2018 XC90 D5 - Polestar Optimisation
Discussion
We've had our XC90 for nearly two years now, and while it's a nice car, the gearbox has always seemed to be a bit of a letdown - in essence it feels quite old school. It's an R-Design Pro and obviously it's a big heavy SUV, and it's never going to be a racing machine.
It's biggest annoyance is rolling up to giveway's or roundabouts and doing a rolling start. It generally hesitates and then decides that 1st gear would be better than 2nd gear, and hence it can seem ungraceful, as it then needs a delicate touch on the throttle to avoid lurching. I've often wondered if it's a function of the Power Pulse system, the sheer mass of the car, and possibly poor gearbox software.
Normally when the car is serviced, it has a general software update, the adapatives are reset, and it feels markedly better. That then diminsihes as the car re-learns.
Recently I got emailed the offer for a two week trial of the Polestar Optimisation, and theought I'd give it a whiz. The price is £595, which seems pretty steep. I've read mixed reports. Some say it's amazing, and others feel a bit aggreived that it didn't come with this as standard,
1 week into the trial, I've put on quite a few miles to try and get any learning/adaptive issues out of the way.
On the power/torque side of things, it's not a massive change - it's not marketed as such. I'd say it's useful, and perhaps offsets perhaps some of the torque feeling it has compared to a say a siz cylinder Landrover product. The gap between them seems , more acceptable considering this is just a 4-pot diesel.
In it's 'Polestar Engineered' mode (formerly Dynamic) the gearbox is better when you're pushing on. It arrives into bends and exits them is a much more composed manner. That's definitely an improvement, but it's not really a day to day benefit for me personally.
In Comfort & Polestar Engineered mode, I'd say the hesitancy to select a sensible gear approaching a rolling giveway is better. Perhaps not perfect, but I suppose the alternative is to operate it in manual mode. It does however feel sharper overall.
At this stage I've not got a feel for mpg - As I've been spirited in testing, it'll not be represenative of day to day conditions. It's said to not impact mpg.
7 days from now I need to decide to 'stick or twist'. Jury's out. It is better, and in fairness, overall it's probably as good as a 4-pot diesel and auto will get in this application. It's probably the lack of value for money feeling that sours it. Had there been an additional £595 on the car's cost when I bought it, I suspect I'd not have blinked. Adding it in now probably makes me ponder it a bit more.
The car itself is our familly long termer, so in reality, if I stick the cost is not so bad. If I twist, and go back to standard I do wonder if I'll begrudge the dimwitted gearbox?
Anyone out there had experience of this upgrade?
Thanks
It's biggest annoyance is rolling up to giveway's or roundabouts and doing a rolling start. It generally hesitates and then decides that 1st gear would be better than 2nd gear, and hence it can seem ungraceful, as it then needs a delicate touch on the throttle to avoid lurching. I've often wondered if it's a function of the Power Pulse system, the sheer mass of the car, and possibly poor gearbox software.
Normally when the car is serviced, it has a general software update, the adapatives are reset, and it feels markedly better. That then diminsihes as the car re-learns.
Recently I got emailed the offer for a two week trial of the Polestar Optimisation, and theought I'd give it a whiz. The price is £595, which seems pretty steep. I've read mixed reports. Some say it's amazing, and others feel a bit aggreived that it didn't come with this as standard,
1 week into the trial, I've put on quite a few miles to try and get any learning/adaptive issues out of the way.
On the power/torque side of things, it's not a massive change - it's not marketed as such. I'd say it's useful, and perhaps offsets perhaps some of the torque feeling it has compared to a say a siz cylinder Landrover product. The gap between them seems , more acceptable considering this is just a 4-pot diesel.
In it's 'Polestar Engineered' mode (formerly Dynamic) the gearbox is better when you're pushing on. It arrives into bends and exits them is a much more composed manner. That's definitely an improvement, but it's not really a day to day benefit for me personally.
In Comfort & Polestar Engineered mode, I'd say the hesitancy to select a sensible gear approaching a rolling giveway is better. Perhaps not perfect, but I suppose the alternative is to operate it in manual mode. It does however feel sharper overall.
At this stage I've not got a feel for mpg - As I've been spirited in testing, it'll not be represenative of day to day conditions. It's said to not impact mpg.
7 days from now I need to decide to 'stick or twist'. Jury's out. It is better, and in fairness, overall it's probably as good as a 4-pot diesel and auto will get in this application. It's probably the lack of value for money feeling that sours it. Had there been an additional £595 on the car's cost when I bought it, I suspect I'd not have blinked. Adding it in now probably makes me ponder it a bit more.
The car itself is our familly long termer, so in reality, if I stick the cost is not so bad. If I twist, and go back to standard I do wonder if I'll begrudge the dimwitted gearbox?
Anyone out there had experience of this upgrade?
Thanks
Bogsye said:
We've had our XC90 for nearly two years now, and while it's a nice car, the gearbox has always seemed to be a bit of a letdown - in essence it feels quite old school. It's an R-Design Pro and obviously it's a big heavy SUV, and it's never going to be a racing machine.
It's biggest annoyance is rolling up to giveway's or roundabouts and doing a rolling start. It generally hesitates and then decides that 1st gear would be better than 2nd gear, and hence it can seem ungraceful, as it then needs a delicate touch on the throttle to avoid lurching. I've often wondered if it's a function of the Power Pulse system, the sheer mass of the car, and possibly poor gearbox software.
Normally when the car is serviced, it has a general software update, the adapatives are reset, and it feels markedly better. That then diminsihes as the car re-learns.
Recently I got emailed the offer for a two week trial of the Polestar Optimisation, and theought I'd give it a whiz. The price is £595, which seems pretty steep. I've read mixed reports. Some say it's amazing, and others feel a bit aggreived that it didn't come with this as standard,
1 week into the trial, I've put on quite a few miles to try and get any learning/adaptive issues out of the way.
On the power/torque side of things, it's not a massive change - it's not marketed as such. I'd say it's useful, and perhaps offsets perhaps some of the torque feeling it has compared to a say a siz cylinder Landrover product. The gap between them seems , more acceptable considering this is just a 4-pot diesel.
In it's 'Polestar Engineered' mode (formerly Dynamic) the gearbox is better when you're pushing on. It arrives into bends and exits them is a much more composed manner. That's definitely an improvement, but it's not really a day to day benefit for me personally.
In Comfort & Polestar Engineered mode, I'd say the hesitancy to select a sensible gear approaching a rolling giveway is better. Perhaps not perfect, but I suppose the alternative is to operate it in manual mode. It does however feel sharper overall.
At this stage I've not got a feel for mpg - As I've been spirited in testing, it'll not be represenative of day to day conditions. It's said to not impact mpg.
7 days from now I need to decide to 'stick or twist'. Jury's out. It is better, and in fairness, overall it's probably as good as a 4-pot diesel and auto will get in this application. It's probably the lack of value for money feeling that sours it. Had there been an additional £595 on the car's cost when I bought it, I suspect I'd not have blinked. Adding it in now probably makes me ponder it a bit more.
The car itself is our familly long termer, so in reality, if I stick the cost is not so bad. If I twist, and go back to standard I do wonder if I'll begrudge the dimwitted gearbox?
Anyone out there had experience of this upgrade?
Thanks
I have just bought an XC60 D5 2018 and love the car apart from the gearbox. Frankly its bloody awful. I looked at the Polestar upgrade and the figures just dont warrant the price. I am going to wait till the warranty runs out then go down the after market route. It probably wont sort out the shyte gearbox but figures look alot better than the polestar option.It's biggest annoyance is rolling up to giveway's or roundabouts and doing a rolling start. It generally hesitates and then decides that 1st gear would be better than 2nd gear, and hence it can seem ungraceful, as it then needs a delicate touch on the throttle to avoid lurching. I've often wondered if it's a function of the Power Pulse system, the sheer mass of the car, and possibly poor gearbox software.
Normally when the car is serviced, it has a general software update, the adapatives are reset, and it feels markedly better. That then diminsihes as the car re-learns.
Recently I got emailed the offer for a two week trial of the Polestar Optimisation, and theought I'd give it a whiz. The price is £595, which seems pretty steep. I've read mixed reports. Some say it's amazing, and others feel a bit aggreived that it didn't come with this as standard,
1 week into the trial, I've put on quite a few miles to try and get any learning/adaptive issues out of the way.
On the power/torque side of things, it's not a massive change - it's not marketed as such. I'd say it's useful, and perhaps offsets perhaps some of the torque feeling it has compared to a say a siz cylinder Landrover product. The gap between them seems , more acceptable considering this is just a 4-pot diesel.
In it's 'Polestar Engineered' mode (formerly Dynamic) the gearbox is better when you're pushing on. It arrives into bends and exits them is a much more composed manner. That's definitely an improvement, but it's not really a day to day benefit for me personally.
In Comfort & Polestar Engineered mode, I'd say the hesitancy to select a sensible gear approaching a rolling giveway is better. Perhaps not perfect, but I suppose the alternative is to operate it in manual mode. It does however feel sharper overall.
At this stage I've not got a feel for mpg - As I've been spirited in testing, it'll not be represenative of day to day conditions. It's said to not impact mpg.
7 days from now I need to decide to 'stick or twist'. Jury's out. It is better, and in fairness, overall it's probably as good as a 4-pot diesel and auto will get in this application. It's probably the lack of value for money feeling that sours it. Had there been an additional £595 on the car's cost when I bought it, I suspect I'd not have blinked. Adding it in now probably makes me ponder it a bit more.
The car itself is our familly long termer, so in reality, if I stick the cost is not so bad. If I twist, and go back to standard I do wonder if I'll begrudge the dimwitted gearbox?
Anyone out there had experience of this upgrade?
Thanks
Cheers Daz - I'm not alone then in thinking this gearbox is a bit woeful. 
Powerwise, I agree, it's not a big jump, but nonetheless it does feel useful. The Service Manager seemed sceptical that the rolling start would be much better, but it's safe to say it is. There are still times when it could be better.
I'll have a browse and see what other options are out there - last I checked it was pretty limited. I was going to extend the warranty, but to be honest the process of trying ot buy warranty was poor, so I just decided to put the monthly cost aside as a fighting fund.
Powerwise, I agree, it's not a big jump, but nonetheless it does feel useful. The Service Manager seemed sceptical that the rolling start would be much better, but it's safe to say it is. There are still times when it could be better.
I'll have a browse and see what other options are out there - last I checked it was pretty limited. I was going to extend the warranty, but to be honest the process of trying ot buy warranty was poor, so I just decided to put the monthly cost aside as a fighting fund.
Volvo have never been good at this in the XC90. Our mk1 was worse still.
I think it's an inability to match the turbo delivery with the gearbox. I also wonder if they had concerns with longevity and hence hold it back.
I haven't tried it recently, but think it can be overcome to a degree in manual mode. I've not tried in a while as 95% of the time you simply get used to it.
I guess they had to leave something to improve for the mk3 (The car's so good as a family wagon we forgive it its few foibles. It's a big leap from the mk1 and for our use the best of its kind).
I think it's an inability to match the turbo delivery with the gearbox. I also wonder if they had concerns with longevity and hence hold it back.
I haven't tried it recently, but think it can be overcome to a degree in manual mode. I've not tried in a while as 95% of the time you simply get used to it.
I guess they had to leave something to improve for the mk3
(The car's so good as a family wagon we forgive it its few foibles. It's a big leap from the mk1 and for our use the best of its kind). I don't know what this Polestar Optimisation is - I thought Polestar was an EV brand owned by Volvo's owners. But from the context it sounds like a software package that changes the car's ECU and drivetrain control software? If so, why not decline at the end of the 14 days and go back to how it was. The old adage is that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone, and that might actually help you make a decision. If you decline, I assume there is no cost? If you then hate the car in its standard form, you can presumably still pay the money and have the upgrade installed.
I had a 2018 XC90 D5 R-Design, bought last October but sold it in May (making £7k profit) as have aTiguan R on order. I got my local dealer to do the Polestar Optimisation after I'd had it a couple of months and obviously power wise there's not much of an increase but the revised gearbox mapping makes it much more responsive, definitely worth it in my opinion, you do get 14 day trial so can get a refund if you feel it's not for you.
Murph7355 said:
Volvo have never been good at this in the XC90. Our mk1 was worse still.
I think it's an inability to match the turbo delivery with the gearbox. I also wonder if they had concerns with longevity and hence hold it back.
I haven't tried it recently, but think it can be overcome to a degree in manual mode. I've not tried in a while as 95% of the time you simply get used to it.
I guess they had to leave something to improve for the mk3 (The car's so good as a family wagon we forgive it its few foibles. It's a big leap from the mk1 and for our use the best of its kind).
Thanks Murph, that's interesting to know the mk1 wasn't too hot in that regard too. I've got very little experience of automatic transmissions. My last place had a Passat 2.0Tdi with a DSG box pool car, and in fairness it was decent. I've got a 20 year old Audi S8 and it's better, although it's naturally aspirated and has spades of torque on demand.I think it's an inability to match the turbo delivery with the gearbox. I also wonder if they had concerns with longevity and hence hold it back.
I haven't tried it recently, but think it can be overcome to a degree in manual mode. I've not tried in a while as 95% of the time you simply get used to it.
I guess they had to leave something to improve for the mk3
(The car's so good as a family wagon we forgive it its few foibles. It's a big leap from the mk1 and for our use the best of its kind). I've had a shot on manual mode and it's okay, but not really a practical solution for me droppping in and out of manual/auto etc..
I agree regards it's practicality. I'm that guy that turned up in several dealerships with a tape measure to assess X5's Xc90s,.. .
I felt it was hands down a far better designed car in terms of it's usability and practicalities for what we needed. It's a car to chuck kids and all their associated junk into. Likewise parents are getting on, so it gives easy to use accomodation for that too. The third row seats were less faff to operate and with them in place there's some boot space. It ticked our boxes. The downside was always the idea that a 4 cylinder diesel or petrol would work in a big SUV, but likewise I forgave it that aspect in lieu of the other things that it does really well. I drove the T6 & D5. On the T6 I reckoned the real world mpg would be grim on the urban cycle, hence the D5, despite the soot chucker limitations going forward.
LunarOne said:
I don't know what this Polestar Optimisation is - I thought Polestar was an EV brand owned by Volvo's owners. But from the context it sounds like a software package that changes the car's ECU and drivetrain control software? If so, why not decline at the end of the 14 days and go back to how it was. The old adage is that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone, and that might actually help you make a decision. If you decline, I assume there is no cost? If you then hate the car in its standard form, you can presumably still pay the money and have the upgrade installed.
Good points LunarOne - Yes, it's just a remap for the engine and transmission. You're right, I can still decline it and go back. Good way to look at it. simonjj67 said:
I had a 2018 XC90 D5 R-Design, bought last October but sold it in May (making £7k profit) as have aTiguan R on order. I got my local dealer to do the Polestar Optimisation after I'd had it a couple of months and obviously power wise there's not much of an increase but the revised gearbox mapping makes it much more responsive, definitely worth it in my opinion, you do get 14 day trial so can get a refund if you feel it's not for you.
Thanks Simon, likewise sounds like it's aligning with my current thinking. I've gone a couple of school runs this week, and while that sounds a bit sad, it's the real world use that we bought it for. It's not going to be lapping the 'Ring any time soon.. Both runs I've noticed how better the gearbox is at key points of the same route that I do week in week out.
The rolling starts are generally better and in particular coming into bends even on 30mph roads it simply feels more competent. Rather than that horrible old school dead spot when you feel like you roll out of a corner, while the engine and transmission sorts itself out, it has certainly anticipated what's happening next.
I had a look for alternatives for remapping yesterday evening. To be fair there's not a lot out there, and I'm not sure I'd trust a 3rd party remap. The difference in price might be more palatable, but Volvo stands by the warranty with the Polestar upgrade, so I guess it lives within the design margins.
Current thinking is to retain the software. Hmmh..
thebraketester said:
Which gearboxes do these use? ZF?
I actually looked it up and it seems it does use an 8-speed gearbox - I don't know who else makes 8-speed automatics. That ZF8 seems to go into nearly every automatic non-dual-clutch application these days, and the programming makes such a difference!It’s seems odd to me at least. Quite a bit of the SUV competition uses nice six cylinder engines, and Volvo in their wisdom went for 4 pots to play the eco card.
I’d have thought given the inherent lesser refinement of a 4 pot engine and it’s general operating characteristics they’d have paid more attention to the gearbox software.
But then again, it’s been a pretty solid seller for Volvo, so perhaps to the majority it’s not something that matters too much.
It would be interesting to know how many Polestar remaps have been carried out?
I’d have thought given the inherent lesser refinement of a 4 pot engine and it’s general operating characteristics they’d have paid more attention to the gearbox software.
But then again, it’s been a pretty solid seller for Volvo, so perhaps to the majority it’s not something that matters too much.
It would be interesting to know how many Polestar remaps have been carried out?
It’s a box made by Aisin who I believe is also owned by Geely....
I have recently had the Polestar software on my V40 D4 VEA 190hp. It’s a manual so I’m a little cheesed that it’s no cheaper than an auto which also gets a software update.
Anyway it’s not night and day, but there is a definite increase in midrange if not peak torque. It has the power where you need it. But it’s still OK to rev out.
It’s improved MPG too.
https://api.polestar.com/files/downloadRemote?file...
I have recently had the Polestar software on my V40 D4 VEA 190hp. It’s a manual so I’m a little cheesed that it’s no cheaper than an auto which also gets a software update.
Anyway it’s not night and day, but there is a definite increase in midrange if not peak torque. It has the power where you need it. But it’s still OK to rev out.
It’s improved MPG too.
https://api.polestar.com/files/downloadRemote?file...
I've got a 2020 S60 T8, I had the Polestar done two weeks ago but paid £499.00 from Volvo Holdcraft in Stoke. Like you OP I was in two minds if keeping or not , I decided to keep it. It's not a life changing upgrade on the T8, all I can say the car feels more competent, not as turbo diesel like before, certainly smoother but does nothing in my opinion for the fun side. I had it done because it's near 400bhp and 4.4 secs to 60 should be an occasion, it is quick but doesn't feel quick, I was expecting Polestar to address that but doesn't really, maybe I'm expecting too much. If I had paid full price for it then that would have pushed me over the edge to get it removed, the gear changing is better so worth keeping for that.
I've also noticed it's much more sensitive to the fuel it uses, first tank was Tesco Momentum, felt ok, next tank I had no choice but to use Costco regular unleaded, now feels flatter than pre polestar.
I got such a good deal on the T8 that I'll be keeping it, originally wanted a BMW M340, the car Id seen was £12k more, difficult to justify that amount, plus the Volvo had almost every extra, B&W sound, Pano roof, 360 cameras etc etc, so 99% of the time a great car, just that little something missing that I'd hope Polestar would fix.
I've also noticed it's much more sensitive to the fuel it uses, first tank was Tesco Momentum, felt ok, next tank I had no choice but to use Costco regular unleaded, now feels flatter than pre polestar.
I got such a good deal on the T8 that I'll be keeping it, originally wanted a BMW M340, the car Id seen was £12k more, difficult to justify that amount, plus the Volvo had almost every extra, B&W sound, Pano roof, 360 cameras etc etc, so 99% of the time a great car, just that little something missing that I'd hope Polestar would fix.
PT1984 said:
You could have used Costco premium! But saying that they’ve dropped it from 99 to 97 RON, but it’s still E5.
The normal stuff is now E10.
That’s what I went to try but they were out that day!! The sign at Costco said E10 starting September but the nozzle said E10, I assume that why it was a bit flat?The normal stuff is now E10.
Edited by PT1984 on Friday 27th August 14:11
Bogsye said:
...
I agree regards it's practicality. I'm that guy that turned up in several dealerships with a tape measure to assess X5's Xc90s,.. . I felt it was hands down a far better designed car in terms of it's usability and practicalities for what we needed. It's a car to chuck kids and all their associated junk into. Likewise parents are getting on, so it gives easy to use accomodation for that too. The third row seats were less faff to operate and with them in place there's some boot space. It ticked our boxes.
I went round Volvo, JLR, Audi and Merc dealers with a pram and several bags but no kids to try the lot I agree regards it's practicality. I'm that guy that turned up in several dealerships with a tape measure to assess X5's Xc90s,.. .
I felt it was hands down a far better designed car in terms of it's usability and practicalities for what we needed. It's a car to chuck kids and all their associated junk into. Likewise parents are getting on, so it gives easy to use accomodation for that too. The third row seats were less faff to operate and with them in place there's some boot space. It ticked our boxes. Had some pretty strange looks! The Q7 was the nearest in terms of usability. Huge inside. But a lot more expensive like for like spec wise and I've never been a fan of the way it looks.Bogsye said:
...
The downside was always the idea that a 4 cylinder diesel or petrol would work in a big SUV, but likewise I forgave it that aspect in lieu of the other things that it does really well. I drove the T6 & D5. On the T6 I reckoned the real world mpg would be grim on the urban cycle, hence the D5, despite the soot chucker limitations going forward.
I don't think the D5 is the problem - it's 200-220bhp, so powerful enough IMO for what the car is. And I've never had an issue with its manners. Sure it's no V8, but it's OK.The downside was always the idea that a 4 cylinder diesel or petrol would work in a big SUV, but likewise I forgave it that aspect in lieu of the other things that it does really well. I drove the T6 & D5. On the T6 I reckoned the real world mpg would be grim on the urban cycle, hence the D5, despite the soot chucker limitations going forward.
I think the bigger problem is the way the gearbox is integrated/mapped.
I believe the full EV version is scheduled for next year or the year after. Assuming they don't mess that right up it should address these shortfalls. If they don't step up the prices like the Mk1 to Mk2 jump then it will be a bit of a no brainer for what will likely be our last requirement for a 7-seater....unfortunately I suspect they won't be able to resist a huge price hike...I can see them starting at £70k+.
I thought I'd update this one. After quite a bit of deliberation I decided to keep the software on. Yes it feels like quite a bit of money in general, but both my wife and I felt the overall improvement in how it drives and the alertness of the gearbox justifies it.
In fairness, my wife genuinely does a great job of suffering my car enthusiasm, and has not much interest in driving or cars, however when she can identify the improvement in how it drives, that really highlights the step change.Our conclusion was that we'd probably regret it if we returned to the standard software, and as mentioned before, the rest of the car is an excellent all round design, which was otherwise marred by engine and transmission matching.
The only fly in the ointment is insurance. Personally I like to have everything just right, and above board, and this has been a ball ache.
Without hooking the car up to a computer it's obvious it has the Polestar package as Dynamic is now replaced by Polestar Optimised or Engineered, so in my mind it's not exactly covert. Some may argue otherwise and take a chance, but I'd rather not.
Despite this being a manufacturer approved upgrade/option of less than 10% peak power, in fact 8% to be more exact, some insurers won't touch it. The insurer with the big red telephone point blank won't touch any form of remap. In some respects I understand that's their policy/risk profile, however it shows a disconnect between what Volvo is supplying and the way it's portrayed to the insurance industry. No amount of referring it back to underwriting had an effect. As a result I had to move it out of a relatively new policy onto an aletrnative. Granted there were no cancelaltion fees, but it was a bit of admin that needed to be done.
Personally I'm used to using specialsit brokers for the Cerbera etc.. so it's no big issue, but I quite liked to use DL for our general needs.
In fairness, my wife genuinely does a great job of suffering my car enthusiasm, and has not much interest in driving or cars, however when she can identify the improvement in how it drives, that really highlights the step change.Our conclusion was that we'd probably regret it if we returned to the standard software, and as mentioned before, the rest of the car is an excellent all round design, which was otherwise marred by engine and transmission matching.
The only fly in the ointment is insurance. Personally I like to have everything just right, and above board, and this has been a ball ache.
Without hooking the car up to a computer it's obvious it has the Polestar package as Dynamic is now replaced by Polestar Optimised or Engineered, so in my mind it's not exactly covert. Some may argue otherwise and take a chance, but I'd rather not.
Despite this being a manufacturer approved upgrade/option of less than 10% peak power, in fact 8% to be more exact, some insurers won't touch it. The insurer with the big red telephone point blank won't touch any form of remap. In some respects I understand that's their policy/risk profile, however it shows a disconnect between what Volvo is supplying and the way it's portrayed to the insurance industry. No amount of referring it back to underwriting had an effect. As a result I had to move it out of a relatively new policy onto an aletrnative. Granted there were no cancelaltion fees, but it was a bit of admin that needed to be done.
Personally I'm used to using specialsit brokers for the Cerbera etc.. so it's no big issue, but I quite liked to use DL for our general needs.
Edited by Bogsye on Thursday 2nd September 10:06
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