Racelogic Traction Control
Discussion
Afternoon gents
I am a fan of the fact that TVRs do not have any driver aids which results in very pure and undiluted driving experience however every year I read lots of threads about TVRs spinning out on wet motorways often with catastrophic results and normally with experienced drivers at the wheel.
I quite often drive my Tiv in the rain and I often find challenging especially with the torque so low down the rev range it demands constant dedicated attention. I very much like the idea of a TC system that I could switch on when just trying to get from A - B in adverse weather conditions.
Would an aftermarket TC system such as Racelogic prevent a high speed motorway spin out in standing water? Does anyone have this system fitted?
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php/en/other-prod...
I also note that Steve Heath sells a kit which includes the system includes wheel brackets and sensors for TVRs
https://delta.securesslhost.net/~shenglt/catalog/p...
Matthew
I am a fan of the fact that TVRs do not have any driver aids which results in very pure and undiluted driving experience however every year I read lots of threads about TVRs spinning out on wet motorways often with catastrophic results and normally with experienced drivers at the wheel.
I quite often drive my Tiv in the rain and I often find challenging especially with the torque so low down the rev range it demands constant dedicated attention. I very much like the idea of a TC system that I could switch on when just trying to get from A - B in adverse weather conditions.
Would an aftermarket TC system such as Racelogic prevent a high speed motorway spin out in standing water? Does anyone have this system fitted?
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php/en/other-prod...
I also note that Steve Heath sells a kit which includes the system includes wheel brackets and sensors for TVRs
https://delta.securesslhost.net/~shenglt/catalog/p...
Matthew
Yes I had this system fitted on the chim and it works very well, there is also one fitted on a LS cerb, easy to fit, I have removed mine and going to sell it as the Motec ecu that I have fitted to replace the emerald has the TC option enabled on it. I have to say though the Racelogic controls are easier to use as you can have a wet/dry setting and if you want dial in a % slip.
I think I can just about follow how the RL setup works, and whilst I might not want it myself, I can see how it might be desireable to some.
But ..... I can see how it works when "under power".
Does it have any effect though when you hit a saturated road surface, and all you're doing is keeping a constant throttle, I guess in effect "aquaplaning"?
That's when, in my own experience, everything goes very "light" and you just know, inside, thzt your really don't have full control.
For me at that point, it's all "fingertips and eggshells" until you feel the car settle back down to a reasonable level of grip.
Can't quite see how any form of TC helps at that point, until of course you go to apply power ...
But ..... I can see how it works when "under power".
Does it have any effect though when you hit a saturated road surface, and all you're doing is keeping a constant throttle, I guess in effect "aquaplaning"?
That's when, in my own experience, everything goes very "light" and you just know, inside, thzt your really don't have full control.
For me at that point, it's all "fingertips and eggshells" until you feel the car settle back down to a reasonable level of grip.
Can't quite see how any form of TC helps at that point, until of course you go to apply power ...
hiltonig said:
Yes I had this system fitted on the chim and it works very well, there is also one fitted on a LS cerb, easy to fit, I have removed mine and going to sell it as the Motec ecu that I have fitted to replace the emerald has the TC option enabled on it. I have to say though the Racelogic controls are easier to use as you can have a wet/dry setting and if you want dial in a % slip.
I must say that was also an attraction to the system being able to dial in a % of slip. It may seem a silly question but in a normal car when the car begins to slide and the TC kicks in you normally get a yellow light on the dash. How do you know when the RaceLogic is cutting power?sgrimshaw said:
I think I can just about follow how the RL setup works, and whilst I might not want it myself, I can see how it might be desireable to some.
But ..... I can see how it works when "under power".
Does it have any effect though when you hit a saturated road surface, and all you're doing is keeping a constant throttle, I guess in effect "aquaplaning"?
That's when, in my own experience, everything goes very "light" and you just know, inside, thzt your really don't have full control.
For me at that point, it's all "fingertips and eggshells" until you feel the car settle back down to a reasonable level of grip.
Can't quite see how any form of TC helps at that point, until of course you go to apply power ...
From what I understand the RaceLogic system is a basic form of TC which will either cut fuel or cut spark when it detects that one or more wheels are spinning at different speeds. I know some of the more advanced systems can apply power and brake individual wheels. But ..... I can see how it works when "under power".
Does it have any effect though when you hit a saturated road surface, and all you're doing is keeping a constant throttle, I guess in effect "aquaplaning"?
That's when, in my own experience, everything goes very "light" and you just know, inside, thzt your really don't have full control.
For me at that point, it's all "fingertips and eggshells" until you feel the car settle back down to a reasonable level of grip.
Can't quite see how any form of TC helps at that point, until of course you go to apply power ...
I am curious as to how much the RL system would help the driver out in an aquaplaning situation which as I understand it the main cause of all the horrific pictures that get posed up every year of TVRs that are smashed to pieces having spun on the motorway.
Very simply, TC can't create grip where there is none.
Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
From reading all of the responses, I would deduce that the better investment would be professional high performance driving instruction (on track). The installation costs are nil, and you can move it to the next vehicle when you opt to buy a different TVR. The "install" might be more fun for you too.
B.
B.
fonoq35 said:
I had my racelogic system fitted by steve heath and he was good.
I would describe the system as helpful in conjunction with some driver training and a suitably set up suspension.
What do you think of it? Have you had a chance to test it out yet ie. give it a bootfull on a wet roundabout? I would describe the system as helpful in conjunction with some driver training and a suitably set up suspension.
I did the Rockingham wet grip day this year, I would love to see how a vehicle with this system fitted performs on the various surfaces.
dvs_dave said:
Very simply, TC can't create grip where there is none.
Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
This 100% Or Don't use it over the winter Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
This sort of TC can't help in aquaplane situations as this would require a system which can also control the brakes.
I ditch the tyres after they are under 4mm. Always have done and it gives a small comfort zone.
If anyone does fit TC then it's important to find the suitable environment in which to learn how it actually works. 100% TC on these types of systems tends to be a little over aggressive and actually more likely to create the kind of situation you are looking to avoid. It can also leave you stranded in the middle of junctions.
If your system can be bespoke programmed then you can find the setting that works perfectly for your personal skill level and result in a brilliant and smart little safety net that isn't going to interfere or surprise you.
I ditch the tyres after they are under 4mm. Always have done and it gives a small comfort zone.
If anyone does fit TC then it's important to find the suitable environment in which to learn how it actually works. 100% TC on these types of systems tends to be a little over aggressive and actually more likely to create the kind of situation you are looking to avoid. It can also leave you stranded in the middle of junctions.
If your system can be bespoke programmed then you can find the setting that works perfectly for your personal skill level and result in a brilliant and smart little safety net that isn't going to interfere or surprise you.
When I fit TC I download a map based on the settings I use on my Wedge running road tyres. This allows sufficient wheel spin for maximum grip in the dry and zero wheel spin in the wet. This means that if the road conditions change or you are too heavy with the right foot (or don't react quickly enough) it will take the power off until the wheel stops spinning. Because of the speed of reaction that this takes it is like driving with the wheels never spinning up.
As for being stranded at junctions.... never experienced that with the Racelogic system as it is running close loop. If the wheel stops spinning more power is applied. If the wheel starts to spin above the set limit, power is reduced. In other words, the car will go as fast as the grip allows.
The trick is working out when the difference in wheel speeds is going round a corner, going in a straight line, the result of LSD operation and so on. This is why the Racelogic system is so good as it allows the fine tuning down a very low level if necessary which many built in TC systems don't.
Interestingly enough the Racelogic system is used on many hypercars such as the Gumbert instead of using the ECU based systems.
As most TVR accidents seem to be caused by driver error/inexperience caused by too much throttle for the conditions, it is very good insurance policy.
It does help with aquaplaning by preventing the wheels from spinning up and thus keeping them stable which is about the best thing you can do in the circumstances. No sudden changes is the key.
As for being stranded at junctions.... never experienced that with the Racelogic system as it is running close loop. If the wheel stops spinning more power is applied. If the wheel starts to spin above the set limit, power is reduced. In other words, the car will go as fast as the grip allows.
The trick is working out when the difference in wheel speeds is going round a corner, going in a straight line, the result of LSD operation and so on. This is why the Racelogic system is so good as it allows the fine tuning down a very low level if necessary which many built in TC systems don't.
Interestingly enough the Racelogic system is used on many hypercars such as the Gumbert instead of using the ECU based systems.
As most TVR accidents seem to be caused by driver error/inexperience caused by too much throttle for the conditions, it is very good insurance policy.
It does help with aquaplaning by preventing the wheels from spinning up and thus keeping them stable which is about the best thing you can do in the circumstances. No sudden changes is the key.
shpub said:
When I fit TC I download a map based on the settings I use on my Wedge running road tyres. This allows sufficient wheel spin for maximum grip in the dry and zero wheel spin in the wet. This means that if the road conditions change or you are too heavy with the right foot (or don't react quickly enough) it will take the power off until the wheel stops spinning. Because of the speed of reaction that this takes it is like driving with the wheels never spinning up.
As for being stranded at junctions.... never experienced that with the Racelogic system as it is running close loop. If the wheel stops spinning more power is applied. If the wheel starts to spin above the set limit, power is reduced. In other words, the car will go as fast as the grip allows.
The trick is working out when the difference in wheel speeds is going round a corner, going in a straight line, the result of LSD operation and so on. This is why the Racelogic system is so good as it allows the fine tuning down a very low level if necessary which many built in TC systems don't.
Interestingly enough the Racelogic system is used on many hypercars such as the Gumbert instead of using the ECU based systems.
As most TVR accidents seem to be caused by driver error/inexperience caused by too much throttle for the conditions, it is very good insurance policy.
It does help with aquaplaning by preventing the wheels from spinning up and thus keeping them stable which is about the best thing you can do in the circumstances. No sudden changes is the key.
I've seen people have systems fitted and not had a base map or a map that is relevant to their car. Which is slightly worrying. Likewise when people don't go and test appropriately how the new system works.As for being stranded at junctions.... never experienced that with the Racelogic system as it is running close loop. If the wheel stops spinning more power is applied. If the wheel starts to spin above the set limit, power is reduced. In other words, the car will go as fast as the grip allows.
The trick is working out when the difference in wheel speeds is going round a corner, going in a straight line, the result of LSD operation and so on. This is why the Racelogic system is so good as it allows the fine tuning down a very low level if necessary which many built in TC systems don't.
Interestingly enough the Racelogic system is used on many hypercars such as the Gumbert instead of using the ECU based systems.
As most TVR accidents seem to be caused by driver error/inexperience caused by too much throttle for the conditions, it is very good insurance policy.
It does help with aquaplaning by preventing the wheels from spinning up and thus keeping them stable which is about the best thing you can do in the circumstances. No sudden changes is the key.
The issue when pulling out can tend to be triggered by most systems not being active below a certain speed, like 15 or 20 mph so you pull out swiftly, get a little bit of slip as you were expecting and then whallop it shuts down becuase you've left TC dialled in 100%.
I think that where it is most valuable is that I still see so many Tiv drivers flooring it when they are not pointing straight. A bad habit I guess from years of driving other types of cars and TC has to be a massive improvement on saving those moments.
I don't know why so many people are against drivers' aides, Wheeler never fitted them because of cost rather than the macho stance the PR department gave out. They certainly produced one model with TC sensors all set up and ready for the ECU.
If a simple electronic bit of kit can stop your car from being wrecked on that silly ocassion when you make a mistake then I think it's money very well spent.
dvs_dave said:
Very simply, TC can't create grip where there is none.
Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
100% Agree (dave talking on the Aquaplaning part of the question).Just ensure that you have good quality tires on with plenty of tread. In the winter months consider investing in some winter tyres. I did and the cold weather performance and safety is considerably better than the summers in the cold and wet.
Maximising the grip your car has with the road through appropriate tyre choice will be far more effective than ANY electronic gizmo ever will be. Fact!
If you need TC DON'T get a TVR! SIMPLES.
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