Model Building Help Required
Discussion
Evening All,
I recently stumbled across a model making video on YouTube by Plasmo, recreating a Ferrari P4 race car and since then I have been obsessed with watching the videos. When I use to make models as a kid I remember them being rubbish! The finish was naff, the realism was naff and my general efforts were naff. After watching the videos and seeing what people do I just want to give it ago and see if I can do it. I don't want it to look naff again and I understand it will take time to build up experience, at the same time from watching the videos I can gather there is a next level of tools and painting which I wasn't using or doing first time which is bringing this next level of finish to the table. I would like to understand how hard I need to go to get started and start to generate photo realism.
Do I need the airbrush kit?
Is there certain tools I should buy the best of now?
What glues am I meant to be using?
Why do people use the Tamiya sandpaper blocks over professional sandpaper?
One of the big things which I am struggling with is painting. In the videos I see people are using tamiya paints, Valejo, zero and so forth, but with cars they have paint codes and I can have a colour matched rattle can mixed up in 30mins. Why don't people do that?
Why is Varnish used over Lacquer?
I am quite lucky that my life puts me next to these cars so I have a fantastic grasps of the realism, however this also means if I can't match it then I will lose my passion. So I want to understand before I spend out how far down the rabbit hole do I need to go?
I recently stumbled across a model making video on YouTube by Plasmo, recreating a Ferrari P4 race car and since then I have been obsessed with watching the videos. When I use to make models as a kid I remember them being rubbish! The finish was naff, the realism was naff and my general efforts were naff. After watching the videos and seeing what people do I just want to give it ago and see if I can do it. I don't want it to look naff again and I understand it will take time to build up experience, at the same time from watching the videos I can gather there is a next level of tools and painting which I wasn't using or doing first time which is bringing this next level of finish to the table. I would like to understand how hard I need to go to get started and start to generate photo realism.
Do I need the airbrush kit?
Is there certain tools I should buy the best of now?
What glues am I meant to be using?
Why do people use the Tamiya sandpaper blocks over professional sandpaper?
One of the big things which I am struggling with is painting. In the videos I see people are using tamiya paints, Valejo, zero and so forth, but with cars they have paint codes and I can have a colour matched rattle can mixed up in 30mins. Why don't people do that?
Why is Varnish used over Lacquer?
I am quite lucky that my life puts me next to these cars so I have a fantastic grasps of the realism, however this also means if I can't match it then I will lose my passion. So I want to understand before I spend out how far down the rabbit hole do I need to go?
Hi there _ think a lot of us are 'returning' to model making after decades, whilst some have never stopped.
I'll give you MY thoughts - expect lots of different opinions on some things - can only go on my experience....
Plasmo vids are very good - watch some of his earlier stuff on techniques - youtube is your friend - there is SO much out there..
Also some stunning stuff on here - looks for dr_gn, he does amazing stuff with a wide variety of subject matter and materials....
Ok -
Do I need the airbrush kit?
Depends. (great start!) - if you can get one, then yes - but then again it depends what you are painting - for a finish like the P4 - yes. BUT you mention you can make up cans, so..... - for an amazing finish I'd argue you DO need an airbrush, for the bodywork - but plenty of other parts can be hand painted, and if one was doing military hardware (tanks etc) then I'd argue an airbrush is less vital....I got one when I 'returned' to model making, and it is fantastic - and of course nowadays, you have so much good value choice....
Is there certain tools I should buy the best of now?
Like any craft/manufacturing - tools are important. But I'd start off with a good knife (I use scalpel and lots of new blades) - a good pair of 'nippers' - there are some amazing ones that seem expensive, but are great ('godshand') - but again, a £4 pair will be fine - just don't snip so close etc etc
Good tweezer set is usefull. Cocktail sticks, pins (applying glue) - decent paint brushes, needle files, sanding blocks....usual stuff - then the more expensive stuff like airbrush, compressor etc. Aldi/Lidl often do a set of cutting mats for a great price. You'll build up a selection of tools as you go - you don't need crazy unless you want to - I have started using 3D printing, for example - mini lathes etc - but none of that is required to get the results!
What glues am I meant to be using?
I use superglue a lot (with or without accelerator) and I use the blue plastic pots of revell plastic glue that have the long needle...I'll use 2 part epoxy sometimes (arildite) if I need structural strength - but not usually needed on plastic kits. Wood glue/can't remember the name white craft glue for clear screens - as it dries clear - superglue will mark clear plastic and fog it.
Why do people use the Tamiya sandpaper blocks over professional sandpaper?
Access? No real reason I am sure - I use nail files a lot (the board ones, different each side) but I have a drawer full of all sorts - wet n'dry, strips, foam backed etc etc
One of the big things which I am struggling with is painting. In the videos I see people are using tamiya paints, Valejo, zero and so forth, but with cars they have paint codes and I can have a colour matched rattle can mixed up in 30mins. Why don't people do that?
Again - access/cost! If you can get a specific paint made up quickly and easily - the a)give us your number
- and b) cool! Easy way to get spray - aerosols can be a bit 'heavy' if spraying small stuff, but if you are 'in the trade' then you'd be fine. I sometimes use Halfords primer because easy. I stick to Tamiya primer usually because I know it and use tamiya product. It will come down to personal choice - I tend to use 90% tamiya acrylics, because I have never had any issues - I use Alclad for metallics sometimes - no rules - although I did get a set of Valejo paints and did not get on with them in the airbrush - good for figures apparently....I have also used Zero paints, which are probably the closest to automotive paint in terms of requiring lacquer etc - I loved the way they sprayed when I have used them. Smelly/dodgy lacquer. I'd get a mini spray booth if you airbrush, though you may have it already...
Why is Varnish used over Lacquer?
Not sure what you mean - I use lacquer and people then sometimes wax or polish that - but not sure about varnish...
I am quite lucky that my life puts me next to these cars so I have a fantastic grasps of the realism, however this also means if I can't match it then I will lose my passion. So I want to understand before I spend out how far down the rabbit hole do I need to go?
As far as you want - start realistic - having the 'real' thing in front of you helps a great deal for extra detail etc for sure.
Don't rush, and DO NOT be intimidated by anything you see on the internet - learn from it but don't be put off! You'll find your own style, and what you enjoy doing....there is almost a comedy progression that 'every' model maker goes through - something like.... make the kit - amazing. discover air brushing - amazing - dip in to weathering having been scared by it - amazing.....it is a series of steps. Often something is easier than it looks when you try it....(like many things in life!)
Set your standards as high or as low as you like - it is YOUR hobby/model/target etc....
I'm inspired by all the skills I see here and elsewhere....sounds like you have been as well. Just go for it - jump in -don't worry about getting 'good enough' - I suspect you will reach your goal! Your tool kit will grow and evolve to what you need for your stuff.
....and, there are no rules!! Learn from others, but make up your own stuff and style as well.
I'll give you MY thoughts - expect lots of different opinions on some things - can only go on my experience....
Plasmo vids are very good - watch some of his earlier stuff on techniques - youtube is your friend - there is SO much out there..
Also some stunning stuff on here - looks for dr_gn, he does amazing stuff with a wide variety of subject matter and materials....
Ok -
Do I need the airbrush kit?
Depends. (great start!) - if you can get one, then yes - but then again it depends what you are painting - for a finish like the P4 - yes. BUT you mention you can make up cans, so..... - for an amazing finish I'd argue you DO need an airbrush, for the bodywork - but plenty of other parts can be hand painted, and if one was doing military hardware (tanks etc) then I'd argue an airbrush is less vital....I got one when I 'returned' to model making, and it is fantastic - and of course nowadays, you have so much good value choice....
Is there certain tools I should buy the best of now?
Like any craft/manufacturing - tools are important. But I'd start off with a good knife (I use scalpel and lots of new blades) - a good pair of 'nippers' - there are some amazing ones that seem expensive, but are great ('godshand') - but again, a £4 pair will be fine - just don't snip so close etc etc
Good tweezer set is usefull. Cocktail sticks, pins (applying glue) - decent paint brushes, needle files, sanding blocks....usual stuff - then the more expensive stuff like airbrush, compressor etc. Aldi/Lidl often do a set of cutting mats for a great price. You'll build up a selection of tools as you go - you don't need crazy unless you want to - I have started using 3D printing, for example - mini lathes etc - but none of that is required to get the results!
What glues am I meant to be using?
I use superglue a lot (with or without accelerator) and I use the blue plastic pots of revell plastic glue that have the long needle...I'll use 2 part epoxy sometimes (arildite) if I need structural strength - but not usually needed on plastic kits. Wood glue/can't remember the name white craft glue for clear screens - as it dries clear - superglue will mark clear plastic and fog it.
Why do people use the Tamiya sandpaper blocks over professional sandpaper?
Access? No real reason I am sure - I use nail files a lot (the board ones, different each side) but I have a drawer full of all sorts - wet n'dry, strips, foam backed etc etc
One of the big things which I am struggling with is painting. In the videos I see people are using tamiya paints, Valejo, zero and so forth, but with cars they have paint codes and I can have a colour matched rattle can mixed up in 30mins. Why don't people do that?
Again - access/cost! If you can get a specific paint made up quickly and easily - the a)give us your number
- and b) cool! Easy way to get spray - aerosols can be a bit 'heavy' if spraying small stuff, but if you are 'in the trade' then you'd be fine. I sometimes use Halfords primer because easy. I stick to Tamiya primer usually because I know it and use tamiya product. It will come down to personal choice - I tend to use 90% tamiya acrylics, because I have never had any issues - I use Alclad for metallics sometimes - no rules - although I did get a set of Valejo paints and did not get on with them in the airbrush - good for figures apparently....I have also used Zero paints, which are probably the closest to automotive paint in terms of requiring lacquer etc - I loved the way they sprayed when I have used them. Smelly/dodgy lacquer. I'd get a mini spray booth if you airbrush, though you may have it already...Why is Varnish used over Lacquer?
Not sure what you mean - I use lacquer and people then sometimes wax or polish that - but not sure about varnish...
I am quite lucky that my life puts me next to these cars so I have a fantastic grasps of the realism, however this also means if I can't match it then I will lose my passion. So I want to understand before I spend out how far down the rabbit hole do I need to go?
As far as you want - start realistic - having the 'real' thing in front of you helps a great deal for extra detail etc for sure.
Don't rush, and DO NOT be intimidated by anything you see on the internet - learn from it but don't be put off! You'll find your own style, and what you enjoy doing....there is almost a comedy progression that 'every' model maker goes through - something like.... make the kit - amazing. discover air brushing - amazing - dip in to weathering having been scared by it - amazing.....it is a series of steps. Often something is easier than it looks when you try it....(like many things in life!)
Set your standards as high or as low as you like - it is YOUR hobby/model/target etc....
I'm inspired by all the skills I see here and elsewhere....sounds like you have been as well. Just go for it - jump in -don't worry about getting 'good enough' - I suspect you will reach your goal! Your tool kit will grow and evolve to what you need for your stuff.
....and, there are no rules!! Learn from others, but make up your own stuff and style as well.
Can of worms.....open.
First of all forget everything you know from real cars. This is model making applied to cars and the techniques and skill are built up over years.
For glue you want Tamiya Extra Thin for the plastic and some Super Glue for some other bits and bobs.
You need sidecutters and some sanding sticks, some foam backed as well.
Then you just need to build and build and build until you get better.
This really isnt a hobby where you can buy the best tools and get pro results.
Yes you will need an airbrush for best results. Remember though buying a £200 airbrush will not help you skip the learning stages of cleaning and thinning.
As for videos Plasmo is one of the best for videos, especially weathering.
If you just want to create a similar lifelike detailed model by buying all the right stuff, you will be very disappointed. Some people model all their lives and cant produce something like that.
One of the only people I have seen take the hobby up and within a year produce really impressive stuff is Rob McDonald on here. I dont know what his background is but he clearly has a natural talent for picking it up.
This is my list of go to YouTube channels to subscribe to. Watching these videos will teach you way more than anyone can on Facebook or forums, even books.
Flory Models
Andy's Hobby Headquarters
Night Shift
Panzermeister36
AK Interactive
Ammo by MIG
Plasmo
Sergio Solo
Scalemodelmedic
Turbine models
Will Pattison
Oh and work out fairly early if you actually enjoy modelling itself, otherwise you will just be wasting your money, as it does require a certain frame of mind.
First of all forget everything you know from real cars. This is model making applied to cars and the techniques and skill are built up over years.
For glue you want Tamiya Extra Thin for the plastic and some Super Glue for some other bits and bobs.
You need sidecutters and some sanding sticks, some foam backed as well.
Then you just need to build and build and build until you get better.
This really isnt a hobby where you can buy the best tools and get pro results.
Yes you will need an airbrush for best results. Remember though buying a £200 airbrush will not help you skip the learning stages of cleaning and thinning.
As for videos Plasmo is one of the best for videos, especially weathering.
If you just want to create a similar lifelike detailed model by buying all the right stuff, you will be very disappointed. Some people model all their lives and cant produce something like that.
One of the only people I have seen take the hobby up and within a year produce really impressive stuff is Rob McDonald on here. I dont know what his background is but he clearly has a natural talent for picking it up.
This is my list of go to YouTube channels to subscribe to. Watching these videos will teach you way more than anyone can on Facebook or forums, even books.
Flory Models
Andy's Hobby Headquarters
Night Shift
Panzermeister36
AK Interactive
Ammo by MIG
Plasmo
Sergio Solo
Scalemodelmedic
Turbine models
Will Pattison
Oh and work out fairly early if you actually enjoy modelling itself, otherwise you will just be wasting your money, as it does require a certain frame of mind.
Edited by The_Jackal on Tuesday 26th November 17:40
An airbrush is essential if you want to do shading. You have a lot of control of the paint thickness and so colour density and don’t create the hard lines you get with a brush. It depends on the models you want to make but I spray all my military stuff black all over and then add the greys and sand colours to create the depth and shadow. Experiment with a cheap kit as a paint mule. You will need to learn to mix paints to spray well.
Get a decent scalpel and a selection of blade shapes and edge cutter. Sanding pads are good but wet & dry can work as well in most cases. eBay can get some decent enough to play with.
You can do most things with poly cement from revel. Liquid poly from Tamiya is also good and has a brush applicator in the lid. Liquid runs along joint lines so male seams easier but can run to finger and cause issues.
Overall, if the kit looks good to you then it is right. If you don’t get it right then try again.
Get a decent scalpel and a selection of blade shapes and edge cutter. Sanding pads are good but wet & dry can work as well in most cases. eBay can get some decent enough to play with.
You can do most things with poly cement from revel. Liquid poly from Tamiya is also good and has a brush applicator in the lid. Liquid runs along joint lines so male seams easier but can run to finger and cause issues.
Overall, if the kit looks good to you then it is right. If you don’t get it right then try again.
I use sanding sticks, basically foam core with abrasive down each side, it deforms so is better at sanding curved surfaces than wet and dry on a stick. I tried cheap Ebay ones, which were pretty horrible and shed the abrasive when wet, so I got a selection pack from Flory models. Massively better and easier to use.
Be aware that superglue / cyanoacrylate can out-gas over time and 'fog' transparent surfaces such as windows.
Don't expect to get to expert level overnight. The enjoyment from most hobbies comes from improving your skills and abilities over time - modelling is no different.
Be aware that superglue / cyanoacrylate can out-gas over time and 'fog' transparent surfaces such as windows.
Don't expect to get to expert level overnight. The enjoyment from most hobbies comes from improving your skills and abilities over time - modelling is no different.
A lot of models are spoiled - to my eye - by the model maker seeking realism. For me there should be a hint of this and a suggestion of that rather than a slavish attention to detail. For example, I've seen model cars painted with the same metallic paint as the actual car where the metal particles would, in scale, be an inch or more across. If the model had been painted the same colour without being metallic the result would have been better; observers wouldn't have spent their time wondering what was wrong with it. Similarly, the detail. Too many twiddly bits draws the attention away the overall effect. Model maker as impressionist.
I've built car models brush painting the details and using rattle cans for the external finish, works well. You can get a great finish especially if you sand the paint down with micromesh or very fine wet+dry then polish out using cutting compound and a coat of wax. There is a trend among car modellers to give the finish umpteen coats of clear lacquer which makes the model look like it's been dipped in resin, not a fan. Tamiya spray paints go on really well but I've used Halfords sprays as well and they work fine. Use a decent plastic primer, if you need to do any masking the paint can lift when removing the tape, plastic primer helps with this.
Have to say though that modern paints just don't seem to brush paint as well as they used to- hence why airbrushing has become much more popular- they're probably less likely to give you cancer or breathing problems though.
I have seen people using 2k clear lacquer for models (ZERO paints etc.), IMO this stuff has no place in the hobby, it needs to be used with air fed breathing equipment and proper extraction. I've used UPOL smart clear 1k (obviously still needs a mask etc. but its isocyanate free) and it gives a great finish and holds the gloss well.
+1 for Flory models sanding sticks, they work really well. Also love Tamiya extra thin poly cement.
Have to say though that modern paints just don't seem to brush paint as well as they used to- hence why airbrushing has become much more popular- they're probably less likely to give you cancer or breathing problems though.
I have seen people using 2k clear lacquer for models (ZERO paints etc.), IMO this stuff has no place in the hobby, it needs to be used with air fed breathing equipment and proper extraction. I've used UPOL smart clear 1k (obviously still needs a mask etc. but its isocyanate free) and it gives a great finish and holds the gloss well.
+1 for Flory models sanding sticks, they work really well. Also love Tamiya extra thin poly cement.
Edited by lufbramatt on Wednesday 27th November 09:43
For me, the most difficult modelling tools to find these days are decent sanding sticks. The ones that Little Cars used to sell are no longer available, and many of the other brands seem to have a resin like coating over the abrasive which makes them slip over the plastic rather than cut it. I did find some really excellent ones at the Telford show, but I can't remember the name (which isn't really helpful I know). They are dark grey or white, profiled with a wide end and a thin end, and are double sided with different mesh sizes.
Car bodies can be a pain in the arse - by coincidence I saw the plasmo video on the Ferrari yesterday too, and it made me want to finish my MP4/6 (almost). I know Caterhamnut likes Zero paints, and gets awesome results with them, but in the end I went to a local automotive paint manufacturer and got them to bottle the exact colours I needed. They were a lot cheaper than Zero paints, and went on beautifully with a standard airbrush with 0.5mm nozzle. I agree with Lufbramatt about 2K, but I must admit I used it as a clear coat, and it was great. Very resistant to running, and it polished up to a mirror finish with wet & dry paper, Micromensh pads and Tamiya compounds:
I won't use it again though after this build, because of the health risks.
IMO, in terms of models and materials, in general you won't go far wrong with anything Tamiya make.
Car bodies can be a pain in the arse - by coincidence I saw the plasmo video on the Ferrari yesterday too, and it made me want to finish my MP4/6 (almost). I know Caterhamnut likes Zero paints, and gets awesome results with them, but in the end I went to a local automotive paint manufacturer and got them to bottle the exact colours I needed. They were a lot cheaper than Zero paints, and went on beautifully with a standard airbrush with 0.5mm nozzle. I agree with Lufbramatt about 2K, but I must admit I used it as a clear coat, and it was great. Very resistant to running, and it polished up to a mirror finish with wet & dry paper, Micromensh pads and Tamiya compounds:
I won't use it again though after this build, because of the health risks.
IMO, in terms of models and materials, in general you won't go far wrong with anything Tamiya make.
I recently got back into modelling after a long break. Used to build super-detailed kits with lots of additional details. However I was disappointed with my first attempt, when I realised some of my skills had disappeared over the years.
So I went back and built a couple of curb-side kits, no engine detail, not too much chassis detail but good interior and body.
This gave me time to get back on course with more detailed builds, and this would be my advice, try some of the simpler kits first to improve your painting and construction skills and then move on to the more detailed kits. In this way you won't get demotivated, and just enjoy the hobby.
So I went back and built a couple of curb-side kits, no engine detail, not too much chassis detail but good interior and body.
This gave me time to get back on course with more detailed builds, and this would be my advice, try some of the simpler kits first to improve your painting and construction skills and then move on to the more detailed kits. In this way you won't get demotivated, and just enjoy the hobby.
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