Learning to fly .....Just how hard?
Discussion
I fancy trying my hand at flying RC planes and Helis.
There is a local club to me that I could join,but I was wondering just how hard it is to learn ?
I have raced indoor cars and have a cheap indoor heli that is fun but not capable of 3D flight sadly.
Any hints ,tips and recommendations on the whole deal chaps?
There is a local club to me that I could join,but I was wondering just how hard it is to learn ?
I have raced indoor cars and have a cheap indoor heli that is fun but not capable of 3D flight sadly.
Any hints ,tips and recommendations on the whole deal chaps?
Edited by Turn7 on Wednesday 24th February 12:33
I started to learn about 2 years ago. First used an iPad simulator 'Electric Rc' there are others available. I then progressed to the Phoenix flight simulator which is quite realistic. Took a while to get used to all the controls, having come from RC cars, but with practice it became easier. I would suggest starting with a 3ch plane then professing to a 4ch.
Started with this http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/airplanes/airp... a good starter plane,but does need a very calm day to fly,
This is a great 4ch trainer plane.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/delta-ray-bnf-with-saf...
I has quite a few crashes/repairs initially, could have avoided a few of these with more practice on the flight simulator.
Started with this http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/airplanes/airp... a good starter plane,but does need a very calm day to fly,
This is a great 4ch trainer plane.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/delta-ray-bnf-with-saf...
I has quite a few crashes/repairs initially, could have avoided a few of these with more practice on the flight simulator.
if you were any good at racing cars then you obviously have good hand/eye co-ordination so you should have no problem.
Assuming the club is half decent it will have instructors etc that will help you learn. A lot of clubs are happy to accept visitors and some even have club trainers that can be used for beginners to get a feel for what it entails.
A bit like driving a car, it is very easy to get into bad habits which are then difficult to get out of and stop you progressing. So I would really recommend getting an instructor to start you off rather than just relying on a simulator etc. (although a sim is great for practicing when the weather is bad)
Assuming the club is half decent it will have instructors etc that will help you learn. A lot of clubs are happy to accept visitors and some even have club trainers that can be used for beginners to get a feel for what it entails.
A bit like driving a car, it is very easy to get into bad habits which are then difficult to get out of and stop you progressing. So I would really recommend getting an instructor to start you off rather than just relying on a simulator etc. (although a sim is great for practicing when the weather is bad)
btw you will find everyone has different opinions on this but I would avoid stuff like the delta-ray linked to above. Nothing wrong with it as I model I am sure but you will learn better (ie better understand how the plane flies) with something more traditional.
If you want to go for IC powered then the WOT trainer is hard to beat:
http://www.rcworld.co.uk/acatalog/WOT-Trainer-ARTF...
For electric the a multiplex mentor
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?i...
Neither are cheap but are good solid workhorses.
There are plenty of others similar but the key is having something big and relatively heavy and not too powerful. Teaches you a lot more about how it flies.
I learnt on a wot4 foamie
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?i...
it is more of an advanced trainer so more difficult to start with (need to master aileron control from the start) but is a very capable aerobatic aircraft for when you get better.
If you want to go for IC powered then the WOT trainer is hard to beat:
http://www.rcworld.co.uk/acatalog/WOT-Trainer-ARTF...
For electric the a multiplex mentor
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?i...
Neither are cheap but are good solid workhorses.
There are plenty of others similar but the key is having something big and relatively heavy and not too powerful. Teaches you a lot more about how it flies.
I learnt on a wot4 foamie
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?i...
it is more of an advanced trainer so more difficult to start with (need to master aileron control from the start) but is a very capable aerobatic aircraft for when you get better.
I think you'll be fine, I started flying fixed wing in October with the support of my local club. Prior to that I've done all sorts of RC stuff including being a licensed commercial drone operator. I'm now waiting for a suitable flying day to take my BMFA A exam (in my club that permits me to fly without an instructor at my side).
In my experience it seems you either get it or you don't, and I suggest your prior expeience means you will. Try to learn the basic 'priciples of flight' so that you understand the varios cause and effect of the control surfaces - that way you'll grasp what your instructor says quicker.
I supported my practce with a simulator App called 'Electric RC' on my iPad and iPhone, it's a bit hard at first but it certainly helped me - and in reality the actual plane is much easier to fly. My best advice though is don't be daunted by it, I think I was and was pleasently surprised to discover that it was more accesable that I thought.
Personally I like the whole club experience, there's a wealth of knowledge to tap into and advice is freely offered, club flying also promotes safe flying which I see as a very good thing. Yes, I know some clubs can be cliqey but mine isn't and I've been warmmly welcomed. Just be ready to be ribbed if (when) you crash!
ETA - You may also find this thread of interest:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In my experience it seems you either get it or you don't, and I suggest your prior expeience means you will. Try to learn the basic 'priciples of flight' so that you understand the varios cause and effect of the control surfaces - that way you'll grasp what your instructor says quicker.
I supported my practce with a simulator App called 'Electric RC' on my iPad and iPhone, it's a bit hard at first but it certainly helped me - and in reality the actual plane is much easier to fly. My best advice though is don't be daunted by it, I think I was and was pleasently surprised to discover that it was more accesable that I thought.
Personally I like the whole club experience, there's a wealth of knowledge to tap into and advice is freely offered, club flying also promotes safe flying which I see as a very good thing. Yes, I know some clubs can be cliqey but mine isn't and I've been warmmly welcomed. Just be ready to be ribbed if (when) you crash!
ETA - You may also find this thread of interest:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Boatbuoy on Thursday 25th February 11:17
Like most things it takes a while to "click".
As soon as it does it becomes a lot easier. For me that was 1-2 years.
I went to helicopters first, from cars. Lots of crashes and lots of money.
Then planes. Seemed a lot easier, few crashes but easier to fix. More fun - for me anyway.
Then quads (and hex), seemed super easy compared to either heli or plane.
Now I am back on planes. I prefer the freedom and range.
That said I suspect I may well get back into small quads given the advances in tech in the last 12 months.
I fly a lot of FPV.
As soon as it does it becomes a lot easier. For me that was 1-2 years.
I went to helicopters first, from cars. Lots of crashes and lots of money.
Then planes. Seemed a lot easier, few crashes but easier to fix. More fun - for me anyway.
Then quads (and hex), seemed super easy compared to either heli or plane.
Now I am back on planes. I prefer the freedom and range.
That said I suspect I may well get back into small quads given the advances in tech in the last 12 months.
I fly a lot of FPV.
The only additional thing you really have to get a grip of that cars don't offer is getting a feel for the air - by proxy.
A computer simulator is a good idea and will save some really dumb-thumb moments. I'm quite old-school though and believe in learning to fly organically - fixed wing at least. You need to learn to feel how hard the wing is working, albeit through your right thumb (assuming Mode 2 controls which is most common) and through visual cues. All the hand-eye coordination in the world won't help if you can't tell whether the airflow is attached to the wing or not (stalled).
In that regard, a cheap motor glider or at least a classical high winged trainer model is good. You shouldn't roll it in to the deck coming towards yourself thanks to your r/c car experience, but you are going to stall the wing a lot early on when turning downwind and on landing when speed is hard to judge. Such a model is as forgiving as they get and will let you learn from your mistakes. Something faster or with high wing loadings tend to have nippy stall characteristics and a stall which would a sluggish decent with poor control response on a trainer model becomes a vicious half-roll to inverted before burying itself up to its wing in the dirt.
With the right model and right approach, success rates are high. Trying to jump in at the deep end usually results in frustration and abandonment in favour of some other pass-time.
A computer simulator is a good idea and will save some really dumb-thumb moments. I'm quite old-school though and believe in learning to fly organically - fixed wing at least. You need to learn to feel how hard the wing is working, albeit through your right thumb (assuming Mode 2 controls which is most common) and through visual cues. All the hand-eye coordination in the world won't help if you can't tell whether the airflow is attached to the wing or not (stalled).
In that regard, a cheap motor glider or at least a classical high winged trainer model is good. You shouldn't roll it in to the deck coming towards yourself thanks to your r/c car experience, but you are going to stall the wing a lot early on when turning downwind and on landing when speed is hard to judge. Such a model is as forgiving as they get and will let you learn from your mistakes. Something faster or with high wing loadings tend to have nippy stall characteristics and a stall which would a sluggish decent with poor control response on a trainer model becomes a vicious half-roll to inverted before burying itself up to its wing in the dirt.
With the right model and right approach, success rates are high. Trying to jump in at the deep end usually results in frustration and abandonment in favour of some other pass-time.
Are there any other options for clubs? I think you will find it very difficult without one to one help.
Visit your local model shop and ask if they know of anyone local to you who may help you learn.
I wouldn't recommend a 450 size heli as a first model they can be quite a handful and need treating with respect, can easily hurt you or others.
If you are going to try learning in a public place eg a park be very careful about other people, they won't keep out of your way and it's a difficult environment to not be fully in control.
And please join something like the BMFA to get insurance cover it's not expensive, and they can also put in touch with local clubs etc.
As for radio gear, it's all very reasonably priced now so just get a 4 to 6 channel set with a few mixers and it will do all you need. Like this:-http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=46516
Most are now mode 1 or 2 (throttle left or right)
Sorry if this sounds a little discouraging, it's a great hobby that I've been involved in for over thirty years but a lot of people don't treat it with the respect it deserves and give up when they can't fly like an ace in a couple of weeks.
Good luck and happy landings
Edit
Useful RC forum
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/
Visit your local model shop and ask if they know of anyone local to you who may help you learn.
I wouldn't recommend a 450 size heli as a first model they can be quite a handful and need treating with respect, can easily hurt you or others.
If you are going to try learning in a public place eg a park be very careful about other people, they won't keep out of your way and it's a difficult environment to not be fully in control.
And please join something like the BMFA to get insurance cover it's not expensive, and they can also put in touch with local clubs etc.
As for radio gear, it's all very reasonably priced now so just get a 4 to 6 channel set with a few mixers and it will do all you need. Like this:-http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=46516
Most are now mode 1 or 2 (throttle left or right)
Sorry if this sounds a little discouraging, it's a great hobby that I've been involved in for over thirty years but a lot of people don't treat it with the respect it deserves and give up when they can't fly like an ace in a couple of weeks.
Good luck and happy landings
Edit
Useful RC forum
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/
Edited by Easternlight on Sunday 28th February 00:02
Do not buy a Rex. You will crash, you wont know how to fix it, that will be the end of your flying. Probably.
If you really want to get into flying helicopters then start with a twin axis el cheapo.
Search Double horse on ebay. Pay as cheap as possible.
Fly that for at least 2-3 hours until you can fly the following for 1 full battery pack.
Hover nose out
Climb & descend
Transition from hover to forward flight and then backwards to hover again.
Hover nose out with slow 90 deg turns side every 20 - 30 seconds.
Side hover with transition to forward flight and back again.
Hover nose in with combination of 90 degree turns and forward flight
Left hand circuits
Right hand circuits
Circuits with change of direction.
Do not skip or try and jump from hover nose in to left hand circuits... make sure you do it 1 battery pack at a time at least - but your mid point will probably take 2 - 3 packs at least before you can do it properly.
Once you can do all that on el cheapo then you are ready to move to a fixed pitch helicopter. Look at the ESky Honey Bee.
Repeat the above on the FP and you will see its about 100 times harder. I expect you will need a fair few hours flight time on FP. However your XP on the above will mean you will get a massive head start and the inputs will make more sense. Again buy cheap, buy big. Easier to fly and see the nose. Again just stick to mode 2 basic RC that comes with it.
Once you can fly FP without crashing and you can make some nice circuits and climb and turn and then descend into a hover from forward flight you are ready for collective pitch (Rex 450). You are now ready to buy your own RC gear, kit, batteries etc. Get ready for a fairly big bill - although you can sometimes find good deals on e-bay on lightly used stuff. I would stick to Futaba for RC. (each to their own though!)
If you get this far you have done well, and you should be able to fly collective pitch very nice and smooth and the sudden increase in power and responsiveness will make it seem like a razor blade compared to your FP helicopter but it should all start to come together and you will be able to fly it nicely and not spend £££ on crashes. Hopefully you will also have learned how to repair it - takes hours and you wont believe just how much damage travels down the moving parts when you crash - the whole drive train can bend and its made from many, many small moving parts. You will also learn about gyros and pitch settings, head speed, blade types, batteries (caution with lipos!) and the weather!
After this your next challenge is to start looking at pushing into basic aerobatics but you need lots of sim time before you try. I can do basic loops and rolls and that's it and I have been flying for many years..
If you really want to get into flying helicopters then start with a twin axis el cheapo.
Search Double horse on ebay. Pay as cheap as possible.
Fly that for at least 2-3 hours until you can fly the following for 1 full battery pack.
Hover nose out
Climb & descend
Transition from hover to forward flight and then backwards to hover again.
Hover nose out with slow 90 deg turns side every 20 - 30 seconds.
Side hover with transition to forward flight and back again.
Hover nose in with combination of 90 degree turns and forward flight
Left hand circuits
Right hand circuits
Circuits with change of direction.
Do not skip or try and jump from hover nose in to left hand circuits... make sure you do it 1 battery pack at a time at least - but your mid point will probably take 2 - 3 packs at least before you can do it properly.
Once you can do all that on el cheapo then you are ready to move to a fixed pitch helicopter. Look at the ESky Honey Bee.
Repeat the above on the FP and you will see its about 100 times harder. I expect you will need a fair few hours flight time on FP. However your XP on the above will mean you will get a massive head start and the inputs will make more sense. Again buy cheap, buy big. Easier to fly and see the nose. Again just stick to mode 2 basic RC that comes with it.
Once you can fly FP without crashing and you can make some nice circuits and climb and turn and then descend into a hover from forward flight you are ready for collective pitch (Rex 450). You are now ready to buy your own RC gear, kit, batteries etc. Get ready for a fairly big bill - although you can sometimes find good deals on e-bay on lightly used stuff. I would stick to Futaba for RC. (each to their own though!)
If you get this far you have done well, and you should be able to fly collective pitch very nice and smooth and the sudden increase in power and responsiveness will make it seem like a razor blade compared to your FP helicopter but it should all start to come together and you will be able to fly it nicely and not spend £££ on crashes. Hopefully you will also have learned how to repair it - takes hours and you wont believe just how much damage travels down the moving parts when you crash - the whole drive train can bend and its made from many, many small moving parts. You will also learn about gyros and pitch settings, head speed, blade types, batteries (caution with lipos!) and the weather!
After this your next challenge is to start looking at pushing into basic aerobatics but you need lots of sim time before you try. I can do basic loops and rolls and that's it and I have been flying for many years..
personally I would avoid the cheap transmitters like the Hitec linked to above. They have very limited programming and will become useless very quickly. I am no expert in helis but don't they generally require curves etc anyway?
I am a big fan of frsky stuff. I have the turnigy 9x with frsky transmit module and receivers and upgraded software. That needed some hardware mods to program though so nowadays I would recommend the frsky taranis.
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/67752FrSky_2_4GHz_ACCST_TARANIS_X9D_PLUS_and_X8R_Combo_Digital_Telemetry_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html
Performance and functionality for less than half the price of the big names.
If you must get a big name brand then Hitec is not bad on a budget but I would not go lower than an optic 6. Spektrum is very popular at the cheaper end although I am not convinced by their reliability, I would definitely avoid their DSM kit, DSMX is a lot better in theory so their reliability issues could have improved.
Back to flying, if you still want to try fixed wing do you have any decent slope soaring sites near you? Generally flying there will not be controlled like it is at a power site and personally I find soaring much more rewarding. It is harder to learn and landings are best performed by your a helper/instructor until you get the hang of things but models are much cheaper.
While it is easier if you find a slope soaring club I have generally found that on any slope where there is decent lift you will find someone who is more than happy to help you. Like a club, turning up and having a chat is the 1st step.
Oh, and whatever you decide, get your name on the waiting list at the local club. If you decide to take the hobby seriously you will want to be a member at some stage.
I am a big fan of frsky stuff. I have the turnigy 9x with frsky transmit module and receivers and upgraded software. That needed some hardware mods to program though so nowadays I would recommend the frsky taranis.
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/67752FrSky_2_4GHz_ACCST_TARANIS_X9D_PLUS_and_X8R_Combo_Digital_Telemetry_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html
Performance and functionality for less than half the price of the big names.
If you must get a big name brand then Hitec is not bad on a budget but I would not go lower than an optic 6. Spektrum is very popular at the cheaper end although I am not convinced by their reliability, I would definitely avoid their DSM kit, DSMX is a lot better in theory so their reliability issues could have improved.
Back to flying, if you still want to try fixed wing do you have any decent slope soaring sites near you? Generally flying there will not be controlled like it is at a power site and personally I find soaring much more rewarding. It is harder to learn and landings are best performed by your a helper/instructor until you get the hang of things but models are much cheaper.
While it is easier if you find a slope soaring club I have generally found that on any slope where there is decent lift you will find someone who is more than happy to help you. Like a club, turning up and having a chat is the 1st step.
Oh, and whatever you decide, get your name on the waiting list at the local club. If you decide to take the hobby seriously you will want to be a member at some stage.
I personally use Futaba because I have found it the most reliable and the cost is not actually that bad when its spread over several models and flying for a long time. That's why I suggest you use the boggo basic that comes with it to start with and then when you can actually fly I would go for something you can use for a long time. My Futaba / EZUhf will probably last me another 10 years and already been flying with this set up for 3 or 4.
Thanks guys, some good advice here.
Im planning to visit my local club on Saturday and go from there. As said, I think its worth putting my name on the waiting list of there is one.
Currentyl scanning ebay for micro helis to play with indoors for a while - not coaxial ones.
If I did go the park flying route, theres a very large field I can use (hockey club) that we used to walk the dogs on. Hardly ever see anyone at all down there, ever.
Theres an archery club that use it midweek in the summer.
Im planning to visit my local club on Saturday and go from there. As said, I think its worth putting my name on the waiting list of there is one.
Currentyl scanning ebay for micro helis to play with indoors for a while - not coaxial ones.
If I did go the park flying route, theres a very large field I can use (hockey club) that we used to walk the dogs on. Hardly ever see anyone at all down there, ever.
Theres an archery club that use it midweek in the summer.
I learnt to fly 26 years a go, I was 11. Took me about a year. I started with a 3 Ch. trainer (Ripmax 30 I think it was) with an OS 25. It was hopelessly under-powered so one of the old chaps gave me an OS 46, that was a game-changer and I found it much easier to fly. That plane met it's end after the wings gave during flight, probably due to a cartwheel I'd done on a previous landing! Went a 4 ch after that and it was much better to fly than the 3 ch.
Quite a while since I've flown but I'll get back to it one day. I've never used a sim and we didn't use a 'buddy box' system. I was quite lucky that there were a couple of the more senior members willing to give up their time to teach me.
I will say that there were some there who had been flying years and still couldn't get the hand of it and had no chance of moving on from the stability of a trainer, so it's not a foregone conclusion that everyone can fly.
Find a decent club, get a proper plane that they recommend and have some patience!
Quite a while since I've flown but I'll get back to it one day. I've never used a sim and we didn't use a 'buddy box' system. I was quite lucky that there were a couple of the more senior members willing to give up their time to teach me.
I will say that there were some there who had been flying years and still couldn't get the hand of it and had no chance of moving on from the stability of a trainer, so it's not a foregone conclusion that everyone can fly.
Find a decent club, get a proper plane that they recommend and have some patience!
Couldnt get down the flying field last weekend, and today was to windy.
Hoping to get down there in the morning and meet the clubs chief instructor.
After ignoring all the advice above (like you do
), I bought a Blade Nano CPS to play with....
Its not easy is it ?
However, its coming together quite quickly and I love learning...
Hoping to get down there in the morning and meet the clubs chief instructor.
After ignoring all the advice above (like you do
), I bought a Blade Nano CPS to play with....Its not easy is it ?
However, its coming together quite quickly and I love learning...
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