RenaultSport Clio - 197 or 182 Trophy ?
Discussion
Thinking of changing my 205 GTi for a RenaultSport Clio - and, for £6-7k, I'm tempted by either a 182 Trophy or a 197.
To explain, the 205 GTi is a real gem (an original, late, low mileage example in superb order throughout - drives perfectly and bought as a 'fun collectable').
In fact, my wife drove it recently and loved it, proclaiming that she would like to use it more often - but would quite like power steering and a few more conveniences. So, the later RenaultSport Clios seemed to be the logical next step.
What are the relative merits of the Trophy and 197?
thanks
(ps we've got other cars - this is purely for practical fun)
To explain, the 205 GTi is a real gem (an original, late, low mileage example in superb order throughout - drives perfectly and bought as a 'fun collectable').
In fact, my wife drove it recently and loved it, proclaiming that she would like to use it more often - but would quite like power steering and a few more conveniences. So, the later RenaultSport Clios seemed to be the logical next step.
What are the relative merits of the Trophy and 197?
thanks
(ps we've got other cars - this is purely for practical fun)
I think you'd struggle to find a 197 you liked for that money (unless you've seen some?) the ones I've seen people buying around that price bracket have been slightly tired/worn especially bodywork wise.
The most noticeable difference between the mk2/mk3 is the interior, it's no [insert generic german made vehicle] but it's a lot nicer place to be and much more roomy and feels like it's a modern car.
I've driven a few 182s and can say the 197/200 is much easier to drive, clutch is still stiff but you don't need the left leg of a body builder but on the other hand the 182/trophy is a bit more raw.
Both cars have fantastic handling, the mk2 is a bit lighter possibly a bit more chuckable BUT the 197 is the more stable car (probably due to the extra weight/wider tyres and newer chassis).
The trophy will get better mpg than a 197, 35mpg compared with 30mpg average roughly.
Both have essentially the same engine, the gearbox on 197s and mk3s is generally thought to be made of cheese.
Best places to get more info are either clio197.net or cliosport.net, for the mk3 and mk2 respectively.
The most noticeable difference between the mk2/mk3 is the interior, it's no [insert generic german made vehicle] but it's a lot nicer place to be and much more roomy and feels like it's a modern car.
I've driven a few 182s and can say the 197/200 is much easier to drive, clutch is still stiff but you don't need the left leg of a body builder but on the other hand the 182/trophy is a bit more raw.
Both cars have fantastic handling, the mk2 is a bit lighter possibly a bit more chuckable BUT the 197 is the more stable car (probably due to the extra weight/wider tyres and newer chassis).
The trophy will get better mpg than a 197, 35mpg compared with 30mpg average roughly.
Both have essentially the same engine, the gearbox on 197s and mk3s is generally thought to be made of cheese.
Best places to get more info are either clio197.net or cliosport.net, for the mk3 and mk2 respectively.
If you really like the 205 for how it drives then there is only one choice, the trophy.
I had a trophy for a year or so and it really does feel like a hot hatch should, light, nimble, agile, with plenty of go. When i sold mine i looked at getting a 200, after having a test drive in one i was very disappointed, as much as it did have a lot of grip and was as quick as the trophy it just didn't have that feel to it like a hot hatch should have.
Your best bet is to go and drive both of them, if you do i'm pretty sure you'll end up in a 182.
I had a trophy for a year or so and it really does feel like a hot hatch should, light, nimble, agile, with plenty of go. When i sold mine i looked at getting a 200, after having a test drive in one i was very disappointed, as much as it did have a lot of grip and was as quick as the trophy it just didn't have that feel to it like a hot hatch should have.
Your best bet is to go and drive both of them, if you do i'm pretty sure you'll end up in a 182.
182 Trophy without doubt for me.
The 197 isn't a big enough step on from the 182. More weight, much bigger car (needlessly, aside from modern safety regs), but not enough power to offset it.
Also the thing with Renaultsport is that they evolve and perfect the Clio through its life. The Trophy was the pinnacle of development for what was a cracking car already. The 197 is the starting point for the latest hot Clio. I'm sure they'll hit the sweet spot (the 200 Cup looks immense) but its yet to come.
I'm tempted to get another Clio at some point and it'll definately be a 182 or Trophy.
The 197 isn't a big enough step on from the 182. More weight, much bigger car (needlessly, aside from modern safety regs), but not enough power to offset it.
Also the thing with Renaultsport is that they evolve and perfect the Clio through its life. The Trophy was the pinnacle of development for what was a cracking car already. The 197 is the starting point for the latest hot Clio. I'm sure they'll hit the sweet spot (the 200 Cup looks immense) but its yet to come.
I'm tempted to get another Clio at some point and it'll definately be a 182 or Trophy.
2 completely different animals:
182: it's all about the power. I've never taken to the mk2 Clio's chassis. The whole thing's a very unrefined approach to making quick progress. I'm sure most will disagree however, although I do know 1 other with the same view. It certainly was a step down from the chassis of the mk1 Clios imo.
197: Owned one now for 3 years. I know a lot of mk1 owners that never liked the mk2 but took to the mk3 Clios weirdly. It's a much better blend of chassis and drivetrain than the 172/182. The gearbox is one of the best Renault have ever made imo. However, for me the chassis is just too capable on road. In my view you have to be going some to get any sense of working the chassis. Add to that the utterly numb electronic PAS and the experience can be a bit underwhelming. I can only think of a couple of occasions where I've felt like I've explored its capabilities, usually through roundabouts on d/c's. On those occasions it truly has astounded me how much pace it will carry through quick directions changes without fuss.
I believe a lot of the issues I have with thw 197 might have been resolved in the 200, but that has a chin like Jimmy Hill.
Best advice is to take a drive and see what you think.
182: it's all about the power. I've never taken to the mk2 Clio's chassis. The whole thing's a very unrefined approach to making quick progress. I'm sure most will disagree however, although I do know 1 other with the same view. It certainly was a step down from the chassis of the mk1 Clios imo.
197: Owned one now for 3 years. I know a lot of mk1 owners that never liked the mk2 but took to the mk3 Clios weirdly. It's a much better blend of chassis and drivetrain than the 172/182. The gearbox is one of the best Renault have ever made imo. However, for me the chassis is just too capable on road. In my view you have to be going some to get any sense of working the chassis. Add to that the utterly numb electronic PAS and the experience can be a bit underwhelming. I can only think of a couple of occasions where I've felt like I've explored its capabilities, usually through roundabouts on d/c's. On those occasions it truly has astounded me how much pace it will carry through quick directions changes without fuss.
I believe a lot of the issues I have with thw 197 might have been resolved in the 200, but that has a chin like Jimmy Hill.
Best advice is to take a drive and see what you think.
Sir_Dave said:
A Trophy will offer a similar drive to the 205 Gti, lightweight, big engine, LOOS on demand.
A 197 wont, purely due its bloated/overweight nature. Big disappointment imho.
Total rubbish. Neither will ofer a drive like a 205. They're not like proper old hatches, which combined the right amount of power with up-on-its-toes handling.A 197 wont, purely due its bloated/overweight nature. Big disappointment imho.
On top of that, the 197's rear end is A LOT more mobile than either the mk1 or mk2 clios.
Swervin_Mervin said:
Total rubbish. Neither will ofer a drive like a 205. They're not like proper old hatches, which combined the right amount of power with up-on-its-toes handling.
On top of that, the 197's rear end is A LOT more mobile than either the mk1 or mk2 clios.
We'll have to agree to disagree then, having owned/tracked/driven extensively 2 x Trophy's, countless 205/309 Gti's, a 197 & a 200.On top of that, the 197's rear end is A LOT more mobile than either the mk1 or mk2 clios.
I could have a 200 on the drive now in fact, but id rather have the Trophy.
Owned a 172 cup, 182 trophy and have driven a 197 and 200 a fair amount too.
If you like to thrash a car and like the feeling of chuckability then its the trophy all day long.
If you want a bit more refinement, better brakes then it's the 197/200. The trophy feels much more involved and would be my choice for you!!
If you like to thrash a car and like the feeling of chuckability then its the trophy all day long.
If you want a bit more refinement, better brakes then it's the 197/200. The trophy feels much more involved and would be my choice for you!!
milfordkong said:
ps. My trophy could easily do 40mpg when driven sensibly (not like you have a ming vase in the boot, but not thrashing it)
You could be chauffeuring the queen around and the 200 would struggle to better 30mpg.
True, I spoke to a chap with a 350z and he was telling me he got similar mpg to the 200.You could be chauffeuring the queen around and the 200 would struggle to better 30mpg.
I have just gone from a Clio 200 back to a Trophy.
The Trophy is a much better drivers car imo, so much more raw, it's like a go kart. My Trophy has an exhaust & remap and is easily as fast as the 200, if not faster given that it weighs ~150kg's less.
The trophy also has better standard seats then the non-recaro'd Clio 197/200.
I used to get 28/29mpg on my commute in the 200, I get 36/37 in the Trophy!! (remap may be helping that)
The Trophy is a much better drivers car imo, so much more raw, it's like a go kart. My Trophy has an exhaust & remap and is easily as fast as the 200, if not faster given that it weighs ~150kg's less.
The trophy also has better standard seats then the non-recaro'd Clio 197/200.
I used to get 28/29mpg on my commute in the 200, I get 36/37 in the Trophy!! (remap may be helping that)
eddd1e said:
I have just gone from a Clio 200 back to a Trophy.
The Trophy is a much better drivers car imo, so much more raw, it's like a go kart. My Trophy has an exhaust & remap and is easily as fast as the 200, if not faster given that it weighs ~150kg's less.
The trophy also has better standard seats then the non-recaro'd Clio 197/200.
I used to get 28/29mpg on my commute in the 200, I get 36/37 in the Trophy!! (remap may be helping that)
Wish I didn't have 18 months left on my 200's finance :-(The Trophy is a much better drivers car imo, so much more raw, it's like a go kart. My Trophy has an exhaust & remap and is easily as fast as the 200, if not faster given that it weighs ~150kg's less.
The trophy also has better standard seats then the non-recaro'd Clio 197/200.
I used to get 28/29mpg on my commute in the 200, I get 36/37 in the Trophy!! (remap may be helping that)
Geneve said:
Actually, I'm still looking.
The Trophy does look very nice, but if I bought one I'd probably become too fussy about looking after it, especially in winter.
The 197 would be more of a year round run-about, airport car - fun (I hope), but less 'special' than the Trophy.
still looking you say? The Trophy does look very nice, but if I bought one I'd probably become too fussy about looking after it, especially in winter.
The 197 would be more of a year round run-about, airport car - fun (I hope), but less 'special' than the Trophy.
may I suggest this superb looking example?...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2973595.htm
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