Brushless Motors for RC cars

[Ross_328i_sport]

Have any people on here got any of the latest brushless motor systems, if you have, any words of advice. I am thinking of buying a system beacuse of the low maintanance and low temperature compared to the brushed equivalents. Just doin research so i make the best choice.

Thanks

Ross

[anonymous-user]

Most require a new esc. mamba do some good ones. What are you looking at putting it in?

[Martin TH]

Novak and LRP do some very good ones, expensive though, and mamba do some crazy fast stuff. As mentioned, it’s best to know what type of applications you want to use it for before recommending (on road, off road etc.).

[Ross_328i_sport]

Sorry i fogot to put the application it's for 4wD 1/10th scale buggies (off road)
i have been looking at the novak gtb with the 4.5 motor best price i could find was £195 but then i saw thye lrp competion one 4 £180 just the speedo is the LRP one the best or not.

[tedmaul]

Ross_328i_sport said:

Sorry i fogot to put the application it's for 4wD 1/10th scale buggies (off road)
i have been looking at the novak gtb with the 4.5 motor best price i could find was £195 but then i saw thye lrp competion one 4 £180 just the speedo is the LRP one the best or not.

I have a brushed LRP Quantum and its superb, if the brushless is as good, then it will be great. I think LRP and Nosram are re-badged versions of the same kit?? I think Apex have some decent web offers too, they normally do

[roop]

I run a couple of brushless motors. They are excellent although pricey. To be honest, unless you are really into maximising your runtimes then don't bother because a good brushed setup is just as competitive.

For example, the winners of the IFMAR 1/10th and 1/12th on-roads neither had brushless setups althoug there were brushless cars in the race. The batteries are good enough these days to last and brushed motors still have huge punch. Unless you are desperate to blow 200 sheets I wouldn't bother until they get cheaper.

As for maintenance, a strip and clean takes 10 minutes, comm skim and new brushes every few months is no biggie. Although brushless are bulletproof in this respect.

With B.less ESC it'd be nice if your ESC can handle sensor and sensorless motors. That way you keep options open.

Edited for typo

Edited by roop on Tuesday 20th March 09:38

[Ross_328i_sport]

The reason i want to go brushless is that the motor brushes need replacing and motor skimmed every 2 weeks and also i havnt finished a 5 minute race in a long time due to the temperature of the motor keeps unsoldering the motor wire after 4 minutes. Therefore in the long run it will be far cheaper to go with the bruushless motors all i want ot know is which is the best one an what differences does it have compared to the novak gtb.

Thanks

Ross

[roop]

Ross,

There's a serious problem if your motor wires are unsoldering themselves. Given the assumption that your drivetrain is as free from binding as possible then the chances are very high that your buggy is overgeared. This has the result of putting huge strain on the motor, drawing massive current and overheating the motor. The end result is batteries going flat much faster and the brushes getting way too hot and literally crumbling away under load.

Switching to brushless will not fix this...! Provided your brushless ESC is a good one, it'll keep tripping out due to overheat. If it's a cheapie, you will just knacker it quicksmart.

Either gear the buggy right down or chuck in something like a Tamiya Super Stock RZ motor. 23t with massive torque (500g/cm). Loads of punch to use with high geared buggies. I bet it's quicker than whatever modified you are running now and will last a lot longer as well. Try the gearing first though as it's cheaper.

Don't waste £££'s on brushless until you've cure the problem.

Ross_328i_sport said:

The reason i want to go brushless is that the motor brushes need replacing and motor skimmed every 2 weeks and also i havnt finished a 5 minute race in a long time due to the temperature of the motor keeps unsoldering the motor wire after 4 minutes. Therefore in the long run it will be far cheaper to go with the bruushless motors all i want ot know is which is the best one an what differences does it have compared to the novak gtb.

Thanks

Ross

[tedmaul]

roop said:

Ross,

There's a serious problem if your motor wires are unsoldering themselves. Given the assumption that your drivetrain is as free from binding as possible then the chances are very high that your buggy is overgeared. This has the result of putting huge strain on the motor, drawing massive current and overheating the motor. The end result is batteries going flat much faster and the brushes getting way too hot and literally crumbling away under load.

Switching to brushless will not fix this...! Provided your brushless ESC is a good one, it'll keep tripping out due to overheat. If it's a cheapie, you will just knacker it quicksmart.

Either gear the buggy right down or chuck in something like a Tamiya Super Stock RZ motor. 23t with massive torque (500g/cm). Loads of punch to use with high geared buggies. I bet it's quicker than whatever modified you are running now and will last a lot longer as well. Try the gearing first though as it's cheaper.

Don't waste £££'s on brushless until you've cure the problem.

Ross_328i_sport said:

The reason i want to go brushless is that the motor brushes need replacing and motor skimmed every 2 weeks and also i havnt finished a 5 minute race in a long time due to the temperature of the motor keeps unsoldering the motor wire after 4 minutes. Therefore in the long run it will be far cheaper to go with the bruushless motors all i want ot know is which is the best one an what differences does it have compared to the novak gtb.

Thanks

Ross

And then some... If the motor is getting hot enough to de-solder, you don't have a motor problem, you have a resistance problem. Maybe the bearings in the motor are knackered, so start with them. Does the car run smoothly with the motor pinion removed? if you push the rolling chassis, it should do just that, i.e. roll for a good couple of metres. If it pulls up abruptly, then there is resistance in the transmission.

What chassis do you have? Does the speedo get hot too? What cell capacity do you run?

[Ross_328i_sport]

I run the yokomo mr4-bx with nosram dominator speedo and peak 11x2 vantage spashett edition and top spec 4200 batteries. The car rolls alot more than a couple of meters with the pinion removed. The gearing is fine with what everybody else in the club runs with with no to tight a mesh. The problem being is my agrressive drving style and with one person gone brushless already and experiencing a lot less heat in the motor this seems the best idea. This is indoors and does have an effect if it were outside i would think the motor would not be a problem.

Thanks
Ross

P.s What i really want to know is why is the LRP so much more than the novak brushless

[tedmaul]

Ross_328i_sport said:

I run the yokomo mr4-bx with nosram dominator speedo and peak 11x2 vantage spashett edition and top spec 4200 batteries. The car rolls alot more than a couple of meters with the pinion removed. The gearing is fine with what everybody else in the club runs with with no to tight a mesh. The problem being is my agrressive drving style and with one person gone brushless already and experiencing a lot less heat in the motor this seems the best idea. This is indoors and does have an effect if it were outside i would think the motor would not be a problem.

Thanks
Ross

P.s What i really want to know is why is the LRP so much more than the novak brushless

I've no idea - certainly LRP appear to be bringing out a better range of brushless motors so you will have more scope in future.

Have you posted on rcracechat.com? There are a couple of pros and shop owners who regularly post and they may have a better answer. Its a great site to look at anyway!

[KUB3]

I had the Novak when they first appeared. BL is far too powerful for 2WD so 4WD becomes essential. The size of the speedo is a bit of a pain too.

I belive a better alternative is the Orion system which has the benefits of both BL and brush - it's a unique design. Meaning lower cost, low maintainence, smaller speedo of your choice.

Edited by KUB3 on Monday 2nd April 16:37

[runway78]

Ross_328i_sport said:

I run the yokomo mr4-bx with nosram dominator speedo and peak 11x2 vantage spashett edition and top spec 4200 batteries. The car rolls alot more than a couple of meters with the pinion removed. The gearing is fine with what everybody else in the club runs with with no to tight a mesh. The problem being is my agrressive drving style and with one person gone brushless already and experiencing a lot less heat in the motor this seems the best idea. This is indoors and does have an effect if it were outside i would think the motor would not be a problem.

Thanks
Ross

P.s What i really want to know is why is the LRP so much more than the novak brushless

I remember pitting 5 years ago next to a guy who had built his own bushless motor. The temperature of the motor at the end was unreal. This is the future. Depends where you race and on what surface. Large out door tracks will suit brushless better than small tight indoor carpet racing.
Even though motors are easy to maintian, I am really drawn to a brushless set up, as I replace my modified motor every 4-6 months when I raced due to wear. (racing upto 3 times a week get expensive!)
On your over heating problem, does sound like something is wrong somewhere. Might be your speed controller has a problem. Is there anyone at your local club who repairs them? I usually found at least one father in the crowd was a electronics wizard and would sort a problem out!