to apparently I was told was that it was a learning gearbox in that it would learn your driving style and adapt accordingly in the way of how quickly it changes up or down (dunno if that is true).
In the 2 years that I owned it, all it needed was 2 headlight bulbs apart from the obvious services of course. The speed limiter function was brilliant, so was the way the wheel hub stayed as the wheel was turned. The only gripes I had were that certain GP's had a grinding/squeaking noise as you braked when reversing (Citroen knew it was down to the shape of the pads on the rear calipers scraping but wouldn't admit it or change it) and that after one arguement with the wife, she slammed the door and the car refused to start, it was down to the fact that she slammed the door so hard that it had tripped the fuel cut off and cue a phone call to the dealer asking how to start the car.
I ended up trading down to a 3.3 Grand Voyager on a Y plate in the aim of LPG converting it, the car lasted three months before it threw a wobbler and everything went including the Gearbox.
I had a 2.0HDI Exclusive, bought it at a year old, I wanted a new one but after finding I didn't have enough I went for a 1 yr old 08 plate (I originally wanted a 1.6HDI and found one but the dealer refused to sell me it saying that he was waiting for someone who said that they definitely wanted it but was coming back a few days later with a deposit, which I had in my hand ready).
This car is a must for anyone wanting a nice big 7 seater that can pile on the miles, 52-55mpg on the Mway, the sunvisor that pushes right up into the roof to let more light in, the climate control is good (apart from the inbuilt air freshener), the EGS box takes a bit of getting used to apparently I was told was that it was a learning gearbox in that it would learn your driving style and adapt accordingly in the way of how quickly it changes up or down (dunno if that is true).
In the 2 years that I owned it, all it needed was 2 headlight bulbs apart from the obvious services of course. The speed limiter function was brilliant, so was the way the wheel hub stayed as the wheel was turned. The only gripes I had were that certain GP's had a grinding/squeaking noise as you braked when reversing (Citroen knew it was down to the shape of the pads on the rear calipers scraping but wouldn't admit it or change it) and that after one arguement with the wife, she slammed the door and the car refused to start, it was down to the fact that she slammed the door so hard that it had tripped the fuel cut off and cue a phone call to the dealer asking how to start the car.
I ended up trading down to a 3.3 Grand Voyager on a Y plate in the aim of LPG converting it, the car lasted three months before it threw a wobbler and everything went including the Gearbox.
AmitG said:
I keep being told there is an all-new one out this year but I don't know if that's true. I think it just got facelifted for 2012 anyway.
Any thoughts welcomed
I doubt an all new is on the way. There was no sign of even a concept on the stand at the Paris show, which is where PSA would launch a big seller like the C4GP. Any thoughts welcomed
I would personally go for the manual. The EGS is an OKish box, but only if you dont have a manual licence. Otherwise it is sluggish to change, indecisive in Auto mode and lacks the benefits of a proper auto box. It is the worst of all worlds.
swanny200 said:
The new GP is supposed to be 2013 with the normal one next year (apparently the new picasso was supposed to be at Paris but wasn't).
http://carscoop.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/spied-next-citroen-c4-picasso-minivan.html?m=1Edited by TheTurbonator on Tuesday 9th October 00:05
Just brought and had a test drive seemed ok, gear change seems a bit? not like a smooth auto, apparently different type of gear box, no torque converter, 2013 plate C4 e-hdi edition Grand Picasso,1600 diesel, ex mobility 16k on the clock, be interested to hear any opinions on this car ?? thanks
AmitG said:
With all the issues with diesels generally I'm now considering the 1.6 turbo petrol. Performance on paper looks similar to the 2.0 diesel, and it's a lot cheaper. I would much prefer a petrol. Anticipated mileage is no more than 20K per year.
I hear stories of major failures with this engine, but AFAIK it's the same engine that's used in the Mini, and BMW have sold vast quantities of those, so it can't be that bad surely? With any engine sold in these quantities there are bound to be some tales of woe.
Thanks wiliferus for the comment about the Grand Voyager. This and the C4GP are the only MPVs on sale today that IMHO are even remotely interesting. On the one hand, getting leather everywhere, 3-zone air con, electric everything (even doors), Bose audio etc. on a 3-year old car for the same price as a new C4GP (assuming reasonable discount) is tempting. On the other hand, wiliferus's horror story isn't the first one I've heard.
You have no idea how bad this engine really is. It is in so many cars and all of them suffer badly across the ranges. Volvo, BMW/Mini, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford, Mazda...I hear stories of major failures with this engine, but AFAIK it's the same engine that's used in the Mini, and BMW have sold vast quantities of those, so it can't be that bad surely? With any engine sold in these quantities there are bound to be some tales of woe.
Thanks wiliferus for the comment about the Grand Voyager. This and the C4GP are the only MPVs on sale today that IMHO are even remotely interesting. On the one hand, getting leather everywhere, 3-zone air con, electric everything (even doors), Bose audio etc. on a 3-year old car for the same price as a new C4GP (assuming reasonable discount) is tempting. On the other hand, wiliferus's horror story isn't the first one I've heard.
We bought a C4 VTR+ EGS at the start of this year, ten year old with 60k and full history (8 stamps, so well under mileage on oil changes), which everyone will tell you is super important when buying one of these engined cars. Car lasted less than 3 month before we scrapped it. It was a stunning looking car and was exceptional on fuel while it worked. 70mpg on a drive to Cornwall.
Oil pump failed with no warning and we were quoted over 2k to repair. The amount of garages that said they wouldn't even touch it to work on, even if we had of wanted to repair...
They are such a fragile engine.
I would tell anyone to avoid this engine in any model, just google the 1.6HDi to get page after page of horror stories.
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