How have R/C cars changed since 1990?
Discussion
As an avid, at the time, R/C enthusiast all through the 80s I went from a Tamiya Holiday buggy to racing a Schumacher Cat XL across the home counties.
I often look back with fond memories to those days but if I look at local car R/C clubs the cars look quite different. How have they changed?
I often look back with fond memories to those days but if I look at local car R/C clubs the cars look quite different. How have they changed?
The introduction of electronic speed controllers (which were already a thing back then - remember the MOSFET stuff), brushless motors, and LiPo batteries.
Those 3 things, in conjunction, have been an absolute game changer IMO. That is probably the most significant thing. Incomparable to brushed systems and NiCad / NiMh batteries. I just saw a couple of days ago that some bloke in the US cracked 208mph!!!
Here we go, found the link:
Radios have moved on to 2.4GHz, so no more crystal shenanigans, and you can use the same radio across all your models if you want (with ease). And there are some pretty sweet radios that let you configure all sorts of stuff on the fly, like setting exponential curves and limits for throttle / steering etc. I've got a FlySky NB4 which is awesome.
Other than that, not really sure. I guess there is a wider range of models these days, across all price points and use cases. But the cars themselves? Still the same basic set up. Motor, gearing, diffs, drive shafts, suspension arms, shocks, steering.
I guess the materials have moved on a fair bit. Modern composites are pretty durable compared to what felt like really fragile stuff back in the day!
Those 3 things, in conjunction, have been an absolute game changer IMO. That is probably the most significant thing. Incomparable to brushed systems and NiCad / NiMh batteries. I just saw a couple of days ago that some bloke in the US cracked 208mph!!!
Here we go, found the link:
Radios have moved on to 2.4GHz, so no more crystal shenanigans, and you can use the same radio across all your models if you want (with ease). And there are some pretty sweet radios that let you configure all sorts of stuff on the fly, like setting exponential curves and limits for throttle / steering etc. I've got a FlySky NB4 which is awesome.
Other than that, not really sure. I guess there is a wider range of models these days, across all price points and use cases. But the cars themselves? Still the same basic set up. Motor, gearing, diffs, drive shafts, suspension arms, shocks, steering.
I guess the materials have moved on a fair bit. Modern composites are pretty durable compared to what felt like really fragile stuff back in the day!
Edited by ApriliaTuonoVeeFour on Wednesday 11th January 11:29
I was into RC in the mid to late 80s, also with a Cat XL as my last competitive car. I got back into it in lockdown, building a re-release of the Cat XLS along with a few Tamiyas and an Ultima with my son, and racing the Cat at a few vintage buggy races. Then I got my boy into racing modern 1/10 buggies occasionally at our local club, so we have a handful of modern Associateds now too.
As mentioned, the introduction of reliable brushless motors and LiPo batteries is the biggest game changer I've seen. Yes, things like speed controllers and radios are way more customisable than before, but back in the 80s there was a huge gulf in car performance driven by people who could afford precisely matched sets of NiCd batteries that were over-charged to within a whisker of their life, and only used for a couple of meetings; using tools like commutator lathes and re-magnetisers to keep your modified brushed motors in top spec; etc etc. Now anyone can buy cars and electronics that are absolutely on a par with the top racers, and will easily run longer at top performance than a 5 minute race - that wasn't true when your expensive matched Sanyo SCRs would only last 4 minutes unless you were careful how you drove!
The cars are different but not that different. Still mid-motored like the Cat, but 4wd seems like a weird minority class now; most offroad 1/10 people in the UK race 2wd modified buggies, with almost no limits on motors or electronics. Dampers are larger and much smoother than back in the day. Differentials are generally geared, as we run on high grip carpet or astroturf rather than grass. Chassis are nice CNC'd bits of alloy rather than crudely cut carbon or GRP sheets. Wheels are bigger and tyres much more consistent, with different compounds for wet or dry running, but much less witchcraft trying to make them sticky than I remember. Basically everything seems better engineered and refined, and much more accessible, so the real skill difference is between the drivers, and who understands how to set up their car to suit their driving and the conditions. It feels like a much more level playing field, and frankly it's far more affordable than it was if prices had kept up with inflation since the 80s!
As mentioned, the introduction of reliable brushless motors and LiPo batteries is the biggest game changer I've seen. Yes, things like speed controllers and radios are way more customisable than before, but back in the 80s there was a huge gulf in car performance driven by people who could afford precisely matched sets of NiCd batteries that were over-charged to within a whisker of their life, and only used for a couple of meetings; using tools like commutator lathes and re-magnetisers to keep your modified brushed motors in top spec; etc etc. Now anyone can buy cars and electronics that are absolutely on a par with the top racers, and will easily run longer at top performance than a 5 minute race - that wasn't true when your expensive matched Sanyo SCRs would only last 4 minutes unless you were careful how you drove!
The cars are different but not that different. Still mid-motored like the Cat, but 4wd seems like a weird minority class now; most offroad 1/10 people in the UK race 2wd modified buggies, with almost no limits on motors or electronics. Dampers are larger and much smoother than back in the day. Differentials are generally geared, as we run on high grip carpet or astroturf rather than grass. Chassis are nice CNC'd bits of alloy rather than crudely cut carbon or GRP sheets. Wheels are bigger and tyres much more consistent, with different compounds for wet or dry running, but much less witchcraft trying to make them sticky than I remember. Basically everything seems better engineered and refined, and much more accessible, so the real skill difference is between the drivers, and who understands how to set up their car to suit their driving and the conditions. It feels like a much more level playing field, and frankly it's far more affordable than it was if prices had kept up with inflation since the 80s!
Brushless and Lipo is an absolute gamechanger. My son (currently 1) will never believe that I charged battery packs for 15hrs at a time for 5min of run time. Recall that "fast charging" was allegedly bad for them. I couldn't avoid the expensive Novac(?) ESCs (let alone saddle packs) so my Schumacher Pro Cat had an ESC about the size of a house brick that was made somewhere in the North of England and wrapped in heatsink. Can't remember who made those? I did save up extra to have a reverse relay on it.
I'm impatiently waiting for him to master walking and talking so he can demonstrate my electric TRF801XT is too much to handle and we can get some other kits...
I'm impatiently waiting for him to master walking and talking so he can demonstrate my electric TRF801XT is too much to handle and we can get some other kits...
jrb43 said:
my Schumacher Pro Cat had an ESC about the size of a house brick that was made somewhere in the North of England and wrapped in heatsink. Can't remember who made those? I did save up extra to have a reverse relay on it.
Probably Demon Products - I had one of theirs, they had a lot of paper round money out of me replacing burnt out transistors and relays! I could never afford the fancy MosFET ESCs that were coming out in the late 80s.Races are still 5 minutes for 1/10 offroad, but now I can get a practice run and two races from a 5000mAh lipo pack with my sedate middle-aged driving style. Much less panic than trying to charge a 1200mAh NiCd so fast that it melted the heatshrink...
I started getting back into it a few years ago and have managed to 'collect' (amass, with the help of Oople and ebay) about 10x 1/10th 2wd buggies!
The differences in layout got really quite 'interesting' a few years back. The Schumacher KF with a forward motor and belt drive to the rear, 'laydown' gearboxes for carpet/astro, 'stand-up' gearboxes for dirt, longitudinal mid-motors (Team C TM2, Kyosho RZ6, etc.), which were really the back half of a 4wd mated to the front half of a 2wd... and rear motor cars became more and more rare.
Open gear diffs that had become ball diffs are now oil filled gear diffs (for high traction carpet/astro, at least) and you can even get an LSD (X-Ray and others).
Since LiPos are so much lighter, I guess, a carbon chassis often became an ally chassis to get the CoG down and still meet race weights and flex could be tuned for conditions.
Suspension geometry tuning became easier and more standard with inserts into wishbones, hubs and alike to change toe, squat, caster, camber, roll centre, etc, etc.
It does feel a bit like we're hitting peak buggy (in 1/10th off road at least) now. I am not seeing much change in the last few models and manufacturers often revert back to previous iterations of suspension and alike. I think 2010-2020 was arguably the most 'interesting' era we have had for diversity.
An X-Ray XB2 now looks much the same to me as a Yokomo YZ2, Associated B6, Kyosho RB7, Schumacher Laydown, etc, etc. At least Schumacher still differentiate themselves in 4wd, keeping the belt-driven axles.
Maybe the biggest changes have come in Touring Cars though! You would barely recognise one, under the shell, compared to Tamiya's earliest offerings!
The differences in layout got really quite 'interesting' a few years back. The Schumacher KF with a forward motor and belt drive to the rear, 'laydown' gearboxes for carpet/astro, 'stand-up' gearboxes for dirt, longitudinal mid-motors (Team C TM2, Kyosho RZ6, etc.), which were really the back half of a 4wd mated to the front half of a 2wd... and rear motor cars became more and more rare.
Open gear diffs that had become ball diffs are now oil filled gear diffs (for high traction carpet/astro, at least) and you can even get an LSD (X-Ray and others).
Since LiPos are so much lighter, I guess, a carbon chassis often became an ally chassis to get the CoG down and still meet race weights and flex could be tuned for conditions.
Suspension geometry tuning became easier and more standard with inserts into wishbones, hubs and alike to change toe, squat, caster, camber, roll centre, etc, etc.
It does feel a bit like we're hitting peak buggy (in 1/10th off road at least) now. I am not seeing much change in the last few models and manufacturers often revert back to previous iterations of suspension and alike. I think 2010-2020 was arguably the most 'interesting' era we have had for diversity.
An X-Ray XB2 now looks much the same to me as a Yokomo YZ2, Associated B6, Kyosho RB7, Schumacher Laydown, etc, etc. At least Schumacher still differentiate themselves in 4wd, keeping the belt-driven axles.
Maybe the biggest changes have come in Touring Cars though! You would barely recognise one, under the shell, compared to Tamiya's earliest offerings!
Brother D said:
It might be me, but seems like a lot of cars (and models in general) all come ready-built. TBH my favorite bit was the building of them, and the more complicated the better : )
That's a good point. I seem to recall there being many more kits on the market, whereas these days it's mostly RTR. Tamiya is one of the few exceptions that still focus on kits. I spent some more time looking at these. The batteries are a BIG jump in power/endurance and smaller too.
However there seems to be huge amount more effort put into tuning the suspension and getting the right tyres and even the right wing/bodyshell now. In the Schumacher Evo (?) you can even alter the braking bias! Wheel and tyres are also much more advanced with inserts etc.
It's a bit like looking at a 1980's car and comparing it today's equivalent.
However there seems to be huge amount more effort put into tuning the suspension and getting the right tyres and even the right wing/bodyshell now. In the Schumacher Evo (?) you can even alter the braking bias! Wheel and tyres are also much more advanced with inserts etc.
It's a bit like looking at a 1980's car and comparing it today's equivalent.
I've got a slightly different take on it.
I think in many ways, things haven't changed at all.
Most of the Tamiya kits on sale are the same ones as the 80s/90s, some don't even support LiPo batteries.
Batteries are the game changer. LiPo has so much more power and runtime. Brushless I'd say less so, people get all excited over brushless. But a good brushed setup can still work very well and plenty of models still using brushed motors. Many of the cheap brushless ones are quite nasty infact and not really very good.
As for the vehicles. Well Ready to Run (RTR) is much bigger than it ever was and lots of cheaper and unknown brands from China and the like (spares sometimes an issue). But most racing vehicles are still kits.
Standard 2wd buggies are a lot less popular these days. In fact nearly all the RTR are big wheeled and often 4wd.
Racing in the UK seems to have changed. I loved off road racing, especially Stadium Trucks. But racing these days seems to be all on carpet or astro turf. Nobody really wants to off road it seems.
The change in racing vehicles is mid mounted motors for more grippy surfaces. Yes they are uber adjustable, but some 80s/90s kits were too. And I suspect 90% of people driving these have no clue how to adjust and probably couldn't tell the differences anyhow.
I've just been watching a Youtube series of some people in the USA. They have very expensive 2wd racing buggies. And decided to buy a basic brushed Traxxas Bandit to see how well it would go. They have all been amazed that with just changing the tyres they have competitive lap times to the uber expensive modern race buggies.
If you want to race in the UK. You need to find somewhere and see what vehicle classes they run. It seems an oddball mismash and some clubs run very obscure classes. So you essentially need to buy a specific model in order to compete. Which is a shame. I've been wanting to get back into racing for years, but every time I look I think it looks like a waste as you need to drop £500 on a model you probably don't even want.
The biggest difference I've seen aside from the above is the idea of crawlers and trail vehicles. Crawlers went very big for a while and still is in the US. A completely different discipline.
If you want to just have an RC for bashing, then loads of choice these days. Many are high speed out of the box or you can still enjoy a build if you want.
I think in many ways, things haven't changed at all.
Most of the Tamiya kits on sale are the same ones as the 80s/90s, some don't even support LiPo batteries.
Batteries are the game changer. LiPo has so much more power and runtime. Brushless I'd say less so, people get all excited over brushless. But a good brushed setup can still work very well and plenty of models still using brushed motors. Many of the cheap brushless ones are quite nasty infact and not really very good.
As for the vehicles. Well Ready to Run (RTR) is much bigger than it ever was and lots of cheaper and unknown brands from China and the like (spares sometimes an issue). But most racing vehicles are still kits.
Standard 2wd buggies are a lot less popular these days. In fact nearly all the RTR are big wheeled and often 4wd.
Racing in the UK seems to have changed. I loved off road racing, especially Stadium Trucks. But racing these days seems to be all on carpet or astro turf. Nobody really wants to off road it seems.
The change in racing vehicles is mid mounted motors for more grippy surfaces. Yes they are uber adjustable, but some 80s/90s kits were too. And I suspect 90% of people driving these have no clue how to adjust and probably couldn't tell the differences anyhow.
I've just been watching a Youtube series of some people in the USA. They have very expensive 2wd racing buggies. And decided to buy a basic brushed Traxxas Bandit to see how well it would go. They have all been amazed that with just changing the tyres they have competitive lap times to the uber expensive modern race buggies.
If you want to race in the UK. You need to find somewhere and see what vehicle classes they run. It seems an oddball mismash and some clubs run very obscure classes. So you essentially need to buy a specific model in order to compete. Which is a shame. I've been wanting to get back into racing for years, but every time I look I think it looks like a waste as you need to drop £500 on a model you probably don't even want.
The biggest difference I've seen aside from the above is the idea of crawlers and trail vehicles. Crawlers went very big for a while and still is in the US. A completely different discipline.
If you want to just have an RC for bashing, then loads of choice these days. Many are high speed out of the box or you can still enjoy a build if you want.
Tamiya and to a lesser extent Kyosho now deal mainly in nostalgia - people like me who lusted after their models in the Beatie’s window and can now afford them.
I have never raced so have no opinion on that.
Off road has basically 3 areas, with large overlaps in between - Rock Crawling, Scale and trail riding, the latter being basically taking your RC for a walk/hike
There is also a large overlap with bashing.
A truck like the TRX-4 has the high ground clearance, lockable diffs & low gear to be a half decent rock crawler, although not as good as the more dedicated crawlers, has a semi scale body and with switchable diff locks and 2 gear ratios is built for trail riding.
LIPOS here are normally chosen for their run time, a single charge can last 1/2 an hour or more, so no more need for a pocket full of batteries, rather than lightness or power.
I have never raced so have no opinion on that.
Off road has basically 3 areas, with large overlaps in between - Rock Crawling, Scale and trail riding, the latter being basically taking your RC for a walk/hike
There is also a large overlap with bashing.A truck like the TRX-4 has the high ground clearance, lockable diffs & low gear to be a half decent rock crawler, although not as good as the more dedicated crawlers, has a semi scale body and with switchable diff locks and 2 gear ratios is built for trail riding.
LIPOS here are normally chosen for their run time, a single charge can last 1/2 an hour or more, so no more need for a pocket full of batteries, rather than lightness or power.
MBBlat said:
LIPOS here are normally chosen for their run time, a single charge can last 1/2 an hour or more, so no more need for a pocket full of batteries, rather than lightness or power.
Do you mean for trail / crawl activities or in general? If the latter, I would disagree. LiPos can output significantly greater wattage vs. a NiCad or NiMh.
Fascinating thread…
I raced in the late 80s and early 90s too up at Scarborough, and was only looking yesterday in AC Models in Eastleigh at all the RC stuff. I was trying to spot any of the old names I used to race or race against. I started with a Schumacher Cougar then moved to an Associated RC-10, still have both in the garage, but remember Tamiya were for kids and proper races had the Schumacher, Associated, Lossi etc (and the occasional Mardave).
Trying to setup the gear ratios for fastest speed and not running out of battery in 5 minutes was the fun challenge.
So, all the stuff on the shelves now, what are the equivalent ranking of brands compared to the Schumacher, Associated etc stuff from back then?
I raced in the late 80s and early 90s too up at Scarborough, and was only looking yesterday in AC Models in Eastleigh at all the RC stuff. I was trying to spot any of the old names I used to race or race against. I started with a Schumacher Cougar then moved to an Associated RC-10, still have both in the garage, but remember Tamiya were for kids and proper races had the Schumacher, Associated, Lossi etc (and the occasional Mardave).
Trying to setup the gear ratios for fastest speed and not running out of battery in 5 minutes was the fun challenge.
So, all the stuff on the shelves now, what are the equivalent ranking of brands compared to the Schumacher, Associated etc stuff from back then?
RacingPete said:
Fascinating thread…
I raced in the late 80s and early 90s too up at Scarborough, and was only looking yesterday in AC Models in Eastleigh at all the RC stuff. I was trying to spot any of the old names I used to race or race against. I started with a Schumacher Cougar then moved to an Associated RC-10, still have both in the garage, but remember Tamiya were for kids and proper races had the Schumacher, Associated, Lossi etc (and the occasional Mardave).
Trying to setup the gear ratios for fastest speed and not running out of battery in 5 minutes was the fun challenge.
So, all the stuff on the shelves now, what are the equivalent ranking of brands compared to the Schumacher, Associated etc stuff from back then?
Most of the racing brands are still there. Schumacher make some very good race cars. As do Assocaited and Losi, although Losi is now Team Losi Racing for their racing stuff and they are owned by Horizon Hobby.I raced in the late 80s and early 90s too up at Scarborough, and was only looking yesterday in AC Models in Eastleigh at all the RC stuff. I was trying to spot any of the old names I used to race or race against. I started with a Schumacher Cougar then moved to an Associated RC-10, still have both in the garage, but remember Tamiya were for kids and proper races had the Schumacher, Associated, Lossi etc (and the occasional Mardave).
Trying to setup the gear ratios for fastest speed and not running out of battery in 5 minutes was the fun challenge.
So, all the stuff on the shelves now, what are the equivalent ranking of brands compared to the Schumacher, Associated etc stuff from back then?
Mardave still exist, but less likely to see them on the shelf. They do GT12 cars which some clubs run dedicated races for.
Tamiya and Kyosho are both still big brands and of course Traxxas. Although less in the racing scene these days more bashing. Arrma where a new comer now also owned by Horizon Hobby and pitched to challenge the likes of Traxxas.
Then there are lots of cheaper Chinese brands. Maverick, FTX to name a couple. Some good models and you'll often see the same model sold under multiple names. Spares are ok for some and quality can be ok too. But do research. Lots and lots of other Chinese brands though, they change frequently, so parts can be difficult to source as they may be here one month and gone the next.
Have a browse, lots of very awesome RC's:
https://www.modelsport.co.uk/electric/models
spuds1 said:
MBBlat said:
LIPOS here are normally chosen for their run time, a single charge can last 1/2 an hour or more, so no more need for a pocket full of batteries, rather than lightness or power.
Do you mean for trail / crawl activities or in general? If the latter, I would disagree. LiPos can output significantly greater wattage vs. a NiCad or NiMh.
To be clear I’m talking about the non racing activities, trail, crawl and bashing where increased run time is a higher importance than peak speed.
MBBlat said:
To be clear I’m talking about the non racing activities, trail, crawl and bashing where increased run time is a higher importance than peak speed.
LiPo's offer higher more stable voltages and higher capacities, they also tend to physically weigh less than NiMh also. Making them the best choice for most applications. The only risks are a more volatile battery chemistry that needs a little more care and thought to look after.
The biggest change for me are the clubs/tracks themselves. Gone are the tiny local clubs in pub car parks or school playgrounds, now you have to travel a little bit (fine as an adult in a car, not so if you wanted to carry everything on your pushbike like many of us did BITD) as there are fewer clubs, but they do tend to be like the larger & more competitive clubs of old.
So you could say that racing is perhaps a little harder to get into at the very bottom end, but there is plenty of support at the clubs that do exist.
Indoor racing perhaps hasn't changed so much. Tracks still tend to be either carpet or the hard floor surface with man-made obstacles.
Which brings me to jumps. Today, you will see cars jumping 6ft in the air and landing 20ft down the track, lap after lap. That is largely as a result of the lighter and more powerful batteries many people have already mentioned.
Imagine trying to do that with a Tamiya Madcap? It'd be going home in a bin bag!
So you could say that racing is perhaps a little harder to get into at the very bottom end, but there is plenty of support at the clubs that do exist.
Indoor racing perhaps hasn't changed so much. Tracks still tend to be either carpet or the hard floor surface with man-made obstacles.
Which brings me to jumps. Today, you will see cars jumping 6ft in the air and landing 20ft down the track, lap after lap. That is largely as a result of the lighter and more powerful batteries many people have already mentioned.
Imagine trying to do that with a Tamiya Madcap? It'd be going home in a bin bag!
groomi said:
Imagine trying to do that with a Tamiya Madcap? It'd be going home in a bin bag!
It would probably snap the back of the chassis off from the tub, the part that the gearbox mounts to. I might have managed to do this once!I’ve recently got a brushless FTX vantage for my sons, it fast and survives quite a bit a punishment without breaking and being driven in to a pond.
I’ve got a TTech predator with a brushless motor form about 15 years ago, I thought that was fast but this FTX buggy is a lot faster.
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