OO railway basic questions...
Discussion
I'm a mid forties dad now, but used to have an OO gauge model railway as a young lad myself.
My own boy is nearly 3 and totally obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine, so when I saw some OO gauge Thomas stuff locally on FB Marketplace the other day I bought it, and he's been having loads of fun (and not watching the TV!) watching Thomas, Emily and James whizz around the basic double oval I've set up on the living room floor. I'd like to do something a bit more permanent and might set up a layout on a baseboard for him. I have some questions...
1-The stuff I've bought is all DCC controlled which is a new one on me. Seems pretty clever and I get all of the advantages, however the locos seem incredibly slow to react. The controller is a Bachmann E-Z command, and if you close the throttle the loco tends to do about half a lap of track before stopping. Why might this be?
2-Sometimes the loco won't stop at all...it just slows to a crawl but keeps moving. Any ideas?
3-At the moment his interest is in watching the trains go round and round. I'm wondering if I'm almost better off ditching the DCC thing for now, and just going for analogue? It seems you can pick some analogue locos up pretty cheaply on eBay?
4-Where is the best (cheapest) place to pick up second hand rolling stock etc? Do they still have the "swapmeets" I used to go to as a kid? Are bargains to be had? Or has eBay killed all of that?
Thanks!
My own boy is nearly 3 and totally obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine, so when I saw some OO gauge Thomas stuff locally on FB Marketplace the other day I bought it, and he's been having loads of fun (and not watching the TV!) watching Thomas, Emily and James whizz around the basic double oval I've set up on the living room floor. I'd like to do something a bit more permanent and might set up a layout on a baseboard for him. I have some questions...
1-The stuff I've bought is all DCC controlled which is a new one on me. Seems pretty clever and I get all of the advantages, however the locos seem incredibly slow to react. The controller is a Bachmann E-Z command, and if you close the throttle the loco tends to do about half a lap of track before stopping. Why might this be?
2-Sometimes the loco won't stop at all...it just slows to a crawl but keeps moving. Any ideas?
3-At the moment his interest is in watching the trains go round and round. I'm wondering if I'm almost better off ditching the DCC thing for now, and just going for analogue? It seems you can pick some analogue locos up pretty cheaply on eBay?
4-Where is the best (cheapest) place to pick up second hand rolling stock etc? Do they still have the "swapmeets" I used to go to as a kid? Are bargains to be had? Or has eBay killed all of that?
Thanks!
Welcome back to 00 gauge!
I have the same E-Z Command system:
1) Digital locomotives being slower to respond than analogue models - this is normal and nothing to worry about. If you want them to stop in the same instant fashion as analogue, just press the red emergency stop button (top left);
2) Are you sure you have turned the control knob to zero?
3) If I may say so, as your son is 3, analogue may be safer for now. Whilst the DCC controller can operate one analogue locomotive (Address #10), the locomotive's DC motor won't like the AC going through it and I would not recommend using an analogue locomotive in this way for extended periods. I would suggest that all analogue locomotives are isolated/removed from the track when not in use. The high pitched buzzing that occurs from the analogue locomotive is normal, though;
4) eBay is a good place to start - I've picked up new rolling stock fairly cheaply there too; no idea about swapmeets though
I have the same E-Z Command system:
1) Digital locomotives being slower to respond than analogue models - this is normal and nothing to worry about. If you want them to stop in the same instant fashion as analogue, just press the red emergency stop button (top left);
2) Are you sure you have turned the control knob to zero?
3) If I may say so, as your son is 3, analogue may be safer for now. Whilst the DCC controller can operate one analogue locomotive (Address #10), the locomotive's DC motor won't like the AC going through it and I would not recommend using an analogue locomotive in this way for extended periods. I would suggest that all analogue locomotives are isolated/removed from the track when not in use. The high pitched buzzing that occurs from the analogue locomotive is normal, though;
4) eBay is a good place to start - I've picked up new rolling stock fairly cheaply there too; no idea about swapmeets though
Edited by AppleJuice on Monday 8th October 22:58
Thanks for that.
When I say slow to react...I mean really slow. I drove "Emily" into the siding at a slow "scale" speed and she promptly fell right off the end of the track! It's almost as if it's on some super geek setting, where it's simulating you shutting the regulator but not applying any brakes? Is there supposed to be a brake setting somewhere?
Also, if I just buy a cheap analogue controller and analogue trains, am I right in saying that I have to use different points? The points my DCC kit came with seems to have an additional wire between the rails which I don't remember having as a kid.
Thanks again.
When I say slow to react...I mean really slow. I drove "Emily" into the siding at a slow "scale" speed and she promptly fell right off the end of the track! It's almost as if it's on some super geek setting, where it's simulating you shutting the regulator but not applying any brakes? Is there supposed to be a brake setting somewhere?
Also, if I just buy a cheap analogue controller and analogue trains, am I right in saying that I have to use different points? The points my DCC kit came with seems to have an additional wire between the rails which I don't remember having as a kid.
Thanks again.
I believe (but I have zero experience on DCC other than reading about it) the extra wire on the points is to keep the circuit live whichever direction the points are facing. On analogue points, the closed-off direction is deliberately not powered so you can send a loco into the sidings, turn the points, and send something past on the other track without it interfering. I would guess that cutting the wire to break the circuit will get around the issue.
I've been gathering track and the like from places like car boot sales, with some success. I tend to find that you do get some rolling stock there, but either most sellers know what locos are worth, or most buyers are around far earlier than I am to grab the bargains from those who don't. You do see ads for model railway gatherings, not so many as I remember a few years back, and probably few real bargains to be had there. Always worth a look to see what's around, though.
I've been gathering track and the like from places like car boot sales, with some success. I tend to find that you do get some rolling stock there, but either most sellers know what locos are worth, or most buyers are around far earlier than I am to grab the bargains from those who don't. You do see ads for model railway gatherings, not so many as I remember a few years back, and probably few real bargains to be had there. Always worth a look to see what's around, though.
It sounds like the CV that controls the deceleration rate is indeed set to ultra geeky mode. This is a variable stored on the decoder chip inside the loco. More advanced controllers can alter these values. Do you know what model controller you have or do you have a manual for it?
DCC Locos will work on a DC layout so if you wanted to ditch your DCC controller, your DCC locos will still run ok using a DC controller. I'm not sure whether or not the deceleration issue will carry over using a DC controller or not. I would suspect not but no idea to be honest.
DCC Locos will work on a DC layout so if you wanted to ditch your DCC controller, your DCC locos will still run ok using a DC controller. I'm not sure whether or not the deceleration issue will carry over using a DC controller or not. I would suspect not but no idea to be honest.
Edited by MysteryLemon on Tuesday 9th October 12:27
Hard-Drive said:
Where is the best (cheapest) place to pick up second hand rolling stock etc? Do they still have the "swapmeets" I used to go to as a kid? Are bargains to be had? Or has eBay killed all of that?
You’ll probably find a visit to the Warley Show at the NEC useful, plenty of stuff to buy, both new and used, and loads of layouts to look at. http://www.thewarleyshow.co.ukI had (have) the original DCC (Hornby Zero1), there's an inertia setting, controlled from the controller, that can be assigned to locomotives that affects rate of acceleration/deceleration. On inertia setting 4 (the slowest) train takes a loooonnnnnggggg time to come to a complete standstill Presumably the newer (and now more advanced) DCC systems do the same, but don't know how that's controlled.
As droopsnoot says, all rails on a DCC system must be live to exploit it's capabilities. However, points are still self-isolating (kill power to one rail depending which way they're switched). The wires on the points will be to bridge the isolating capability.
If you go back to analogue then you'll need to disable this, otherwise chaos will ensue on your layout.
(Hornby over came this problem for Zero1 system by providing essentially "staples" that slot snuggling between the rails and are easily removed to revert back to analogue. If something's been soldered across the rails then you'll have to "cut through" it.)
There's pros and cons to both analogue and DCC, but at this stage analogue maybe better for your son as it'll be easier for him to learn control the trains (in time).
As droopsnoot says, all rails on a DCC system must be live to exploit it's capabilities. However, points are still self-isolating (kill power to one rail depending which way they're switched). The wires on the points will be to bridge the isolating capability.
If you go back to analogue then you'll need to disable this, otherwise chaos will ensue on your layout.
(Hornby over came this problem for Zero1 system by providing essentially "staples" that slot snuggling between the rails and are easily removed to revert back to analogue. If something's been soldered across the rails then you'll have to "cut through" it.)
There's pros and cons to both analogue and DCC, but at this stage analogue maybe better for your son as it'll be easier for him to learn control the trains (in time).
Pinkie15 said:
As droopsnoot says, all rails on a DCC system must be live to exploit it's capabilities. However, points are still self-isolating (kill power to one rail depending which way they're switched). The wires on the points will be to bridge the isolating capability..
I must admit I don't understand this. How do you avoid a massive short circuit?Pinkie15 said:
Also the point blades themselves are isolated, whether analogue or DCC.
Things like turntables are where most likely to get a short, so need add some insulating tape on to the underside of the in rails and bridge power to the out rails.
How about electrofrog points? A while back I was looking at the wiring for a scissors-crossover for DCC and it was pretty complex. I'm still buying analogue stuff now but the argument for a switch to DCC is strong (my H&M controllers are ancient). Things like turntables are where most likely to get a short, so need add some insulating tape on to the underside of the in rails and bridge power to the out rails.
I recently made the switch to DCC for the new layout when I moved house.
For points you have to make sure you isolate the end of the triangle part of the points (the bit that changes polarity based on the direction) with plastic track connectors so the power doesn't keep going down the track and creating a short.
You then run a bus wire under the layout and drop wires from the track to that bus. So you can isolate every individual bit of track and power through the bus.
For points you have to make sure you isolate the end of the triangle part of the points (the bit that changes polarity based on the direction) with plastic track connectors so the power doesn't keep going down the track and creating a short.
You then run a bus wire under the layout and drop wires from the track to that bus. So you can isolate every individual bit of track and power through the bus.
Another thought on the woes of the OP.
If you have a continuous run loop or oval, then you have to make sure you do not have all the track connected up and must have a physical break in the circuit.
If not, then any message from the controller will be sent both ways along the track and hit the train at different times causing unexpected behaviour.
If you have a continuous run loop or oval, then you have to make sure you do not have all the track connected up and must have a physical break in the circuit.
If not, then any message from the controller will be sent both ways along the track and hit the train at different times causing unexpected behaviour.
AppleJuice said:
Having an issue with DCC myself at the moment - I've installed a 90-degree crossover and trying to figure out why sometimes locomotives run happily over it and sometimes they stop just after crossing. Head scratcher...
Could try "bridging" power cables across the crossover; if you get no more unexpected stoppages then suggests some sort of "insulation/isolation" effect with the crossover.Are the locos completely clearing the cross-over, or coming to halt on it ? Anything common with these "breakdowns", like loco running with power bogie at the front, or the rear ?
Does the same loco ever run normally over the crossing, then suffer this "breakdown" ? Or conversely, is it always the same locos that "breakdown" when going over the crossing ?
AppleJuice said:
Having an issue with DCC myself at the moment - I've installed a 90-degree crossover and trying to figure out why sometimes locomotives run happily over it and sometimes they stop just after crossing. Head scratcher...
With watching this to see if any of the techniques work (and if there is an equivalent problem)https://youtu.be/FIH157wtli8
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