Anyone share an interest in 1/43 white metal models / kits?
Discussion
Fantastic. Thought it might be fun / interesting to open a forum for lovers of white metal (car) models and kits.
My particular interest lies in post-war sports, GT and luxury cars and the occasional single seater and sports-racer.
The one problem with the (somewhat niche) white metal medium is that one's collection will inevitably be finite. But I'm an avowed fan of this material (with no interest in resin models whatsoever).
My particular interest lies in post-war sports, GT and luxury cars and the occasional single seater and sports-racer.
The one problem with the (somewhat niche) white metal medium is that one's collection will inevitably be finite. But I'm an avowed fan of this material (with no interest in resin models whatsoever).
In the ‘80’s I built a few random 1:43 white metal car kits (MG EX 135, the MG “Humbug”, Birkin Bentley, MG K3, MGB etc), but not to a great standard. I also built a Ferrari 156/85 around that time, and always wanted another to see if I could improve. A couple of years back my workmates got wind of this, and for my birthday got me the Tameo version, which I’ve built, plus a ‘vintage’ Western Models Tyrrell P34 prototype that they somehow found on EBay (from France!). The latter is a kit my late dad built with me in the ‘70’s, and again I wanted to try again with the benefit of experience. The Tyrrell is on hold while I can source someone who can print high quality custom white, and florescent yellow decals.
The build thread for the Ferrari is here if you’re interested:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ETA when I replied “both”, I misunderstood - I’ve never bought a white metal pre-built kit, but do have a few 1:43 die cast cars (Jaguar C, D & E-types, plus a couple of ‘80’s Group C cars which will hopefully be the beginning of a small collection of my favourites from that era).
The build thread for the Ferrari is here if you’re interested:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ETA when I replied “both”, I misunderstood - I’ve never bought a white metal pre-built kit, but do have a few 1:43 die cast cars (Jaguar C, D & E-types, plus a couple of ‘80’s Group C cars which will hopefully be the beginning of a small collection of my favourites from that era).
Edited by dr_gn on Sunday 1st October 00:24
Thank you for such a compelling post! I now understand your preference for kits over factory builds - your skills transcend craftsmanship; I think you're an artist (your Tyrell project demonstrates that you go way, way beyond observance of build instructions). You're also fortunate to have colleagues that fully comprehend the compelling nature of Tameo kits and Western model rarities!
I own a number of SMTS factory-built models, have previously commissioned some Enco kit builds and have also previously purchased some built kits from Ebay (I especially covet the latter; the majority of those who build white metal kits invarianly lavish much care, attention and love on their preferred subjects and I genuinely appreciate the efforts of others in this regard).
I currently own an older, extremely rare - yet highly detailed - Japanese WM kit of a Toyota 2000GT. You won't believe how nervous I am regarding who to ultimately commission to build this kit!
Ive also 'laid down' a couple of Le Phoenix and Piranha kits and am thinking of acquiring a Feeling43 white metal Daytona kit - we shall see!
Speaking of die casts, I might very, very occasionally indulge in Minichamps, Kyosho and Autoart.
I own a number of SMTS factory-built models, have previously commissioned some Enco kit builds and have also previously purchased some built kits from Ebay (I especially covet the latter; the majority of those who build white metal kits invarianly lavish much care, attention and love on their preferred subjects and I genuinely appreciate the efforts of others in this regard).
I currently own an older, extremely rare - yet highly detailed - Japanese WM kit of a Toyota 2000GT. You won't believe how nervous I am regarding who to ultimately commission to build this kit!
Ive also 'laid down' a couple of Le Phoenix and Piranha kits and am thinking of acquiring a Feeling43 white metal Daytona kit - we shall see!
Speaking of die casts, I might very, very occasionally indulge in Minichamps, Kyosho and Autoart.
Back in the 70s I built quite a few, including John Cobb's Napier Railton and a Chitty Bang Bang. I can't remember the maker, but I also made a few of Western Models kits - Mercedes 540K, Lagonda Rapide, Bugatti 57SC and a 120 fhc. The latter just never looked right! At university I made a few bob building kits for a man who produced kits - an odd assortment including a horse drawn fire engine and a barge! I'd written a couple of articles for the now defunct "Scale Models" which is how he'd got in touch. I pretty much gave up on models when our children were small, though I won a competition where the prize was a Shelvoke and Drewry dust cart of all things!
I'm back into model cars in a way - mostly old diecasts and especially Dinky Toys, so the last kit I did was a Triumph Dolomite Dinky lookalike - a very simple kit which looks the part alongside the genuine cars in the series.
I'm back into model cars in a way - mostly old diecasts and especially Dinky Toys, so the last kit I did was a Triumph Dolomite Dinky lookalike - a very simple kit which looks the part alongside the genuine cars in the series.
Lighterman1 said:
Thank you for such a compelling post! I now understand your preference for kits over factory builds - your skills transcend craftsmanship; I think you're an artist (your Tyrell project demonstrates that you go way, way beyond observance of build instructions). You're also fortunate to have colleagues that fully comprehend the compelling nature of Tameo kits and Western model rarities!
I own a number of SMTS factory-built models, have previously commissioned some Enco kit builds and have also previously purchased some built kits from Ebay (I especially covet the latter; the majority of those who build white metal kits invarianly lavish much care, attention and love on their preferred subjects and I genuinely appreciate the efforts of others in this regard).
I currently own an older, extremely rare - yet highly detailed - Japanese WM kit of a Toyota 2000GT. You won't believe how nervous I am regarding who to ultimately commission to build this kit!
Ive also 'laid down' a couple of Le Phoenix and Piranha kits and am thinking of acquiring a Feeling43 white metal Daytona kit - we shall see!
Speaking of die casts, I might very, very occasionally indulge in Minichamps, Kyosho and Autoart.
Thanks. Yes, my diecasts are Minichamps or Kyosho or similar - very nice models and good value considering the detail. The thing is, I'd love to build them from kits myself, but it would just take far too long for me to build anything like a decent collection in white metal.I own a number of SMTS factory-built models, have previously commissioned some Enco kit builds and have also previously purchased some built kits from Ebay (I especially covet the latter; the majority of those who build white metal kits invarianly lavish much care, attention and love on their preferred subjects and I genuinely appreciate the efforts of others in this regard).
I currently own an older, extremely rare - yet highly detailed - Japanese WM kit of a Toyota 2000GT. You won't believe how nervous I am regarding who to ultimately commission to build this kit!
Ive also 'laid down' a couple of Le Phoenix and Piranha kits and am thinking of acquiring a Feeling43 white metal Daytona kit - we shall see!
Speaking of die casts, I might very, very occasionally indulge in Minichamps, Kyosho and Autoart.
Out of interest - approximately how much does it cost for someone to build a white metal 1:43 kit? Something pretty standard - '60's sports car for example? Looks like it took me about a month and a half to build my Ferrari (working in the evenings). Let's say about 90 hours. Even at an average hourly rate, that's over £1600 not inculding materials. Have I got that totally wrong, or is it just my slow building that's skewing the figures?
I also build plastic models (and paper, plus model engineering - anything in small scale really). among others, I'm building an Airfix Vulcan at the moment, and there's someone on a related Facebook page who does commission builds. When I enquired, the cost - including a display case - it was IIRC about £250 including the cost of the kit - which at the time was about £70 - then you've got materials to consider. Given how long it's taking me to build mine to a decent standard, and the very real potential for screwing someone's rare model up, I can't fathom how people can make living out of commision builds. Of course there's the question of quality, and what people consider acceptable work, but that's another mystery to me given some of the commission builds I've seen on FB and varous modelling forums over the years.
dr_gn said:
Thanks. Yes, my diecasts are Minichamps or Kyosho or similar - very nice models and good value considering the detail. The thing is, I'd love to build them from kits myself, but it would just take far too long for me to build anything like a decent collection in white metal.
Out of interest - approximately how much does it cost for someone to build a white metal 1:43 kit? Something pretty standard - '60's sports car for example? Looks like it took me about a month and a half to build my Ferrari (working in the evenings). Let's say about 90 hours. Even at an average hourly rate, that's over £1600 not inculding materials. Have I got that totally wrong, or is it just my slow building that's skewing the figures?
I also build plastic models (and paper, plus model engineering - anything in small scale really). among others, I'm building an Airfix Vulcan at the moment, and there's someone on a related Facebook page who does commission builds. When I enquired, the cost - including a display case - it was IIRC about £250 including the cost of the kit - which at the time was about £70 - then you've got materials to consider. Given how long it's taking me to build mine to a decent standard, and the very real potential for screwing someone's rare model up, I can't fathom how people can make living out of commision builds. Of course there's the question of quality, and what people consider acceptable work, but that's another mystery to me given some of the commission builds I've seen on FB and varous modelling forums over the years.
Interesting!Out of interest - approximately how much does it cost for someone to build a white metal 1:43 kit? Something pretty standard - '60's sports car for example? Looks like it took me about a month and a half to build my Ferrari (working in the evenings). Let's say about 90 hours. Even at an average hourly rate, that's over £1600 not inculding materials. Have I got that totally wrong, or is it just my slow building that's skewing the figures?
I also build plastic models (and paper, plus model engineering - anything in small scale really). among others, I'm building an Airfix Vulcan at the moment, and there's someone on a related Facebook page who does commission builds. When I enquired, the cost - including a display case - it was IIRC about £250 including the cost of the kit - which at the time was about £70 - then you've got materials to consider. Given how long it's taking me to build mine to a decent standard, and the very real potential for screwing someone's rare model up, I can't fathom how people can make living out of commision builds. Of course there's the question of quality, and what people consider acceptable work, but that's another mystery to me given some of the commission builds I've seen on FB and varous modelling forums over the years.
Your skills, abilities, talents and perfectionism (which are virtues, not vices!) are evidently preventing you from further kit builds - which is a pity, given my obvious regard for your creativity! But I wholly understand the labour investment associated with your kit builds.
My usual 'go to' chap for kit builds used to charge me £70 per kit until very recently (based upon 7 hours of labour @ £10/hr) - although it should be noted that this rate reflected his retirement hobby and skill level (as distinct from profit-earning career choice). Subject matter will have included Jensen Interceptors, Lotus Europa and the like. For reasons of confidentiality, I'm reluctant to amplify here (although I'd be pleased to discuss privately).
I think your own costings are interesting - and entirely reasonable (but in no way comparable with my own experiences) - I say this, again, because your own skills and abilities shame those of many self-styled "professional" kit builders. I doubt that you are a slow builder - but I shall tentatively accuse you of being a meticulous perfectionist!
Lighterman1 said:
dr_gn said:
Thanks. Yes, my diecasts are Minichamps or Kyosho or similar - very nice models and good value considering the detail. The thing is, I'd love to build them from kits myself, but it would just take far too long for me to build anything like a decent collection in white metal.
Out of interest - approximately how much does it cost for someone to build a white metal 1:43 kit? Something pretty standard - '60's sports car for example? Looks like it took me about a month and a half to build my Ferrari (working in the evenings). Let's say about 90 hours. Even at an average hourly rate, that's over £1600 not inculding materials. Have I got that totally wrong, or is it just my slow building that's skewing the figures?
I also build plastic models (and paper, plus model engineering - anything in small scale really). among others, I'm building an Airfix Vulcan at the moment, and there's someone on a related Facebook page who does commission builds. When I enquired, the cost - including a display case - it was IIRC about £250 including the cost of the kit - which at the time was about £70 - then you've got materials to consider. Given how long it's taking me to build mine to a decent standard, and the very real potential for screwing someone's rare model up, I can't fathom how people can make living out of commision builds. Of course there's the question of quality, and what people consider acceptable work, but that's another mystery to me given some of the commission builds I've seen on FB and varous modelling forums over the years.
Interesting!Out of interest - approximately how much does it cost for someone to build a white metal 1:43 kit? Something pretty standard - '60's sports car for example? Looks like it took me about a month and a half to build my Ferrari (working in the evenings). Let's say about 90 hours. Even at an average hourly rate, that's over £1600 not inculding materials. Have I got that totally wrong, or is it just my slow building that's skewing the figures?
I also build plastic models (and paper, plus model engineering - anything in small scale really). among others, I'm building an Airfix Vulcan at the moment, and there's someone on a related Facebook page who does commission builds. When I enquired, the cost - including a display case - it was IIRC about £250 including the cost of the kit - which at the time was about £70 - then you've got materials to consider. Given how long it's taking me to build mine to a decent standard, and the very real potential for screwing someone's rare model up, I can't fathom how people can make living out of commision builds. Of course there's the question of quality, and what people consider acceptable work, but that's another mystery to me given some of the commission builds I've seen on FB and varous modelling forums over the years.
Your skills, abilities, talents and perfectionism (which are virtues, not vices!) are evidently preventing you from further kit builds - which is a pity, given my obvious regard for your creativity! But I wholly understand the labour investment associated with your kit builds.
My usual 'go to' chap for kit builds used to charge me £70 per kit until very recently (based upon 7 hours of labour @ £10/hr) - although it should be noted that this rate reflected his retirement hobby and skill level (as distinct from profit-earning career choice). Subject matter will have included Jensen Interceptors, Lotus Europa and the like. For reasons of confidentiality, I'm reluctant to amplify here (although I'd be pleased to discuss privately).
I think your own costings are interesting - and entirely reasonable (but in no way comparable with my own experiences) - I say this, again, because your own skills and abilities shame those of many self-styled "professional" kit builders. I doubt that you are a slow builder - but I shall tentatively accuse you of being a meticulous perfectionist!
Even so, I can't understand how anyone can build a white metal car kit in 7 hours! No need to elaborate, but yes, it's clear that your builder does it for the pleasure of just building a kit rather than making a living out of it. Cheers.
Lighterman1 said:
I'm compelled to ask - have you won many of the competitions you've entered (I believe I know the answer, but I'd like my suspicions confirmed!)?
As an aside, I don't possess the skills, aged 52, that you did in your teenage years (ref your first Johanssen Ferrari 156/85).
I’ve had some success in model competitions, but at the end of the day some models that I thought were spot-on didn’t do much at all, and vice-versa. End of the day, win or lose it’s the satisfaction of knowing that I couldn’t improve a model much that counts. BTW I’m 53 now. Been building models since I was about 5 or 6.As an aside, I don't possess the skills, aged 52, that you did in your teenage years (ref your first Johanssen Ferrari 156/85).
Back to white metal - I’m now wanting to make a start on the Tyrrell…although the last thing I need is another model in-progress!
I've got three white metal Audi quattro rally cars made by a company called "Racing 43", which I think makes them 1:43, they certainly look around the correct size for that. As I recall it, I bought them cheap (maybe £5 each) from a model fair at Stoneleigh years ago, intending to make them, as I'd been inspired by some of the club displays that were on show at the same event. Given that stuff like the pedals are all individual parts, I'm not sure my eyesight is up to it now, if it ever was.
Mercdriver said:
Mid 60’s I bought wills finecast Bentley and jaguar SS, even modelled the Bentley on a car that a Perthshire garage owner had on display.
Stupidly sold them ten years later, wish I had kept them, the castings were high quality and the detail was good.
I believe Wills Finecast live on as South East Finecast:Stupidly sold them ten years later, wish I had kept them, the castings were high quality and the detail was good.
http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Contents.htm.
If you possess an interest in the history and development of the British white metal transport modelling industry (and it's key characters), then I can heartily recommend David Wright's book in this regard - available via his dedicated website or Ebay. At a modest £10, its good value too.
droopsnoot said:
I've got three white metal Audi quattro rally cars made by a company called "Racing 43", which I think makes them 1:43, they certainly look around the correct size for that. As I recall it, I bought them cheap (maybe £5 each) from a model fair at Stoneleigh years ago, intending to make them, as I'd been inspired by some of the club displays that were on show at the same event. Given that stuff like the pedals are all individual parts, I'm not sure my eyesight is up to it now, if it ever was.
I think you snagged a bargain at Stoneleigh, Droopsnoot!Hopefully your kilts shall be built someday - you could always award someone a commission...
Not sure if a Firenza Droopsnoot was ever reproduced in 1/43 white metal. I could research this if helpful?
Lighterman1 said:
Not sure if a Firenza Droopsnoot was ever reproduced in 1/43 white metal. I could research this if helpful?
I don't know if there's a white metal one, there has been a recent one available either as a kit or hand-built, but I'm not sure what it's made of. I didn't buy it because I didn't think the quality was up to it - I'd far rather pay more and get a super-detailed 1:18 model, and not have to have massive windscreen pillars and all the other bits that don't look right on a low-volume 1:43 kit. I expect someone could modify all that stuff, but it's beyond my current skill level, and it's good to see someone actually doing low-volume stuff like this, it's just not for me. I did have one kit that is intended to go on a Scalextric chassis, but because of that the shape around the bottom isn't good, and also the back screen - but then it was cheap.I had an idea the quattro kits were bargains - it was from a kit seller, so it's not like he didn't know what he had. I forget exactly what I paid, but their web site says they're around 45 euro each and I certainly wouldn't have bought three at that price.
Edited by droopsnoot on Saturday 7th October 18:43
I started building 1/43 scale white metal and resin kits in the mid 80s and also did many commissions. Having been out of the hobby for a few years now, I'm not sure which of the manufacturers are still active, or what they're producing. I do know that on the odd occasion I go onto the Grand Prix Models (or similar) website, the prices freak me out!
eBay can be a good source of second hand kits but prices are all over the place. Most of them seem wildly inflated to me, although I have picked up the odd bargain - as I'm bound to start up again at some point. The days when I could buy a kit for £15 including carriage and sell it on for £20 plus carriage are long gone however!
Someone was asking about early kits from the 70s; well the pioneer was John Day who started in 1971 and continued until about 1980. Believe it or not you can still pick them up although most people ask silly prices, which means they're not really worth it when you consider the general lack of quality/detail. (Although fitting a set of photo etched wire wheels works wonders where applicable.) My own collection contains 14 JD's, although only one now remains unbuilt, a 1954 Cooper-Norton F3.
eBay can be a good source of second hand kits but prices are all over the place. Most of them seem wildly inflated to me, although I have picked up the odd bargain - as I'm bound to start up again at some point. The days when I could buy a kit for £15 including carriage and sell it on for £20 plus carriage are long gone however!
Someone was asking about early kits from the 70s; well the pioneer was John Day who started in 1971 and continued until about 1980. Believe it or not you can still pick them up although most people ask silly prices, which means they're not really worth it when you consider the general lack of quality/detail. (Although fitting a set of photo etched wire wheels works wonders where applicable.) My own collection contains 14 JD's, although only one now remains unbuilt, a 1954 Cooper-Norton F3.
Edited by Stealthracer on Thursday 19th October 21:05
Stealthracer said:
I started building 1/43 scale white metal and resin kits in the mid 80s and also did many commissions. Having been out of the hobby for a few years now, I'm not sure which of the manufacturers are still active, or what they're producing. I do know that on the odd occasion I go onto the Grand Prix Models (or similar) website, the prices freak me out!
eBay can be a good source of second hand kits but prices are all over the place. Most of them seem wildly inflated to me, although I have picked up the odd bargain - as I'm bound to start up again at some point. The days when I could buy a kit for £15 including carriage and sell it on for £20 plus carriage are long gone however!
Someone was asking about early kits from the 70s; well the pioneer was John Day who started in 1971 and continued until about 1980. Believe it or not you can still pick them up although most people ask silly prices, which means they're not really worth it when you consider the general lack of quality/detail. (Although fitting a set of photo etched wire wheels works wonders where applicable.) My own collection contains 14 JD's, although only one now remains unbuilt, a 1954 Cooper-Norton F3.
If you have an interest in reasonably priced John Day kits, I can heartily recommend 'Auto Jaune Paris':eBay can be a good source of second hand kits but prices are all over the place. Most of them seem wildly inflated to me, although I have picked up the odd bargain - as I'm bound to start up again at some point. The days when I could buy a kit for £15 including carriage and sell it on for £20 plus carriage are long gone however!
Someone was asking about early kits from the 70s; well the pioneer was John Day who started in 1971 and continued until about 1980. Believe it or not you can still pick them up although most people ask silly prices, which means they're not really worth it when you consider the general lack of quality/detail. (Although fitting a set of photo etched wire wheels works wonders where applicable.) My own collection contains 14 JD's, although only one now remains unbuilt, a 1954 Cooper-Norton F3.
Edited by Stealthracer on Thursday 19th October 21:05
https://www.autojauneparis.com/fr/fabricants.php?i...
I understand John Day also marketed a few kits under the 'V de C' / 'V of C' banner.
As you noted, there's no value in paying a premium for such kits as, by today's standards, they're rather crude (but endlessly charming, in my humble opinion).
Sadly (but understandably, given the advantages afforded by the accuracy and economies associated with resin model production), the white metal car model / kit industry appears to be dying a slow death - which, for me at least, is a source of sorrow (I love this medium - its very artisanal).
I have dozens of photos of kits I have built, but most are on prints that have not been scanned yet,
This Ferrari 125 is a from John Day kit - note the photo etched wires. Also, the use of modern paints, adhesives and techniques can make them look better than they would have done in the old days!
Resin kits do offer a higher level of detail though. I sold this Lightweight E Type I built from a Provence Moulage kit in 1990, and in 2015 it popped up on eBay! I could tell it was mine as the label was still on the base, although had it been removed I'd still have known, as I mark all my models in a small and secret way.)
Finally another resin Jag, apologies for the quality as these are from scanned prints
.
This Ferrari 125 is a from John Day kit - note the photo etched wires. Also, the use of modern paints, adhesives and techniques can make them look better than they would have done in the old days!
Resin kits do offer a higher level of detail though. I sold this Lightweight E Type I built from a Provence Moulage kit in 1990, and in 2015 it popped up on eBay! I could tell it was mine as the label was still on the base, although had it been removed I'd still have known, as I mark all my models in a small and secret way.)
Finally another resin Jag, apologies for the quality as these are from scanned prints
.
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