1:8th Scale RC Buggies go Brushless :)
Discussion
Have been noticing a new line of RC cars coming out this year. Move over Nitro fuel, brushless and lipo are going to blow you away with a new breed of 1:8 scale off-road buggies.
Was chatting to the boys from HPI at The Gadget Show at the NEC the other weekend and asked them if they were going to release a 1:8 scale Brushless version of their Nitro buggies.
Answer was a huge YES
Associated have one out, waiting for Xray now...
The guys at HPI told me that one was run as a recent world championship against Nitro and it left it eating dirt!!! If it's speed you want, then these new brushless electric 1:8 scale models are the future, far less hassle than fuel
We also got talking about Lipo and they were saying that 2009 will be the final deathnail in the coffin for brushed and cells. All manufacturers are now solely working on brushless/lipo chassis'
I'm very keen to keep my 1:10 Xray Brushless setup for TC, but if they release a 1:8 brushless chassis for off-road then I might be very tempted...
Was chatting to the boys from HPI at The Gadget Show at the NEC the other weekend and asked them if they were going to release a 1:8 scale Brushless version of their Nitro buggies.
Answer was a huge YES
Associated have one out, waiting for Xray now...
The guys at HPI told me that one was run as a recent world championship against Nitro and it left it eating dirt!!! If it's speed you want, then these new brushless electric 1:8 scale models are the future, far less hassle than fuel
We also got talking about Lipo and they were saying that 2009 will be the final deathnail in the coffin for brushed and cells. All manufacturers are now solely working on brushless/lipo chassis'
I'm very keen to keep my 1:10 Xray Brushless setup for TC, but if they release a 1:8 brushless chassis for off-road then I might be very tempted...
must say i was racing last weekend and there was a brushless buggy there and it just flys down the straights and it was completing a set of jumps in one go, where a nitro would have to do em in two lots,
only downfall i see is as it is soo light it was getting bullied a bit but the heavier buggys and would usually come out worse and the wind could easily catch it in mid air
overall tho very impressed, but to me you can't beat the sound of a nitro engine screaming down the main straight
only downfall i see is as it is soo light it was getting bullied a bit but the heavier buggys and would usually come out worse and the wind could easily catch it in mid air
overall tho very impressed, but to me you can't beat the sound of a nitro engine screaming down the main straight
I love nitros over electric personally, you can't beat the noise, and the plume of blue smoke, I have a GV Rambo 1/6th scale buggy with a .46 glow engine in it and the smoke plume is great 
, the .46 engine also sounds brilliant (tuned pipe).
Saying that you can't ignore the brushless motors and LiPo batteries performance, though I think I'll give it 4 years or so when my current models are worn out and beyond repair before I look at getting one prices will have come down allot and the technology especially on the battery charging will be much better, though I'll probably end up with a 1/5th scale petrol one instead
Matt
, the .46 engine also sounds brilliant (tuned pipe).Saying that you can't ignore the brushless motors and LiPo batteries performance, though I think I'll give it 4 years or so when my current models are worn out and beyond repair before I look at getting one prices will have come down allot and the technology especially on the battery charging will be much better, though I'll probably end up with a 1/5th scale petrol one instead
Matt
chr15b said:
Lipo's you have to be very careful with - charge them wrong and you can have a fire very easily
No more careful than with NiMH.Battery life is also so much better with brushless/lipo than brushed/nimh. My Tamiya DF-03 gets half an hour running at full chat with a 5500mah lipo, and 9T brushless running at 35mph+
HereBeMonsters said:
chr15b said:
Lipo's you have to be very careful with - charge them wrong and you can have a fire very easily
No more careful than with NiMH.OK, so some thick idiots found that if you use the wrong charger then they go bang and put a video on YouTube, but look at the facts... They were dumbass pricks! They were not charging them correctly, that's the problem with the Internet and sites such as YouTube.
Try and find out the facts about these issues...
The correct charger fitted with a balancer and designed specifically for charing LiPo batteries makes them very safe indeed. The huge benefit over cells is that I can charge my LiPo on Sunday evening and the is no loss of charge for when I go racing the following Friday. I race, put the same battery on charge straight after the race and do that all night. No need for lots of cells, discharges etc. Would never buy another cell pack ever, even if they were given them away I would not have one.
Just imagine when the new breed of technology hits our sport when you'll be able to charge your LiPo pack in seconds for a full charge!! The mind boggles...
motormania said:
HereBeMonsters said:
chr15b said:
Lipo's you have to be very careful with - charge them wrong and you can have a fire very easily
No more careful than with NiMH.OK, so some thick idiots found that if you use the wrong charger then they go bang and put a video on YouTube, but look at the facts... They were dumbass pricks! They were not charging them correctly, that's the problem with the Internet and sites such as YouTube.
Try and find out the facts about these issues...
The correct charger fitted with a balancer and designed specifically for charing LiPo batteries makes them very safe indeed. The huge benefit over cells is that I can charge my LiPo on Sunday evening and the is no loss of charge for when I go racing the following Friday. I race, put the same battery on charge straight after the race and do that all night. No need for lots of cells, discharges etc. Would never buy another cell pack ever, even if they were given them away I would not have one.
Just imagine when the new breed of technology hits our sport when you'll be able to charge your LiPo pack in seconds for a full charge!! The mind boggles...
Yes they have massive benefits over normal cells but most things, they have drawbacks too.
Personally after spending a fortune moving my fleet of rc aircraft & heli's from nitro to Lipo I regret it. Both are great, both suited to different apps - running Lipo can get bloody expensive if you want enough packs to allow a decent day out!!!
Davi said:
motormania said:
Lipo's are also not like NiMh, they go into thermal runaway on a scale nothing like NiMh and are nigh on impossible to extinguish once they go.
I'd rather have a slow burning fire that I can chuck outside than an exploding cell in the face.I've been running LiPo for 6 months now, and would never go back to NiMH. The only "other" batteries I have are some vintage NiCads for the vintage runners...
I'm a complete brushless/lipo convert! All this talk about them being unsafe and likely to burn your house down is just that-rubbish! Im now racing a losi xxx with novak GTB 5.5 and trakpower 4900 lipos - very reliable, VERY fast, and will run for 10 mins easy before thinking about wanting a charge! no messing with changing brushes, skimming armateurs, discharging and cycling nimh's. Really glad I made the move to brushless/lipo. So glad infact, that I have a novak HV pro (with 5mm rotor) sat at home waiting for my e-revo to be delivered for some scary fast bashing
HereBeMonsters said:
Davi said:
Lipo's are also not like NiMh, they go into thermal runaway on a scale nothing like NiMh and are nigh on impossible to extinguish once they go.
I'd rather have a slow burning fire that I can chuck outside than an exploding cell in the face.I've been running LiPo for 6 months now, and would never go back to NiMH. The only "other" batteries I have are some vintage NiCads for the vintage runners...
I'm not suggesting that anyone should or would go back to NiMh (have RC car people been really slow on the uptake of them or something? seeing people talk about them as though they are new?!) I'm suggesting you don't believe people who tell you that they are really totallly safe and people that have had a problem with them are just the thick idiots.
I had at last count about 50 odd Lipo packs, ranging from 50mah 2s packs to 6000mah 4s4p
Edited by Davi on Tuesday 28th April 13:30
motormania said:
HereBeMonsters said:
chr15b said:
Lipo's you have to be very careful with - charge them wrong and you can have a fire very easily
No more careful than with NiMH.OK, so some thick idiots found that if you use the wrong charger then they go bang and put a video on YouTube, but look at the facts... They were dumbass pricks! They were not charging them correctly, that's the problem with the Internet and sites such as YouTube.
Try and find out the facts about these issues...
The correct charger fitted with a balancer and designed specifically for charing LiPo batteries makes them very safe indeed. The huge benefit over cells is that I can charge my LiPo on Sunday evening and the is no loss of charge for when I go racing the following Friday. I race, put the same battery on charge straight after the race and do that all night. No need for lots of cells, discharges etc. Would never buy another cell pack ever, even if they were given them away I would not have one.
Just imagine when the new breed of technology hits our sport when you'll be able to charge your LiPo pack in seconds for a full charge!! The mind boggles...
i stand totally by my statement, charge them wrong and they can be dangerous - in my opinion more dangerous than other battery technologies. i've incorrectly charged nimh and nicad batteries by rushing and not checking the charger settings for number of cells / capacity - yet i've seen the after affects of lipos when charged correctly set fire because of fault.
i'm not saying dont use them
and i'll stick with nitro
We have a Caster Fusion in our little club and he got the car out to play during practice for an event the other weekend. Must say i was very impressed with the turn of pace of the car. It was only running a pair of 2600 7.4v LiPo's, so battery life was a little short. But even with a decent set of 5000's i doubt it would run much more than 15-20 minutes. Trouble is how many sets of batteries would you need for a days racing in Rallycross? You may be able to top up your batteries from the first rounds to use in the finals but still with the buggy using 2 packs a time you will probably need 6 packs just to be sure, and thats without bump ups in the finals! And at the best part of £80-100 a pop per pack that is a little expensive...
I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
To compare lipo with Nimh is a bit daft IMO.
Lipo battery are much more dangerous than Nimh.
If you short out an NIMH cell then it will go pop and make some nasty smoke.
Do the same to a lipo and it will burn very violently, and possibly explode. Once they are alight they are very hard to put out.
I do agree that people are a bit paranoid about charging them, but you need to be very careful about how you store them.
It also worth remembering that Lipos are easily damaged if you overdischarge them. Do this only once and the pack can be permanently damaged. Its an expensive mistake to make and is much more easily done when racing.
I am not anti lipo at all, i think they are brilliant but you should be aware of the dangers of using these new cells.
Some of the brushless motors avalable for RC helis are very powerfull, even in comparison to large engines. The main problem is that the lipos to power them are so expensive.
Lipo battery are much more dangerous than Nimh.
If you short out an NIMH cell then it will go pop and make some nasty smoke.
Do the same to a lipo and it will burn very violently, and possibly explode. Once they are alight they are very hard to put out.
I do agree that people are a bit paranoid about charging them, but you need to be very careful about how you store them.
It also worth remembering that Lipos are easily damaged if you overdischarge them. Do this only once and the pack can be permanently damaged. Its an expensive mistake to make and is much more easily done when racing.
I am not anti lipo at all, i think they are brilliant but you should be aware of the dangers of using these new cells.
Some of the brushless motors avalable for RC helis are very powerfull, even in comparison to large engines. The main problem is that the lipos to power them are so expensive.
Holst said:
If you short out an NIMH cell then it will go pop and make some nasty smoke.
Do the same to a lipo and it will burn very violently, and possibly explode. Once they are alight they are very hard to put out.
I do agree that people are a bit paranoid about charging them, but you need to be very careful about how you store them.
Plain cells are also very soft - I've had a stray slither of metal go through one in a crash - never happen with a NiMh. Putting it on charge without noticing the tiny pin hole in the casing produced interesting results...Do the same to a lipo and it will burn very violently, and possibly explode. Once they are alight they are very hard to put out.
I do agree that people are a bit paranoid about charging them, but you need to be very careful about how you store them.
Holst said:
It also worth remembering that Lipos are easily damaged if you overdischarge them. Do this only once and the pack can be permanently damaged. Its an expensive mistake to make and is much more easily done when racing.
I am not anti lipo at all, i think they are brilliant but you should be aware of the dangers of using these new cells.
Some of the brushless motors avalable for RC helis are very powerfull, even in comparison to large engines. The main problem is that the lipos to power them are so expensive.
subtle understatement I am not anti lipo at all, i think they are brilliant but you should be aware of the dangers of using these new cells.
Some of the brushless motors avalable for RC helis are very powerfull, even in comparison to large engines. The main problem is that the lipos to power them are so expensive.
mate into cars almost feinted when he clocked one of my packs was more than his whole set up.HereBeMonsters said:
Davi said:
motormania said:
Lipo's are also not like NiMh, they go into thermal runaway on a scale nothing like NiMh and are nigh on impossible to extinguish once they go.
I'd rather have a slow burning fire that I can chuck outside than an exploding cell in the face.I've been running LiPo for 6 months now, and would never go back to NiMH. The only "other" batteries I have are some vintage NiCads for the vintage runners...
I still stand by my comments that these packs are safe. It is only when they are mis-used that problems occur. A box of matches are safe in the right hands, a sharp knife is safe - but used incorrectly, anything can become dangerous.
Edited by motormania on Wednesday 29th April 09:33
Mikey G said:
We have a Caster Fusion in our little club and he got the car out to play during practice for an event the other weekend. Must say i was very impressed with the turn of pace of the car. It was only running a pair of 2600 7.4v LiPo's, so battery life was a little short. But even with a decent set of 5000's i doubt it would run much more than 15-20 minutes. Trouble is how many sets of batteries would you need for a days racing in Rallycross? You may be able to top up your batteries from the first rounds to use in the finals but still with the buggy using 2 packs a time you will probably need 6 packs just to be sure, and thats without bump ups in the finals! And at the best part of £80-100 a pop per pack that is a little expensive...
I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
Interested to know why you need multiple packs? I use just one pack (I know some 1:8 scale Brushless chassis are now using 2 packs linked) but when I go racing I charge up the weekend before I go, then just stick the LiPo on charge between heats - never have to worry about having more than one pack. The pack is not effected by coming off from a race and put straight back onto charge. So why do oyou have so many packs?I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
I'd also like to know who your buying your LiPo's from as I can buy them for between £30-50 brand new!
Edited by motormania on Wednesday 29th April 09:50
motormania said:
I still stand by my comments that these packs are safe. It is only when they are mis-used that problems occur. A box of matches are safe in the right hands, a sharp knife is safe - but used incorrectly, anything can become dangerous.
Fair enough, I'll just re-iterate that you are wrong, it's not just misuse that can cause the problems, inattentiveness to the packs on it's own can do it, accidental unseen damage can do it, people moving from other cell technologies need to get used to the extra precautions needed with Liths.Edited by motormania on Wednesday 29th April 09:33
motormania said:
I'd also like to know who your buying your LiPo's from as I can buy them for between £30-50 brand new!
Don't know car packs but not all liths are equal. I can get two seemingly identical packs for one of my heli's, same noted C discharge rate, same voltage, same mah... one cost twice the price of the other. Difference is when you fly (or put diagnostics in line!) and watch the sustainable watts drop through the floor, the voltage dip dramatically and the available power from the motor disappear. May not be so noticeable in buggies, but in a heli you really don't want to find your pack isn't up to scratch half way through a loop...motormania said:
Mikey G said:
We have a Caster Fusion in our little club and he got the car out to play during practice for an event the other weekend. Must say i was very impressed with the turn of pace of the car. It was only running a pair of 2600 7.4v LiPo's, so battery life was a little short. But even with a decent set of 5000's i doubt it would run much more than 15-20 minutes. Trouble is how many sets of batteries would you need for a days racing in Rallycross? You may be able to top up your batteries from the first rounds to use in the finals but still with the buggy using 2 packs a time you will probably need 6 packs just to be sure, and thats without bump ups in the finals! And at the best part of £80-100 a pop per pack that is a little expensive...
I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
Interested to know why you need multiple packs? I use just one pack (I know some 1:8 scale Brushless chassis are now using 2 packs linked) but when I go racing I charge up the weekend before I go, then just stick the LiPo on charge between heats - never have to worry about having more than one pack. The pack is not effected by coming off from a race and put straight back onto charge. So why do oyou have so many packs?I'll stick to my Xray 808 and GRP combo for a little longer i think
I'd also like to know who your buying your LiPo's from as I can buy them for between £30-50 brand new!
Edited by motormania on Wednesday 29th April 09:50
The car in question is setup to run 2 LiPo's in a 14.8v configuration. Using 2600mah batteries the car lasted 6-8 minutes tops. That is the exact amount of time needed to run a Rallycross buggy in a qualifying heat. If the car was fitted with 5000's this may double and you would be able to run 2 out of the 3 qualifiers on the same packs, you get around an hour between heats so you may be able to get some power back in them charging at 1C but you have 2 packs to deal with here so would need 2 chargers. And i know that my charger reduces the charge rate as the battery power increases so a 5000mah battery isnt going to take an hour at 1C but more like 2...
So you may get away with 4 packs as the first pair would be charged enough for finals and the second pair topped up enough for the possibility of a bump up. (unless your an A finalist)
And where the hell do you get a decent set of 5000mah hard case LiPo's for less than £50 apart from happy shopper ones off ebay? cheapest i have seen are around £70+ with the better makes closer to £90-100.... So even if you used 4 packs its still a decent wedge to part with.
This aint no touring car buddy, i choose to race a nitro car because its a nitro car, dont try to infect me with this electrikery malarky
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