tvr chimaera 400 supercharged or LS1 swap???
Discussion
hi guys need ur help was thinking to get my chimaera supercharged but than i checked online about the LS1 engine and it seems pretty neat.what do u think about it?????how much modification will i have to do?this engine is pretty cheap comapre to the supercharger kit which will give only an extra 100hp.LS1 out of the boxe got 350hp and a lot of mods are possible.can i use the 6 speed corvette trans???tks for ur hlp
I'm sure a lot of the guys will be along soon to talk tech points - but one of the fundamental things to think about IMO is insurance implications...
I don't know whether there is much difference between the number of companies that will cover:
1. The OE engine supercharged, or
2. A totally different engine of increased displacement.
I don't know how much difference these 2 will make - especially re: your personal situation - but that is the first place I would start..?
HTH
Dom
I don't know whether there is much difference between the number of companies that will cover:
1. The OE engine supercharged, or
2. A totally different engine of increased displacement.
I don't know how much difference these 2 will make - especially re: your personal situation - but that is the first place I would start..?
HTH
Dom
I'd take another look at the costs as yes an LS1 can be had for a few grand, however the cost of getting it to fit, new exhaust, wiring, mounts, gearbox, propshaft, power steering connections, coolant connections etc etc.
It all mounts up I believe Jellison did it 1st for around 12K admittedly to a high standard with a lot of new parts but I can't see you getting much change out of 6K with doing all the spannering yourself and that assuming you have a welder, access to a lathe etc to get all the little bits made up.
It all mounts up I believe Jellison did it 1st for around 12K admittedly to a high standard with a lot of new parts but I can't see you getting much change out of 6K with doing all the spannering yourself and that assuming you have a welder, access to a lathe etc to get all the little bits made up.
350Matt said:
I'd take another look at the costs as yes an LS1 can be had for a few grand, however the cost of getting it to fit, new exhaust, wiring, mounts, gearbox, propshaft, power steering connections, coolant connections etc etc.
It all mounts up I believe Jellison did it 1st for around 12K admittedly to a high standard with a lot of new parts but I can't see you getting much change out of 6K with doing all the spannering yourself and that assuming you have a welder, access to a lathe etc to get all the little bits made up.
Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!It all mounts up I believe Jellison did it 1st for around 12K admittedly to a high standard with a lot of new parts but I can't see you getting much change out of 6K with doing all the spannering yourself and that assuming you have a welder, access to a lathe etc to get all the little bits made up.
JR said:
...
Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
It was a new engine.Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
http://www.freewebs.com/faster-tvr/
RichardD said:
JR said:
...
Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
It was a new engine.Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
http://www.freewebs.com/faster-tvr/
JR said:
RichardD said:
JR said:
...
Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
It was a new engine.Just to add, to include all of the parts that Matt mentions Jelly's cost was well over £15K IIRC, and he used a 2nd hand engine!
http://www.freewebs.com/faster-tvr/
faster-tvr said:
"Sourced a New Z06 LS6 (from the 02 – 04 spec C5 Corvette) with 85mm MAF not the pre 02 Z06 that had the 75mm one."
I do believe that BoostedCerb sourced his used LS1 engine (and T56), from Cleveland PickAPart.chimaera1855 said:
tks for all ur help.i live in malaysia so here workmanship is pretty cheap and they are really good at swaping engine.what i really want to know is what is the performance of a 400sc compare to a no mod LS1????
Have a look at the Power web site. Remember that the RV8 is 50s technology whereas the LS is 90s and a much larger cc. Purely from an engine capability the LS will win hands down. For the Griff/Chim though the implications for the car mean that many do not think it wise to put so much power and torque through the chassis without significant modifications.You'll get all sorts of opinions on here but no-one really knows your circumstances or aspirations. Live your dream. J
chimaera1855 said:
hi guys need ur help was thinking to get my chimaera supercharged but than i checked online about the LS1 engine and it seems pretty neat.what do u think about it?????how much modification will i have to do?this engine is pretty cheap comapre to the supercharger kit which will give only an extra 100hp.LS1 out of the boxe got 350hp and a lot of mods are possible.can i use the 6 speed corvette trans???tks for ur hlp
Its worth checking out Jellisons thread when he upgraded his Chim, he used an LS6 and TKO 600. The LS6 is a better speced LS1 with a more radical cam profile and better cyclinder heads.Just wanted to add if you are sourcing the engine yourself this info might be useful(don't know how much you already know):
For starters the LS1 has been used in several different cars and there are several different related engine
LS1 engine used in:
C5 corvette : 1997-2004
F-Body* : 1998-2002
Pontiac GTO : 2004 only (see also Holden Monaro! might be cheaper shipping from Aus to Malay)
- (F-body is US term for the Pontiac Trans Am and gen 4(the [b]old[b/] one) Chevrolet Camaro, they are almost identical mechanically but have different bodies as far as engines/trans goes they are identical)
All the engines were installed with either 4 speed Auto or 6 Speed Manual
Manual: T56*
Auto: 4L60E (or 4L80E)
- The Corvette trans setup was a different to the F-body and GTO. The corvette gearbox is mounted on the rear axle via a torque tube. The F-body and GTO have a traditional trans mounted behind engine via bell-housing.
c5 corvette Z06 : 2001-2004
CTS-V: 2004-2005
All LS6 cars have manual gearbox, Z06 is same as before, rear mounted trans. CTS-V has same type of setup as f-body/GTO.
LS2 used
Corvette C6 : 2005-2008
GTO : 2005-2006
CTS-V : 2005-2007
Some trucks*
- Couple of background notes: All "LS" style engines are based on a block design that have exactly the same outside dimensions.
Big point2 - The LS engines are used in Trucks as well as cars, the cars tend to sell at a premium, where as the trucks are sold more to cost. This is important because most LS truck engines have an Iron block where as all car LS car engines only use an Aluminum block. As I have said the block design is the same for both the Iron and Aluminum. (The Aluminum block has iron liners, the Iron block has no liners)
Small point -
Engine displacements:
Aluminum LS Engines comes in the following sizes 5.3L (truck only), 5.7L, 6.0L, 6.2L and 7L.
Iron block engines come in the following sizes 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L.
I have brought up these points because 1 LS1 engines have been EOL'ed for 6 years so finding mint low milage used one is going to be hard, 2 it is easier to find and LS2 now but if you are looking sans transmission it is poosible that you could find someone selling off a 6L iron block engine as an LS2, it is worth being able to understand what is out there. There are simply allot more iron block engines out there than Aluminium ones, the iron block engines are much cheaper and about 40kg heavier.
Here are some GM "LS engine type" codes for engines with Aluminum engine blocks:
LS1 LS2 LS3 LS4 LS6 LS7 LS9 LSA L76 L92 L99
Here are some GM "LS engine type" codes for engines with Iron engine blocks:
LQ4 LQ9 LR4 LR7 and many more
Hope this helps...
The experience opinion here will say just get the supercharger upgrade. The LS1 conversion will cost more even though labour might be cheaper but there is allot to change and upgrade...
The Chim with an LS1 and T5 gearbox will likely (an LS2 will definitely) kill the transmission with the torque if you use it "hard". The TKO 600 gearbox is the answer but this adds cost.
The LS1 really isn't that easy to find cheaply and in vgood condition. There are allot of engines which will be advertised "LS1 LS2 LR4 LQ4 LQ9 V8" on ebay and other places which are truck engines which are very cheap but they aren't "LS1"s though they are LS engines (see my previous post)...
The easiest way is to just get an LS2 and TKO, you really wont be upgrading the engine any time soon but personally I would suggest something different:
Instead of the LS1/LS2, get a 5.3 LS motor (which would be the GM engine code "L33"), get car ancillaries and install a more radical cam.
There are a few reasons I would chose a 5.3 over an LS1 or Ls2:
because you will find them newer and cheaper to get than LS1s (LS2s are even more expensive)
because an LS2 will likely destroy the T5 gearbox because of how much torque it has low down...
because the cam'ed 5.3l will be gentler on the transmission, will still pull better than the Rover from Low revs, but with the cam profile will keep pulling harder long after the rover would have tailed off needing you to change gear.
I dont think there are that many LS1s left for sale in good condition and they have a big price premium, everyone is looking for an LS1. The LS2 is newer, more plentiful and more expensive again. They are both great engines in oem setup, with brutal torque from low revs, but they are setup for American tastes, which means the cam profiles make the engine produce all the torque low down, so the Chimera with the an oem spec LS1 or LS2 might feel like its running out of breath past 5k rpm, but that is probably much like the Rover V8 at the moment anyway...
An LS2 will still blow your mind but will take the gearbox, diff, and drive shafts with along you to that nirvana...
An LS1 would be like that to a lesser degree.
The normal advice is that the car will need upgrades to brakes and suspension, which it would need even if just using the supercharger upgrade.
In terms of buying this means:
Buy: a 5.3L Aluminium LS engine (preferably bought as a low mile "Long block" with f-body oil pan and #799 heads)
Buy: complete LS2 intake (used low mile - intake, injectors, fuel rails, MAP - should be quite cheap, I got mine for like $250 inc shipping so know from experience they can be bought cheap)
Buy: 90mm mechanical throttle body (all recent GM cars are electronic)
Buy: "Cheater" style/mild custom cam - would also be worth upgrading valve springs and push rods at same time
Buy: Corvette/F-body/G8 or custom ancillaries (or go electric water pump, electric PS, no AC and a big Alternator, you might need a starter too)
Buy: Emerald ECU setup + all required sensors at a minimum (or whatever ECU your best local tuning house recommends, Mega Squirt 3 worth considering)
This relies on the following
get rid of original engine/ecu/engine harness
Keep T5 gearbox - T56 will not fit, corvette t56 require completely different installation, TKO is possible but not that cheap
local made engine harness
local tuner with good skill set able to learn engine characteristics and tune on the fly or already has experience
Just so you know I have a custom speced LS3 and TKO which are on their way to get put into a Cerbera in the next few months...
The Chim with an LS1 and T5 gearbox will likely (an LS2 will definitely) kill the transmission with the torque if you use it "hard". The TKO 600 gearbox is the answer but this adds cost.
The LS1 really isn't that easy to find cheaply and in vgood condition. There are allot of engines which will be advertised "LS1 LS2 LR4 LQ4 LQ9 V8" on ebay and other places which are truck engines which are very cheap but they aren't "LS1"s though they are LS engines (see my previous post)...
The easiest way is to just get an LS2 and TKO, you really wont be upgrading the engine any time soon but personally I would suggest something different:
Instead of the LS1/LS2, get a 5.3 LS motor (which would be the GM engine code "L33"), get car ancillaries and install a more radical cam.
There are a few reasons I would chose a 5.3 over an LS1 or Ls2:
because you will find them newer and cheaper to get than LS1s (LS2s are even more expensive)
because an LS2 will likely destroy the T5 gearbox because of how much torque it has low down...
because the cam'ed 5.3l will be gentler on the transmission, will still pull better than the Rover from Low revs, but with the cam profile will keep pulling harder long after the rover would have tailed off needing you to change gear.
I dont think there are that many LS1s left for sale in good condition and they have a big price premium, everyone is looking for an LS1. The LS2 is newer, more plentiful and more expensive again. They are both great engines in oem setup, with brutal torque from low revs, but they are setup for American tastes, which means the cam profiles make the engine produce all the torque low down, so the Chimera with the an oem spec LS1 or LS2 might feel like its running out of breath past 5k rpm, but that is probably much like the Rover V8 at the moment anyway...
An LS2 will still blow your mind but will take the gearbox, diff, and drive shafts with along you to that nirvana...
An LS1 would be like that to a lesser degree.The normal advice is that the car will need upgrades to brakes and suspension, which it would need even if just using the supercharger upgrade.
In terms of buying this means:
Buy: a 5.3L Aluminium LS engine (preferably bought as a low mile "Long block" with f-body oil pan and #799 heads)
Buy: complete LS2 intake (used low mile - intake, injectors, fuel rails, MAP - should be quite cheap, I got mine for like $250 inc shipping so know from experience they can be bought cheap)
Buy: 90mm mechanical throttle body (all recent GM cars are electronic)
Buy: "Cheater" style/mild custom cam - would also be worth upgrading valve springs and push rods at same time
Buy: Corvette/F-body/G8 or custom ancillaries (or go electric water pump, electric PS, no AC and a big Alternator, you might need a starter too)
Buy: Emerald ECU setup + all required sensors at a minimum (or whatever ECU your best local tuning house recommends, Mega Squirt 3 worth considering)
This relies on the following
get rid of original engine/ecu/engine harness
Keep T5 gearbox - T56 will not fit, corvette t56 require completely different installation, TKO is possible but not that cheap
local made engine harness
local tuner with good skill set able to learn engine characteristics and tune on the fly or already has experience
Just so you know I have a custom speced LS3 and TKO which are on their way to get put into a Cerbera in the next few months...
yes i finally made up my mind.ahaha sc power has a really good discount price for their kit.the problem is my car got a/c so they are working on a kit for my car.shall be ready by next month.really cant wait to show to those japs so call sport cars around what a real sport car is.ahahhaV8 power
chimaera1855 said:
yes i finally made up my mind.ahaha sc power has a really good discount price for their kit.the problem is my car got a/c so they are working on a kit for my car.shall be ready by next month.really cant wait to show to those japs so call sport cars around what a real sport car is.ahahhaV8 power
Good stuff - get some video 
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