Update on consumer rights

[motormania]

Just thought I'd update you on the interesting communications that I have been having with a few companies which I have purchased from in recent weeks.

Those of you who may have seen a previous thread from me will know that I had an issue with a online retailer which whom I had purchaed something and then was informed via a club I've joined was not the right purchase. I duly sent it back within 7 days and they were refusing to refund the original delivery charge, and even said that they could have taken a 15% handling fee too!

Well the good news is that after my communication with Trading Standards was forwarded to the said retailer, they duly refunded me the full amount taken from my card in the first place, well done to them for doing that, but unfortunately I will never use them again and will certainly never recommend them to anyone, though so I do not get kicked off, I will refrain from mentioning their name again in this thread...

...it's up to you to go find them elsewhere on here

Anyway, I had an interesting problem again with another retailer last week and what a difference. Screwfix, that well known online store was the company I was dealing with as I need some circlip plyers for my RC car. They advertised online a mini-set of plyers, including a circlip one so off went the order and the item arrived very quickly. Trouble is, mini to them is not mini enough for me and they were still too big, so with my knowledge of my rights as a consumer, I duly packed it all up ready to return within the said 7 days, however, they actually arrange for the item to be collected, so I did not have to pay for it to be returned. Great news then when I see that they have refunded me cost of item and delivery charge. WOW, now that's what I call service and I will not hesitate from buying from them again in the future if I need anything. That's the kind of service that everyone should be offering, albeit the collection is over the top as I have never had a problem in paying to have an item returned.

Therefore when I still see retailers online saying that you must return items within 14 days, but delivery and handling charges will not be refunded it makes my blood boil as you the consumer are being spun info that hides the facts.

As a UK consumer, puchasing goods in the UK, you are entitled to reutn an item within 7 days (note 7 not 14 days) for what ever reason you like, so long as the item is intact and has not been used of course, and the retailer BY LAW MUST refund the full amount you paid INCLUDING delivery charges.

If they refuse to, then a quick email to them stating that they are in breach of the Distant Selling Regulations of 2000 and that you will report them to Trading Standards if they continue to refuse should do the trick.

This got me thinking...

Surely ebay traders should fall under the Distant Selling Regulations too right?

Well I'm going to speak with my contact at TS this week to see where we consumers stand with returning items won off ebay within 7 days of receipt, watch this space for more details...

Power to the people

[DIW35]

You may find you have different rights when dealing with an individual rather than a dealer on ebay the same as you would have different rights if buying a car from a private seller rather than a dealer.

[Centurion07]

So let me get this right; you make 2 seperate purchases of the wrong items, ENTIRELY your fault for not doing your homework on what you needed, or asking "exactly HOW mini are your pliers", and you think the company should be out of pocket because of YOUR mistakes?

Consumer rights may say you're entitled to this, that & the other, but morally why you think someone else should be out of pocket because you don't order the right thing is beyond me.

[peterguk V6 KWK]

Centurion07 said:

So let me get this right; you make 2 seperate purchases of the wrong items, ENTIRELY your fault for not doing your homework on what you needed, or asking "exactly HOW mini are your pliers", and you think the company should be out of pocket because of YOUR mistakes?

Consumer rights may say you're entitled to this, that & the other, but morally why you think someone else should be out of pocket because you don't order the right thing is beyond me.

The minipliers i can understand. Not suitable, so fair enought.

But to return just because you don't fancy them and expect the company to lose out is outrageous! From tonight, my site has a 25% restocking fee to protect me against complete tw*ts.

[motormania]

Well I would have guessed that negative remarks about the OP would come from e-retailers! I used to work for one of Europes largest online female clothing apparal companies, our returns were in the region of 30-40% due to women ordering half a dozen items, trying them on and returning the ones they didn't like, but that's what you have to expect in that business. Most mail order catalogue businesses have similar return rates, it's what they expect from 'long distance selling' which is what catalogue and internet shopping is.

BTW: Trust me, if you try and keep 25% from a customer who know's their rights then you could well be hearing from Trading Standards...

This whole subject is about customer service, something this country (UK) does very badly and which is a pet-hate of mine. I was once at an awards evening where the guest speaker was Quintin Wilson (he of Top Gear fame) and the awards were all about customer service, of which I won within my category , and I remember QW saying that the customer is king, and he's so right. Just wish more companies realised that from time to time.

I once had a problem a few years back with Tesco's. My wife had purchased a battery for one of our 35mm cameras. When we got it home and took it out of the wrapper we'd found it was the wrong size. Being Tesco's I thought they'd never have a problem replacing it, a compnay of their size with profits exceeding £2billion each year, but oh how wrong I was. I couldn't belive the trouble I had. I had to get past the supervisor to order the manager out of his little office to try and solve the problem. After about half an hour we finally got them to offer us a replacement. Yes I know that they didn't have to, but this is a company making obscene amounts of profits every day, and we were talking about a couple of quid here!!

Needless to say I have never set foot into a Tesco since. Mr Sainsbury's now gets my hard earned money each week

BTW I have since ordered something else from Screwfix, just shows that their customer service pays off, so let that be a lesson to other traders out there...

[motormania]

DIW35 said:

You may find you have different rights when dealing with an individual rather than a dealer on ebay the same as you would have different rights if buying a car from a private seller rather than a dealer.

Interesting feedback from my contact at Trading Standards. Apparently the Distant Selling Rules apply to eBayers too

Trading Standards say:

"If you were to buy an item from eBay you could only demand a full refund from the seller of the item, not eBay or PayPal. There are no charges made to buyers from eBay and PayPal. You could only claim against PayPal should the seller either refuse to refund costs or an item is not delivered to you."

So eBay sellers had better beware, and those who purchase of eBay take note

[PeetBee]

motormania said:

DIW35 said:

You may find you have different rights when dealing with an individual rather than a dealer on ebay the same as you would have different rights if buying a car from a private seller rather than a dealer.

Interesting feedback from my contact at Trading Standards. Apparently the Distant Selling Rules apply to eBayers too

But Trading Standards doesn't apply to individuals though does it? Which is the point DIW35 was making.

[viper paul]

So to continue this logically using my morals as a guideline.

You drive into town buy your self a new model/dress for wife tie etc, you get it home and decide you don't like it and take it back....do you therefore demand the petrol money or just the standard mileage allowance?????

Some mail order companies need protection.........................from there customers.

And catalogue companies make a much higher margin.

Yes customer service is king but I think its unfair to expect your postage back, it is however a charge that they have incured.

[tangerine_sedge]

viper paul said:

So to continue this logically using my morals as a guideline.

You drive into town buy your self a new model/dress for wife tie etc, you get it home and decide you don't like it and take it back....do you therefore demand the petrol money or just the standard mileage allowance?????

Some mail order companies need protection.........................from there customers.

No, because at the point of sale in the shop, you can see what you are buying. When distance buying you cannot see the item, so do not necessarily know what you are buying. Of course you could browse the item in a 'real' shop before buying online, but how fair is that to the shop owner?

The benefit to internet shops, is that they do not have all the running costs of high-street stores, but returns under distance-selling rules is one of the downsides. If you do not want people to return items, then do not distance sell!

[Centurion07]

Which is all well and good, but the OP chose to return the items not because they were faulty, or he didn't get the chance to see them in the flesh, but because he didn't do his homework & bought the wrong things. His fault entirely. Again with the mini-pliers, all he had to do was ask someone to give him a relevant measurement, such as how far they open or how long they are, but no, again he just ordered them & then sent them back because he messed up.

Yes, sometimes COMPANIES need to be protected from their "customers". And FYI I'm not an e-retailer.

[motormania]

Centurion07 said:

Which is all well and good, but the OP chose to return the items not because they were faulty, or he didn't get the chance to see them in the flesh, but because he didn't do his homework & bought the wrong things. His fault entirely. Again with the mini-pliers, all he had to do was ask someone to give him a relevant measurement, such as how far they open or how long they are, but no, again he just ordered them & then sent them back because he messed up.

Yes, sometimes COMPANIES need to be protected from their "customers". And FYI I'm not an e-retailer.

To answer your comments, I HAD DONE my homework on the speedo. I have seen the pros and cons of brushed and brushless and thought I would go brushed until I had got back into the swing of racing. It was only a day later after I had purchased it that I visited the club where I shall be racing and was once thinking, have I done the right thing. I decided then that after all the advice I had read up on and taken at the club I would after all go brushless.

As I knew my rights as a consumer under the distance seller regulations, I didn't think twice about sending it back. It was the actions of the retailer in question that was at fault, not me. As the guy above has put very well, if a retailer does not want to adhere to the Distance Seller Regulations then don't sell online. Stick to selling face to face.

As to the mini-plyers, I purchased them late at night - so there was no one to ask as the beauty of online retailing is that you can buy when you like and are not forced to only buy 9-5. However, the way I was treated by Screwfix (the company who were selling the players) was 1st class, exactly how it should be done and I have purchased from them since then as I can trust them.

To try and spin this whole around as me being at fault is simply crazy. I know my rights and I know the law so I use that information to my advantage. Maybe it's time you did the same...

[viper paul]

But why would i want to upset my morals, by screwing a small business man for a couple of quid because I made a mistake, I simply wouldn't, nor would I beat him to death with endless obligations about my rights.

I am sure you will never deal with the robber again, but if I was him I would refuse to supply you, which he also has the right to do.

So picture if he is the only importer of your favourite radio controlled car suddenly no spares, business is about relationships.

I am sure however you are more of a con.................sumer than I will ever be.

[motormania]

viper paul said:

But why would i want to upset my morals, by screwing a small business man for a couple of quid because I made a mistake, I simply wouldn't, nor would I beat him to death with endless obligations about my rights.

I am sure you will never deal with the robber again, but if I was him I would refuse to supply you, which he also has the right to do.

So picture if he is the only importer of your favourite radio controlled car suddenly no spares, business is about relationships.

I am sure however you are more of a con.................sumer than I will ever be.

The beauty of the Internet is that local distribution means nothing these days. I bought the brushless in the end from America and save over £50 in the process. The bodyshell came from a US eBayer due to the UK not stocking the one I wanted anymore, my new Transmitter came direct from Hong Kong, again saving over £70 if I was buy here in the UK.

These UK companies need to wise up to the global market we now live in

BTW, I've been recently buying little bits and pieces to finish off the car from Demon Products. 1st rate service, ordered items on Monday, arrived first thing Tuesday, including two extra items I noticed on their site, which I rang through later in the afternoon in the hope of them being added to the order.

Customer service does exist still in the country, you just have to look harder for it.

Just had a look at your 'personal garage' it would seem that a few quid means nothing to you, but we are not all that wealthy! Every penny counts for some of us still. But as I mentioned in my other thread, it was the principle not the money anyway. I have principles...

Edited by motormania on Thursday 3rd April 14:18

[Centurion07]

motormania said:

...and was once thinking, have I done the right thing.

This was my point. You just upped & made the decision you wanted something else. That's not HIS fault.

motormania said:

As the guy above has put very well, if a retailer does not want to adhere to the Distance Seller Regulations then don't sell online. Stick to selling face to face.

I wasn't arguing the fact that he wasn't legally required to refund your money, just that you don't seem bothered in the slightest that you cost that company money, immaterial of the fact that maybe you would/maybe you wouldn't use them again dependant on your treatment.

motormania said:

As to the mini-plyers, I purchased them late at night - so there was no one to ask as the beauty of online retailing is that you can buy when you like and are not forced to only buy 9-5.

So you needed something very specific, specific enough to be able to do the single thing you needed them for, so you go and buy them online without seeing them in the flesh, or at a time of day when you could ask someone the relevant questions I mentioned?!

motormania said:

I know my rights and I know the law.....

I wasn't arguing the legality of what transpired.

motormania said:

To try and spin this whole thing around as me being at fault is simply crazy.

Right there is the problem. YOU are ENTIRELY at fault. Yes, legally you are entitled to a full refund BUT YOU ordered stuff then changed YOUR mind, thus costing that company money in terms of packaging/staff time etc, and then ordered something else without seeking the advice YOU NEEDED to confirm you were ordering the right item.

Legally you're in the right and of course, we all know how perfect every single one of our laws is!

Morally you are Victor Meldrew AICMFP.

[motormania]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the subject in question, the fact that a customer has a legal right to return a purchased item within 7 days (either by mail-order or via the Internet) for what ever reason the customer wishes - broken, not wanted, made a mistake, you name it, the law covers it and all at the cost of the retailer.

Hey, it's the law but what does that matter in today's society...

I guess you don't watch BBC's Watchdog very often either.

Happy shopping

Edited by motormania on Thursday 3rd April 21:23

[viper paul]

Your not the bloke I know are you that get invited to a wedding, buys a suit from M&S wears it, then takes it back on Monday for a full refund???

My personal garage means little to this discussion I am 50+ built up a sucessfull business by customer service second to none if I cock up I send the poor consumer a bottle of Champers and some chocolates a free gift and his money back.

If they cock up I send them nothing, in fact have even refused to supply them. I also note you have little support of your actions............makes you wonder who is right?????

Wonder if Hong Kong would have refunded your money if it had gone wrong............even a small part of it, I doubt it.

Yes I agree with you, name and shame the bad one's but don't be a barrack room lawyer.

[PeetBee]

motormania said:

These UK companies need to wise up to the global market we now live in

I know from a couple of UK modelshops that the trade price they are paying is the same as you can buy it from Hong Kong, it's not greedy UK retailers, it's ripoff britain again.

[motormania]

viper paul said:

Wonder if Hong Kong would have refunded your money if it had gone wrong............even a small part of it, I doubt it.

You may have to eat your words here...

I recently purchased an item from Hong Kong, installed it in the car but found there to be a fault with it. Have returned the item to them after some email communication and they are sending me a replacement item free of charge.

Now that's service

[Davi]

motormania said:

viper paul said:

Wonder if Hong Kong would have refunded your money if it had gone wrong............even a small part of it, I doubt it.

You may have to eat your words here...

I recently purchased an item from Hong Kong, installed it in the car but found there to be a fault with it. Have returned the item to them after some email communication and they are sending me a replacement item free of charge.

Now that's service

I have also had Hong Kong do customer service the like of which I've not seen in this country - they told me not to bother returning an item, to keep it for spares for the new one they were sending in the post.

WRT your original post though, I think you are utterly wrong to expect someone to refund your postage due to an error of your own doing. Is it good customer service for them to pay for it? probably. Should you expect it? absolutely not.

in fact re-reading your further posts, I think it's people like you that are screwing model shops in the UK up. Learn to accept your mistakes. You WERE at fault choosing the wrong motor, trying to get around paying for that mistake at the expense of an ever shrinking industry sucks arse.

Edited by Davi on Friday 30th May 15:25

[motormania]

It's called market forces...

I closed my business due to ebay sellers under cutting what were already very tight margins so I'm all too aware about what's happening to the model industry in this country.

If I couldn't beat them, I joined them!!

Look at retail in general, everyone complains about the power that Supermarkets have on the retail industry, yet why do we all still shop at them?