Clio 182 or Citroen C2 VTS - first car?

[Daggerpie]

Guys, the wife is taking her UK driving test soon so soon to be looking at a first car for her.

Just looking at overall options really, she's 32 years old, professional and has driven for about 7 years (accident free) over in Goa India. This will be her first time actually driving in the UK so I'm thinking a small, relatively nippy little car just for the first year to build up the No Claims etc..

Ideally, she'd love a Clio 200 or Fiat 500 Abarth but I'm putting my foot down worried about any dings,kerbing and obviously insurance for her first year driving in UK.

What are your thoughts on a 5K Clio 182 vs Citroen VTS (also possibly a Panda 100hp)? Is insurance still going to be high on the Clio 182, or if we went down the Renault root is it worth paying a few grand more for a Clio 197 instead?

Any thoughts?

[Tuna44]

Daggerpie said:

Guys, the wife is taking her UK driving test soon so soon to be looking at a first car for her.

Just looking at overall options really, she's 32 years old, professional and has driven for about 7 years (accident free) over in Goa India. This will be her first time actually driving in the UK so I'm thinking a small, relatively nippy little car just for the first year to build up the No Claims etc..

Ideally, she'd love a Clio 200 or Fiat 500 Abarth but I'm putting my foot down worried about any dings,kerbing and obviously insurance for her first year driving in UK.

What are your thoughts on a 5K Clio 182 vs Citroen VTS (also possibly a Panda 100hp)? Is insurance still going to be high on the Clio 182, or if we went down the Renault root is it worth paying a few grand more for a Clio 197 instead?

Any thoughts?

Clio 182's are fantastic cars, thoroughly rewarding to drive and very characterful, I'm by no means an expert on them but my two penniesworth is make sure its had the cam belt done as this is a very costly job on the MK 2's roughly £300-400, iirc, I believe it's every 40k-50k or every 4-5 years or so, whichever comes first. Thus a decent proportion are coming up to needing their second done. If its a daily and you're not a massively keen driver then don't bother going for the Cup, its is fantastic in the corners but at the price of a harsh ride and is fairly bumpy, if you can live with the ride though, go for it, I've lived with my Cup for 6 months now and never looked back.

Also, I'm pretty sure 182's have taken a big price tumble as of late, are they really 5k? Or were you looking specifically at minters?

With regards to insurance, the insurance of both the 197 and the 182 is going to be more than any of the other cars you have considered, but in fairness they are the fastest and both have the credentials that yield higher insurance groups.

I'd go for the Clio over the C2 VTS, the C2 is a decent car, handles perfectly well, engine is fine, but its nothing amazing, and I wouldn't say it was as rewarding to drive as the Clio.

Panda 100HP, I also looked at when considering my last car. Decent build quality, lots of kit, tiny insurance group, and cheap to buy! They handle well and the 1.4 is lovely and revvy, obviously wont have the performance of the Clio or the C2 but they are excellent little cars. The 6th gear is also a bonus if you plan on doing any motorway miles, its rare for a little warm hatch to have one, certainly the likes of the Clio/C2/Saxo/Swift Sport/Twingo RS/Abarth 500 don't have them and cruising at 4k motorway speeds can become tiresome.


Are you settled on solely these cars? Or would you consider a Twingo RS (I can thoroughly recommend ), Swift Sport, Lupo Gti, or even an R56 cooper s? All of which are very good cars.

[Daggerpie]

Tuna44 said:

Clio 182's are fantastic cars, thoroughly rewarding to drive and very characterful, I'm by no means an expert on them but my two penniesworth is make sure its had the cam belt done as this is a very costly job on the MK 2's roughly £300-400, iirc, I believe it's every 40k-50k or every 4-5 years or so, whichever comes first. Thus a decent proportion are coming up to needing their second done. If its a daily and you're not a massively keen driver then don't bother going for the Cup, its is fantastic in the corners but at the price of a harsh ride and is fairly bumpy, if you can live with the ride though, go for it, I've lived with my Cup for 6 months now and never looked back.

Also, I'm pretty sure 182's have taken a big price tumble as of late, are they really 5k? Or were you looking specifically at minters?

With regards to insurance, the insurance of both the 197 and the 182 is going to be more than any of the other cars you have considered, but in fairness they are the fastest and both have the credentials that yield higher insurance groups.

I'd go for the Clio over the C2 VTS, the C2 is a decent car, handles perfectly well, engine is fine, but its nothing amazing, and I wouldn't say it was as rewarding to drive as the Clio.

Panda 100HP, I also looked at when considering my last car. Decent build quality, lots of kit, tiny insurance group, and cheap to buy! They handle well and the 1.4 is lovely and revvy, obviously wont have the performance of the Clio or the C2 but they are excellent little cars. The 6th gear is also a bonus if you plan on doing any motorway miles, its rare for a little warm hatch to have one, certainly the likes of the Clio/C2/Saxo/Swift Sport/Twingo RS/Abarth 500 don't have them and cruising at 4k motorway speeds can become tiresome.


Are you settled on solely these cars? Or would you consider a Twingo RS (I can thoroughly recommend ), Swift Sport, Lupo Gti, or even an R56 cooper s? All of which are very good cars.

Hey Tuna..thanks for the very informative reply.

TBH, the 5K figure is more of an approx benchmark at this level, as you suggest, I'm sure there are plenty of decent 182's for a lot less out there, I just haven't studied the price market (or insurance cost for a newbie) in any great detail.

I suppose the C2 and Panda 100hp will be a lot less to insure, I haven't driven either as yet but despite the good reviews along the lines of "fun urban cars", I'm presuming they will feel a bit weedy compared to the Renault?! Also, despite the rave reviews, the wife isn't to keen on the Pandas looks, although I think the 100hp is a great looking little car and would be ideal as an all round package.

I really like the Twingo RS along with the Lupo but they may be a bit to small. From what I've read the Swift Sport is another good car with bags of character, but she had a bogger Swift as her previous car in Goa so wants something different really. Mini's seem to be everywhere now so thats out as well.

Like I say, she really wants a newer Clio 200 or Abarth (and in fairness she'd be paying, not me!)but its only me trying to be a bit sensible and getting her in an older, fun but still v capable car, for her first year of driving here.

I think I need to speak to some insurance companies as well to see if there is a MASSIVE difference. I've heard so many stories over the years of newbies passing their test then paying thousands just to insure some poxy car, I suppose her age will certainly help tho!

[Tuna44]

Daggerpie said:

Hey Tuna..thanks for the very informative reply.

TBH, the 5K figure is more of an approx benchmark at this level, as you suggest, I'm sure there are plenty of decent 182's for a lot less out there, I just haven't studied the price market (or insurance cost for a newbie) in any great detail.

I suppose the C2 and Panda 100hp will be a lot less to insure, I haven't driven either as yet but despite the good reviews along the lines of "fun urban cars", I'm presuming they will feel a bit weedy compared to the Renault?! Also, despite the rave reviews, the wife isn't to keen on the Pandas looks, although I think the 100hp is a great looking little car and would be ideal as an all round package.

I really like the Twingo RS along with the Lupo but they may be a bit to small. From what I've read the Swift Sport is another good car with bags of character, but she had a bogger Swift as her previous car in Goa so wants something different really. Mini's seem to be everywhere now so thats out as well.

Like I say, she really wants a newer Clio 200 or Abarth (and in fairness she'd be paying, not me!)but its only me trying to be a bit sensible and getting her in an older, fun but still v capable car, for her first year of driving here.

I think I need to speak to some insurance companies as well to see if there is a MASSIVE difference. I've heard so many stories over the years of newbies passing their test then paying thousands just to insure some poxy car, I suppose her age will certainly help tho!

No problem!

I'm mainly assuming here, but I am pretty sure a Clio 182/197 would be significantly more expensive to insure than a Panda, which has an absolutely minuscule insurance group compared to what a fun car it is.

You're right at thinking the 197/182 will have significantly more grunt than a C2 VTS or a Panda 100HP, but both of the lower powered cars should have enough shove to keep up comfortably with traffic as well as cruising at 80 leptons ish on the motorway, the panda also seems to do fairly well on fuel. But again is only 100hp compared to nearly double of the others.

If she is specifically set on having a larger car then others to look at would be a Seat Leon Cupra R, quite an overlooked car. Goes really well in a straight line, handles fairly well also and will have a decent amount of space and a fairly sized boot.

I'd also look at an EP3 Civic Type R, they are fantastic cars. Handling is spot on and the soundtrack and engine are great. This should also have much more space than a Panda and be similar to a Clio 197.

Mazda 3 MPS's are also worth a shout, but insurance is likely to be expensive as the 2.3 Turbo is savagely quick.

With regards to your need for more size and the Twingo RS. The Clio 182 and the Twingo RS share the same body platform, and as such, have very similar levels of space inside. I actually prefer the flexibility of the Twingo over my last Clio, as the independent sliding rear seats offer really good rear legroom when needed and also slide forward or fold away to yield a decent sized, completely flat boot. Whilst I'm on the topic of size, the Fiat 500 Abarth also doesn't have masses of space, the sloping rear boot lid also restricts boot space, however it does have a similar set up as the Twingo of independently sliding rear seats (Both only seat 4).


I suppose like you say its about finding a trade off between grunt/handling/space/car cost and the cost of insurance. But hopefully this helps you a little , any other questions I'll be happy to answer.

[Daggerpie]

Thanks for the reply again, its all food for though!

Interestingly, I saw a 197 parked up this morning and 2 cars back was mk2 Clio (OK, it was only a 1.2 not the 182), but the newer 197 looked massive in comparision. I guess I'm still in the old skool state of mind presuming Clios, Minis etc' are still small!! Ohh no..

Hadn't really thought of the Seat Leon but thats more up with VW Golf size, which may still be a bit big as a town car for her for starters. I had forgotten the smaller Ibiza Cupra though so thanks for that, that may be another option.

[davebeast]

I'd suggest going for the C2, Citroën we're clever in keeping the insurance group low for a hot(ish) hatch. I had a VTS on a 56 plate from new, so much fun. Not as much poke as the 182 agreed, but what you lose on power, you make up for in handling.