Advice needed regarding a return...

[motormania]

Recently purchased a new speed controller from Apex Models, but after purchasing the item (designed for brushed motors) I'd been advised that the brushless route was best, so without breaking the manufacturers factory sealed box I contacted Apex Models to confirm the item would be returned next day and that I wanted a full refund which they agreed to.

I paid £48.75 for the item which shows up on my bank statement, and having just checked today they have refunded me £46.50!!!

Doubled checked and yes it's £2.25 short. Trawled through their small print (which of course no customer reads if we are all honest) and it says:

"Where goods are supplied and include delivery free of charge, that are later returned for credit or refund, we reserve the right to deduct our costs from the refund total."

OK I got free delivery, but I paid a premium signed for service to gaurantee it got back in one piece. It may only be £2.25 but it's the principle that is pissing me off! Do I have a leg to stand on legally?

Has anyone else had a problem with Apex Models?

Shame because this was my first purchase from them and if this is how they treat their new customers, well they've just lost a lot of money from me because I shall be buying the brushless kit elsewhere now and will make it very clear to them my disgust.

Edited by motormania on Tuesday 26th February 00:01

[BigMansZetec]

Well if it states that in there T&C's then no, not a lot you can do.

But it's pretty bad customer service to be honest, £2.25 won't be much to them, and like you say they have lost out if you don't use them again.
Never had a bad experience with Apex, but I never used their mail order service, as I used to live quite close.

[PeetBee]

Well, to be fair to them they have given a refund just because you changed your mind rather than due to a fault.

[JTD]

Always read the small print beforehand!

[Bungleaio]

Sounds like you'll have to put up with the charge unfortunately mate.

I have used apex a fair few times, I'm sure the boss has retired on profits purely from my friends and I, but I have never had to return an item so I have never delt with that side of things. Their sales sides of things has always been 1st class.

[motormania]

PeetBee said:

Well, to be fair to them they have given a refund just because you changed your mind rather than due to a fault.

Errr.....

Ever purchased an item of clothing only to take it back next day or a week later because it didn't fit right? You get a full refund.

I have never had to pay a 'handling fee' before if I send something back, via post or in person. It's called customer service. The Customer is King and if they wanted to keep me happy they wouldn't charge me!!! The item can be resold as the factory seal is intact. Fully understand if I'd taken it out, looked at it and put it back, but that item will still be sold to someone else.

It's their fault if they offer free delivery - never had a problem paying delivery from mail-order companies. The free delivery was not why I chose them btw, it was because I had heard of them before and thought they would be more reliable than some startup webby shop - how wrong can I be!!!?

However, having checked my emails again, it would appear that my invoice was for £46.50 and the refund was for £46.50. So what is pissing me off even more is the fact that they took £48.75 in the first place!!

I know it's only a couple of quid, which is nothing when spending over £800 in total to start racing again, but it is the principle that counts here, and I just think that the fact they have taken more money than what I was billed for is VERY VERY wrong.

I shall be chasing every last penny of that £2.25 over charge and they will never get my business again.

[motormania]

Bungleaio said:

Their sales sides of things has always been 1st class.

Isn't that always the case with any company.

Try calling a customer service phone line and you have to wait forever.

Call a sales line and you are talking to someone within seconds.

It is about time that companies realised that it is the customer who they should be focussing on and not profits. Keep the customer happy and profits roll in.

[Gingerbread Man]

Is it classed as a restocking/ admin fee?

I'm not surprised though as it's often the case when you send things back. It would have been different if the product was faulty but why should they pay for your dicking about?

[motormania]

PeetBee said:

Well, to be fair to them they have given a refund just because you changed your mind rather than due to a fault.

Buying from the web is classed as distance selling, I am within my rights to send anything back within the stated return policy for a full refund. Nothing about them being fair to me!

Gingerbread Man said:

Is it classed as a restocking/ admin fee?

I'm not surprised though as it's often the case when you send things back. It would have been different if the product was faulty but why should they pay for your dicking about?

It's not about restocking/admin fee at all, it's bad customer service.

You don't pay a restocking fee when you take something back to a high street shop. What is it with Internet traders, they think they can charge what ever they like!!

Like I said, if I'd opened the box I would have agreed with their views, but this is just a bloody joke. Their lose is someone else's gain and now that I can buy things far cheaper from either the US or Hong Kong, it's an even bigger lose to them especially as I have £100's to spend.

Edited by motormania on Wednesday 27th February 13:57

[BigMansZetec]

motormania said:

You don't pay a restocking fee when you take something back to a high street shop.

I think the only high street stores that might, are the Apple stores.

[motormania]

BigMansZetec said:

motormania said:

You don't pay a restocking fee when you take something back to a high street shop.

I think the only high street stores that might, are the Apple stores.

would not expect anything less from Apple

great idea the iPhone - lets see how much money people will pay for something that they don't want!!

Off on a tangent, sorry - we have 4 iPhones in the office and, yes they may look nice, but in terms of functionality they are crap. The best phones we have in the office by far are the Nokia N95 and for those on a budget the N73 is a little stunner. We also had deliver last week of the new Samsung F700 for testing, again stunning phone with the slide out qwerty keyboard, but not very good when you try and use it, shame cos it's stunning like the iPhone. Nokia may not made the most stunning phones, but at least they work

Edited by motormania on Wednesday 27th February 20:44

[PeetBee]

I wonder how they (or anyone else) can get away with stating it's in their T&C if it goes against distance selling regualtions then?
Also did you have any joy with the fact that they'd overcahrged you to start with?

[motormania]

PeetBee said:

I wonder how they (or anyone else) can get away with stating it's in their T&C if it goes against distance selling regualtions then?
Also did you have any joy with the fact that they'd overcahrged you to start with?

I have sent them several emails to state my disgust at how they have treated me as a new customer. When you buy anything from their site it never states the postage costs, even through to the confirmation email. It would appear they calculate the cost of postage per weight of order when you read the small print. I mentioned that I was going to investigate where I stand legally with regard this.

Funny then that I get a call from the boss first thing this morning!! Funny how they sit up when you decide to take things further...

He explained the extra charge was in fact the delivery charge and that he was within his right as a trader to charge me up to 15% handling fee for taking the item back but decided not to and only kept the cost of postage. I explained to him that when I used to run an ecommerce business that if customers returned items that they had order by mistake that I would offer full refunds, and pointed out that these same customers tended to come back to me and purchase more, something I shall not be doing with them. That fell on deaf ears with the guy which does not surprise me.

I shall be speaking with trading standards in the coming days and will keep you posted as to what happens, and more importantly what our rights as consumers really are when dealing with internet ecommerce sites. I know for a fact that not showing postage costs in your shopping bag goes against Internet etiquette, but I thought I could trust an established business like theirs...

[motormania]

• * IMPORTANT CONSUMER ADVICE ***

I have been speaking with Trading Standards with regard the issue I have had with money being refunded back to me, or more precise the original delivery charge which the retailer has been refusing to give back to me.

I had thought that Internet sales fell under the rules and regulations for 'Distance Selling' which they do Good news for us consumers, so for those who thought I was being a pain in the butt trying to chase £2.25 delivery charge, well I have the law behind me, see the notes from Trading Standards which they sent through to me. Worth while knowing your rights, especially the bit about being able to return an item purchased online within 7 days for what ever reason you like...

This is what TS said to me:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct dated 28/02/2008. Your reference number for this case is XXX and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.

Under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, a consumer is granted a 7 day period in which they are able to return goods to the trader for any reason, however this should be done at the consumers expense.

The trader is obliged to refund the initial purchase price plus initial postage costs.

We would recommend you contact the trader stating that if the initial shipping charge of £2.25 is not returned to you within 14 working days, you will consider them in breach of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations and may take further action.

If you require any further advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.

Thank you for your enquiry.

Consumer Direct East Midlands

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's to the power of consumer knowledge

Use it wisely

[Bungleaio]

I bet apex love you! Fair play fo sticking to your guns though mate, I should imagine you'll get the refund in full fairly soon now.

[motormania]

Bungleaio said:

I bet apex love you! Fair play fo sticking to your guns though mate, I should imagine you'll get the refund in full fairly soon now.

TBH I know it sounds like a cliché, but it was not the money, it was the principle that got my back up. After all, it cost me more than £2.25 to ship the item back via a secure signed for delivery service. However this has been useful as it reinforces what I thought was correct in terms of what my rights were. At least I can use that one if anyone tries it on in the future

BTW,

Bungleaio, Apex would have loved me more if they done the correct thing in the first place as I have now just spent over £400 on a brushless system and radio kit. Radio coming from Hong Kong, the Novak from the Losi guys you mentioned. In all I have been able to actually save around £80 by buying overseas.

I will still keep buying the small stuff in the UK, but would certainly suggest others look at geting your big purchases over seas becasue even with the delivery, it is far cheaper.

Oh and to finish this thread on a positive... Demon Products, I salute you excellent service I've had this month with a few little bits and bobs I've needed as I slowly get everything ready for racing. They have certainly got my repeat business for further online orders...

Edited by motormania on Saturday 1st March 12:19

[BigMansZetec]

[quote=motormania

Oh and to finish this thread on a positive... Demon Products, I salute you excellent service I've had this month with a few little bits and bobs I've needed as I slowly get everything ready for racing. They have certainly got my repeat business for further online orders...

[/quote]

Is that Nick Adams's business? Excellent source for good value matched batteries, built to your spec.

[motormania]

BigMansZetec said:

Is that Nick Adams's business? Excellent source for good value matched batteries, built to your spec.

If you mean Demon Products of ALdershot then yes

http://www.demonpowerproducts.co.uk/

[BigMansZetec]

Yeah thats the one. Seems to be a much bigger operation than he was a few years back.

[peterguk V6 KWK]

Don't see the problem personally.

You buy goods, decide you don't really want them, and return them.

The supplier charges no restocking fee, have paid to process your payment, supplied packing materials, paid someone to pack and despatch your order, and they want £2.25 back. Sound like good service to me.