Volvo 2.5T - after slight ECU tune, low power at low revs

[snaketherunner]

Hey guys,

I try to be simple.

What I own:
> Volvo V70 2004 2.5T
> 2,5L petrol, turbocharged, 210 HP/320 Nm stock

What I did:
> ARD stage 2 ECU tune
> increase to 245 HP/380 Nm

What the problem is:
- car now has low power in lower revs (between 1500 to ~3500 RPM)

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more details -------------------------------------------
Thing is, I believe I can hear the turbo spool as soon as I put the foot down at, lets say, 2000 RPM, but the boost itself is almost not coming until I hit 3-3,5k, then there is massive push up to 6000+ RPM. It seems like something is not letting boost get into engine. It feels really like a N/A car until 3k RPM, where the turbo starts to catch up and push vehicle forward...

At stock ECU, car was perfectly balanced, had power even at lower revs, was great for driving in city and on highway. This 2.5T engine has low pressure turbo and has peak power mainly at midrange. Now it feels stronger, but only above 3,5k RPM... Which is useless in everyday driving, especially in town, no place to rev engine above 4K RPM. (I have around 2800 RPMs at 80 MPH, so when I want to accelerate on highway now, I need to downshift to 4th, so the revs are over 3,5k RPM.)

The tuner recommended to check all vacuum lines, boost leaks, intercooler and to try and adjust wastegate actuator arm. I changed the TCV (turbo control valve), checked for leaks, all good. Car really has some power now in 4-6,5k power band, but low to mid power is really bad.

What could go wrong? Can it be badly adjusted wastegate actuator arm, that lets now higher boost bleed to exhaust?

Thank you for suggestions. Over and out.

Jack

[anonymous-user]

Turbo lag.

[snaketherunner]

Wow, with stock tune there was almost no turbolag... Do you think an ecu tune could create such a big lag? I can hear the turbo spool pretty quickly after adding throttle.

It feels something like this -

[NoIP]

You've used a st tuner. Take it to a reputable place with someone who knows what they're doing instead of charging you £300 for a generic map file they've picked up for £2.50 on Ebay and your car will be fine. There's nothing wrong with your pipes, tell him he's talking out of his arse, doesn't have a clue what he's doing, put the old map back and give you your money back.

[SebringMan]

It does sound like a bad tune. I know if I had the Mondoe 2.5T it will be either Superchips or Pumaspeed who will tune it ; people seem to have good results with them and with 250BHP.

However, I'd check the intercooler pipes as well if they are original. Another thing it could be but it is unlikely is the diverter valve in the turbo ; They have an internal dump valve where the diaphragms can rupture. This in turn can create a leak and give lag.

The MAFs can also play up on these as well ; is your pipework solid to the turbo? You could disconnect the MAF to see if this cures it.

[Mave]

DSGbangs said:

Turbo lag.

I'd guess more likely to be poor fuelling or timing.

[Section 8]

Really does sound like a bad map. It may make good horsepower but if it isn't linear then most things will be off before you have got any proper boost. Had it on an old RS turbo years back it was like nothing....nothing...zzzz......oh st!!

As suggested i would ask for the map to be removed and go back to standard. The car may not make as much bhp but it sure as hell will drive a lot better.

[MDMA .]

DSGbangs said:

Turbo lag.

Boost threshold rather than lag.

[snaketherunner]

Yeah, I can see that too guys now... It was more like £200 , but I don't know if I see that money again. Plus the tuner lives 200 miles away, dammit.

Diaphragm, you mean this part? http://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts/exhaust/turbo...
Price is very reasonable, maybe I should preventively replace that.

With the stock tune I was at 90% times faster than with this "stage 2". I mean, i need to re-learn how the car behaves now, especially when overtaking someone... I was used on much powerfull torque at low revs, which now doesn't exist.. Now I can see why similar kit from BSR or Polestar costs 2-4 times that much...

Is there any other way how to load original SW to ECU? I mean, at the dealer for example? I don't know if I can reach that guy again...

[snaketherunner]

Section 8 said:

Really does sound like a bad map. It may make good horsepower but if it isn't linear then most things will be off before you have got any proper boost. Had it on an old RS turbo years back it was like nothing....nothing...zzzz......oh st!!

As suggested i would ask for the map to be removed and go back to standard. The car may not make as much bhp but it sure as hell will drive a lot better.

Oh, the standard power of 210 HP was quite nice, nobody expected from this boxy boring station wagon such an acceleration. I love sleepers personally and wanted to make one of my Volvo. That is why I wanted few extra HP, nothing radical, only slight tune. However as I said, with stock tune the car was perfectly balanced, had linear through rev range and I knew, what to expect from the engine at any moment... But with this "tune" it is a lottery game... Will it boost enough, when I need to overtake this truck? Or will it hesitate and boost too late? Yeah, it's better not to overtake at all...

I only hope I can load original, stock ECU tune somewhere.

Edited by snaketherunner on Monday 26th June 21:08

[NoIP]

Who did you get it done by? There will be people on here who know him or have contacts. If your car has been running like this from the day he did the remap then it's obviously the remap that's the problem. Replacing various bits of the engine will achieve absolutely nothing except make your wallet considerably lighter. Just get on the blower to him and tell him you want the original map flashing back on so you can eliminate it from your checks. If he's a decent remapper he'll have saved your original map for this reason. If he can't or won't do it then he should be offering you a refund solely for that reason.

[NoIP]

snaketherunner said:

I don't know if I can reach that guy again...

Why do not know if you can reach him again? Trying picking up the phone and dialling his number ??

Earlier you said

snaketherunner said:

The tuner recommended to check all vacuum lines, boost leaks, intercooler and to try and adjust wastegate actuator arm. I changed the TCV (turbo control valve), checked for leaks, all good. Car really has some power now in 4-6,5k power band, but low to mid power is really bad.

so you've clearly been speaking with him since you had it done.

Get on the phone and get him to sort it. He's the one that's fked it with what sounds like a generic £2.50 Ebay map file that isn't even for your make of car!

[HedgeyGedgey]

MDMA . said:

Boost threshold rather than lag.

Hate it when people mistake these two

[snaketherunner]

Yeah, I wrote few messages with him that day he did tune up. Since then I wrote him two emails and he didn't responded... I am expecting the worst. But he is part of local group of Volvo enthusiasts in my country, who work with these cars, so if this guy doesn't answer, I will write somebody else from that group, who will possibly help me...

And that is exactly what they said, that they don't sell any maps from some cheap chinese ebay, but their products are reliable, tested etc... Just look it up, http://www.ardideas.com/

Local group buys SW from that guy, so it might work, but obviously not with every Volvo...

Damn... I hope for the best. Maybe even lcoal Volvo dealer could do reflash of ECU... I will try to contact them...

Thanks for this chat guys, it helped me to ease my mind a little... It would be best, if I could get rid of that damn ECU tune as soon as possible. Who knows if I can't damage engine or components with this..

[HedgeyGedgey]

As standard the boost curve would be very gradual increase till max boost at say 5000rpm. That way you get the smoothness of the power delivery, now it's remapped the boost is mapped to come in stronger, so rather than gradually increasing boost its max boost the earliest the turbo can provide it without suffering from compressor surge. That's how remapped turbo cars are, I personally prefer the big hit of boost compared with a smooth delivery

[anonymous-user]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

How much did you pay for the SW?

If it was cheap, then there is your answer I'm afraid. Take a look at MTE (via Kalmar Union) or RICA for decent off the shelf tunes.

RICA for example offer a +42bhp remap, that adds power right across the rev range.

Hopefully your local dealer can flash the original sw back to the ECU, and then it's a case of learning buy cheap, buy twice.

Tuner was clearly inept, I'd avoid driving the car as you have no idea if it's running lean and running hot, massively overspeeding the turbo when on boost, or overfuelling and suffering bore wash. I don't know why you find it hard to believe that fiddling with all of the fuelling, ignition timing, and boost control parameters of the engine could make it run poorly! Engine calibration is difficult, and a lot of remapped cars die young.

If he can't put the original software back on the car you'll have to take it to a Volvo dealership or specialist with full access to Volvos VIDA system for purchasing software and get them to put it back on.

If you do want to remap, as suggested above stick to MTE or RICA. I've covered 70k on a D5 with an MTE map without issues, and a colleague has done 100k on a RICA map on his T5.

You car has a small, low pressure turbo that is designed to fill out the mid range rather than give you maximum power output. The turbocharger comes in early and at low speeds the LPT cars have more torque than a T5 and are in many ways nicer to live with day to day.

Edited by dme123 on Tuesday 27th June 10:08

[snaketherunner]

Hey guys,

I have some news. I have been to a local guy from that group, he restored the original ECU software and the car is as good as new... That tune was definitely the culprit... The guy told me that after ecu tune, it is recommended to fine tune it at their place. But before I was told it was exactly for this engine type, without no fiddling around... Hm..

Anyhow, now the car pulls strong from low revs as it used to and feels great. And as you said, that LPT turbo is made for strong lower and mid power... So all is good.. Phew...

Thank you, guys.

[NoIP]

snaketherunner said:

Hey guys,

I have some news. I have been to a local guy from that group, he restored the original ECU software and the car is as good as new... That tune was definitely the culprit... The guy told me that after ecu tune, it is recommended to fine tune it at their place. But before I was told it was exactly for this engine type, without no fiddling around... Hm..

Anyhow, now the car pulls strong from low revs as it used to and feels great. And as you said, that LPT turbo is made for strong lower and mid power... So all is good.. Phew...

Thank you, guys.

It was a st tuner, simple as. In fact he probably wasn't a tuner at all and just some bloke that knows how to run some software on his laptop and plug in a connector to your OBD port. Take it to something that knows what they are doing and you'll get a nice increase in power across the rev range, not just all in one go at 3k.

[paulmachin]

Does anyone have experience of the Polestar tune on this engine (in an XC90)? How does it differ from MTE, RICA etc?

[anonymous-user]

paulmachin said:

Does anyone have experience of the Polestar tune on this engine (in an XC90)? How does it differ from MTE, RICA etc?

The polestar tune makes less (claimed) power and torque however it won't be exceeded design specs of the engine and drivetrain.

Not long after my post about my trouble free MTE remap on my 2008 Volvo C70 D5 I needed to replace the gearbox, DMF, clutch (slipping again) and both driveshafts. These manual gearboxes are widely considered to be indestructible, make of that what you will.

I wouldn't remap a car I care about again.