RC aircraft, first timer...
Discussion
I've always fancied a go at RC aircraft, having dabbled a bit with RC yachts and also RC 1/10 and 1/24 crawlers. Two unbuilt kit aircraft, a Bede and a P51 popped up at our village garage sale a couple of weeks ago for a tenner each and I couldn't resist. I know you are supposed to ideally start with a trainer aeroplane, but as I have previous RC experience (so hopefully I won't brainfart when it's coming towards me), and as I am a private pilot in real life, I might have a bit of a head start. So I have a few questions...
1-Is the above logic sound, or do I really, really need a trainer? If so, any ideas which one? What about an iPad sim (or even Xbox if there is such a thing)
2-I'll attach the list of parts I need for the Bede...are there any recommendations for modern equivalents, and is it worth looking at Aliexpress or similar for lower end bits? Is the motor I have suitable?
3-Joining a club...I did wander up to the BMFA HQ near me a last summer to try and talk to some people about how to get started. Being frank, it was all a bit serious, you can't do this, it's all very hard, I didn't quite have the heart to say they were making it all sound more serious/regulated/dangerous than flying an actual aeroplane! Any thoughts on this, is it better to just join a smaller local club, or do I not need to join at all?
4-Unfortunately the Bede doesn't have any instructions, and it looks like "OK Model Co Japan" don't make it anymore. I will contact them in case they have a download etc, but if anyone has any useful info about how to build it that would be great!
Any other info gratefully received! Thanks.
1-Is the above logic sound, or do I really, really need a trainer? If so, any ideas which one? What about an iPad sim (or even Xbox if there is such a thing)
2-I'll attach the list of parts I need for the Bede...are there any recommendations for modern equivalents, and is it worth looking at Aliexpress or similar for lower end bits? Is the motor I have suitable?
3-Joining a club...I did wander up to the BMFA HQ near me a last summer to try and talk to some people about how to get started. Being frank, it was all a bit serious, you can't do this, it's all very hard, I didn't quite have the heart to say they were making it all sound more serious/regulated/dangerous than flying an actual aeroplane! Any thoughts on this, is it better to just join a smaller local club, or do I not need to join at all?
4-Unfortunately the Bede doesn't have any instructions, and it looks like "OK Model Co Japan" don't make it anymore. I will contact them in case they have a download etc, but if anyone has any useful info about how to build it that would be great!
Any other info gratefully received! Thanks.
Edited by Hard-Drive on Sunday 20th July 17:17
Edited by Hard-Drive on Sunday 20th July 17:18
My take on your questions
1. I don t think you need a trainer in your case no, but equally I think if you go straight in to the Bede or the P51, it could end in tears. Being a private pilot and having previous re experience is certainly a plus but personally I don t feel it s sufficient, especially as I ve been a full-size professional pilot for 30 years and feel it doesn t read across enough. FWIW, I d buy a cheap £10 eBay dongle and download one of the free, legacy rc sims and have a practice on a PC first.
2. I don t have any experience of Aliexpress RC parts sorry. Also, I can t see the exact spec of your motor from the photo, it may be suitable but its difficult to say without knowing all the numbers on the side.
3. Definitely join the BMFA and an affiliated club. The BMFA annual fee gets you the insurance cover and joining a club gets you in to a decent place to fly from with like minded people who are usually really happy to help out. Flying your Bede in the local park is really not going to work due to fast nature of that particularly model.
4. No particular experience with that model but it doesn t look too tricky to sort out. Just fit a suitable motor, prop and ESC and a 3s2200 battery, set the control throws sensibly and the Centre of Gravity to 1/3 the wing chord and it should be fine.
1. I don t think you need a trainer in your case no, but equally I think if you go straight in to the Bede or the P51, it could end in tears. Being a private pilot and having previous re experience is certainly a plus but personally I don t feel it s sufficient, especially as I ve been a full-size professional pilot for 30 years and feel it doesn t read across enough. FWIW, I d buy a cheap £10 eBay dongle and download one of the free, legacy rc sims and have a practice on a PC first.
2. I don t have any experience of Aliexpress RC parts sorry. Also, I can t see the exact spec of your motor from the photo, it may be suitable but its difficult to say without knowing all the numbers on the side.
3. Definitely join the BMFA and an affiliated club. The BMFA annual fee gets you the insurance cover and joining a club gets you in to a decent place to fly from with like minded people who are usually really happy to help out. Flying your Bede in the local park is really not going to work due to fast nature of that particularly model.
4. No particular experience with that model but it doesn t look too tricky to sort out. Just fit a suitable motor, prop and ESC and a 3s2200 battery, set the control throws sensibly and the Centre of Gravity to 1/3 the wing chord and it should be fine.
Currently, models under 250 grammes are pretty much unregulated, although don't go flying them near airfields or sensitive locations without permission. Over 250g you have to have an operator identification and a flyer identification, which are generally easiest to get by joining the BMFA and taking the appropriate tests.
The OMPHobby T720 from HobbyRC OMPHobby T720 from HobbyRC would be my recommendation for a first model (when it is back in stock), for all the reasons I set out in this thread.
The standard advice around most modelling forums is to contact George at 4Max to sort out a suitable drive train. He gave a lecture at our club a few months ago, and he certainly made a few good points that I hadn't considered.
I have taught a good number of full-size pilots to fly models, and the knowledge they had certainly helps. Disorientation is the major issue, although your R/C boat and car experience will help here. Choosing the right conditions is a big help. No more than 5mph wind speed, or you will be disappearing downwind and out of your flying site before you know it.
A buddy box and an experienced flier as an instructor are without doubt the best way to learn, backed up with simulator time whenever possible.
The OMPHobby T720 from HobbyRC OMPHobby T720 from HobbyRC would be my recommendation for a first model (when it is back in stock), for all the reasons I set out in this thread.
The standard advice around most modelling forums is to contact George at 4Max to sort out a suitable drive train. He gave a lecture at our club a few months ago, and he certainly made a few good points that I hadn't considered.
I have taught a good number of full-size pilots to fly models, and the knowledge they had certainly helps. Disorientation is the major issue, although your R/C boat and car experience will help here. Choosing the right conditions is a big help. No more than 5mph wind speed, or you will be disappearing downwind and out of your flying site before you know it.
A buddy box and an experienced flier as an instructor are without doubt the best way to learn, backed up with simulator time whenever possible.
Edited by GliderRider on Monday 21st July 13:55
Hard-Drive said:
I've always fancied a go at RC aircraft, having dabbled a bit with RC yachts and also RC 1/10 and 1/24 crawlers. Two unbuilt kit aircraft, a Bede and a P51 popped up at our village garage sale a couple of weeks ago for a tenner each and I couldn't resist. I know you are supposed to ideally start with a trainer aeroplane, but as I have previous RC experience (so hopefully I won't brainfart when it's coming towards me), and as I am a private pilot in real life, I might have a bit of a head start. So I have a few questions...
1-Is the above logic sound, or do I really, really need a trainer? If so, any ideas which one? What about an iPad sim (or even Xbox if there is such a thing)
2-I'll attach the list of parts I need for the Bede...are there any recommendations for modern equivalents, and is it worth looking at Aliexpress or similar for lower end bits? Is the motor I have suitable?
3-Joining a club...I did wander up to the BMFA HQ near me a last summer to try and talk to some people about how to get started. Being frank, it was all a bit serious, you can't do this, it's all very hard, I didn't quite have the heart to say they were making it all sound more serious/regulated/dangerous than flying an actual aeroplane! Any thoughts on this, is it better to just join a smaller local club, or do I not need to join at all?
4-Unfortunately the Bede doesn't have any instructions, and it looks like "OK Model Co Japan" don't make it anymore. I will contact them in case they have a download etc, but if anyone has any useful info about how to build it that would be great!
Any other info gratefully received! Thanks.
Good evening.1-Is the above logic sound, or do I really, really need a trainer? If so, any ideas which one? What about an iPad sim (or even Xbox if there is such a thing)
2-I'll attach the list of parts I need for the Bede...are there any recommendations for modern equivalents, and is it worth looking at Aliexpress or similar for lower end bits? Is the motor I have suitable?
3-Joining a club...I did wander up to the BMFA HQ near me a last summer to try and talk to some people about how to get started. Being frank, it was all a bit serious, you can't do this, it's all very hard, I didn't quite have the heart to say they were making it all sound more serious/regulated/dangerous than flying an actual aeroplane! Any thoughts on this, is it better to just join a smaller local club, or do I not need to join at all?
4-Unfortunately the Bede doesn't have any instructions, and it looks like "OK Model Co Japan" don't make it anymore. I will contact them in case they have a download etc, but if anyone has any useful info about how to build it that would be great!
Any other info gratefully received! Thanks.
Edited by Hard-Drive on Sunday 20th July 17:17
Edited by Hard-Drive on Sunday 20th July 17:18
So you are a private pilot. Doddle. You know what the ailerons do, rudder elevator, thottle do - the same.
It s the orientation that is going to be the big issue, ( as Glider Rider says. As a pilot sat at the controls, with instruments. You have your view point, instruments and feeling..
With an RC plane, you are constantly thinking what you did a split second ago. Large scale slow moving stuff is easy. Smaller quick moving stuff - you are in the deck within seconds.
It s hard to explain, no matter what your colour scheme, it normally appears a dull outline in the sky. It can be banking one way, you are convinced it s going the other way.
I was a much better pilot when I was in my teens, early twenties. Simply the brain was sharper. I m getting back ( slowly to where I once was). It s all about reactions and thinking quickly!
When I learned to fly RC Aircraft. I was about 13. I had the owner of the local Model shop stood behind me , he stood behind me, and him guiding my fingers on the sticks. It took about 6 months - until he said you re on your own now . Gulp?
You are in so much of a better position now than I was in over 30 years go. There is so much out there to help you. Sims etc.
When I got back into it, I had a go on my mates Foamy Electric . I d been out of flying for 30 years plus.
I soon picked it up. Within minutes.
It s like riding a bike or driving a car. It becomes memory items and concentration. It s very rewarding when you get it right. I struggle a bit with my landings, a lot of my models come in extremely quick. It matters not how much I circle and try and scrub off speed.
Getting that aircraft down, on a lumpy, bumpy ridge, surrounded by surrounded by boulders. It s an ancient Roman Settlement. See my videos.
As for joining clubs?
I’d rather not!
Lots of rules, procedures, stuffiness, enough to put you off a rewarding hobby - forever.
Edited by Jim H on Monday 21st July 18:30
I've never flown a real plane, but I'd imagine flying RC is a lot different. As someone else mentioned, orientation is going to be the big one, plus most (non large-scale) RC planes fly nothing like the real thing.
I'd suggest joining a club; they're not all stuffy and boring, and they're full of people who can help you out. Most clubs have trainer plains and a buddy box system to help get you started. Failing that, if you have a large field or park nearby, buy something small and light like a Hobbyzone Champ (Horizon Hobby) and practice with that.
I wouldn't start with those planes though for sure. Warbirds are notoriously difficult to fly, and the one pictured looks fast, heavy, and like it would have high wing loading. Not good for a beginner!
I'd suggest joining a club; they're not all stuffy and boring, and they're full of people who can help you out. Most clubs have trainer plains and a buddy box system to help get you started. Failing that, if you have a large field or park nearby, buy something small and light like a Hobbyzone Champ (Horizon Hobby) and practice with that.
I wouldn't start with those planes though for sure. Warbirds are notoriously difficult to fly, and the one pictured looks fast, heavy, and like it would have high wing loading. Not good for a beginner!
The OP is braver than me. After flying model gliders and control line at school it was very evident that R/C had a very high risk of being a square yard of matchwood in a very short time. Accordingly I switched to model boats!
As for the orientation, could it be flown using a forward-facing cockpit camera and monitor on the ground? (presumably a phone these days). But everything will still happen 10x quicker than a full size aeroplane.
As for the orientation, could it be flown using a forward-facing cockpit camera and monitor on the ground? (presumably a phone these days). But everything will still happen 10x quicker than a full size aeroplane.
Simpo Two said:
As for the orientation, could it be flown using a forward-facing cockpit camera and monitor on the ground? (presumably a phone these days). But everything will still happen 10x quicker than a full size aeroplane.
Yes, you can theoretically fly pretty much any model using fpv, but you then need to have a 'spotter' with you and it can't be flown beyond line of (unassisted) sight.Easier to get hold of a proper trainer type and/or using a sim to build up the muscle memory and orientation.
Kim
Thanks for all of the thoughts guys. In no particular order...
-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
Hard-Drive said:
Thanks for all of the thoughts guys. In no particular order...
-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
Good morning.-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
When you are asking size, I presume you mean wingspan? As a rule of thumb my own opinion is anything over a 50 inch span. My Acro Wot is 57, Wot 4, 54 inch. That’s about the sweet spot.
I have 3 other aircraft around the 40 inch mark. They are all quick models and go out of sight, and observed orientation rather rapidly. It’s funny you can often think a smaller model will be easier to fly. In my experience I find them more of a challenge than larger aircraft.
My little E flight Sportix is 41 inch. First flight I nearly binned it. Unfamiliar with it, it was a fair distance from me, and low. Lost orientation and only just caught it when I remembered what I’d done last (input control).
Smaller ones can be a bit twitchier also, however that can all be dialled out with modern Radio.
HTH.
Hard-Drive said:
Thanks for all of the thoughts guys. In no particular order...
-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
If you're determined to go it alone with a 'full sized' model, then I'd recommend something like the FMS Ranger 1220 https://www.kingslynnmodelshop.co.uk/fms-1220mm-ra...-The Bede and P51 will stay in their boxes for now. Having been to a model show at Melton Mowbray at the weekend and seeing two display pilots end up in trees, I definitely want to go with something slow to start with.
-GliderRider, the T720 looks like an interesting aircraft but I really want to fly something a bit more "scale" and with wheels. Belly landing in the grass all the time won't scratch the itch to be learning how to do a decent landing (and some I observed at the show were brilliant). So I'd much rather be looking at something that looks like a C152/172, Cub, PA28 etc. Any recomendations?
-FPV, to be honest doesn't really do it for mem without sounding like a d1ck I'd just fly for real, fly MS Flight Sim, or fly a drone. I want to "see" the model aircraft fly, that's part of the attraction.
-What is the minimum size I should be looking at? I am lucky as I live in a village, with a very large, very underutilised sports field free of trees, 99% of the time there will be no-one up there (a local model club use it as their flying field on a Sunday afternoon), so I'm happy to go a bit bigger if it's easier to see/fly.
You'd also need to source transmitter / receiver and flight batteries, so not a cheap purchase, but with the 'Reflex' gyro system, it'll give you the best chance of success.
Please also be mindful of the need for registration with the CAA, etc. and the advisability of insurance, easily available from the BMFA, as is information on the registration process.
The little 400 - 500mm wingspan models have the advantage of not needing the above registration formalities (at present!!)
Oh and don't dismiss the use of a flight sim out of hand, it helps enormously with co-ordination, orientation and building up muscle memory. Many free to download from 'tinternet too, so no huge investment required!!
Hope that helps
Kim
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