Which 4.0L to 5.0L RV8 Upgrade to go for?

[4535jacks]

Hi all,
I'm looking at upgrading my 4.0 to a 5.0, the engines already done 70k miles. the two options are:

1)TVR Power's limited edition 4.0 to 5.0 Upgrade (using my engine) see link below:

http://www.tvrpower.co.uk/upgrades/4045-50-litre-u...

2) V8 Development's new 5.0 stage III engine with a fastroad or stealth cam and enlarged induction and chipped.

The V8 developments engine is more expensive (about 1-1.5k) but is a brand new engine. They reckon it'll produce about 330bhp, which is a lot!!

Has anyone had the TVR power upgrade and know what bhp and torque you can expect from it?

In terms of longevity, is it best to go for a brand new engine or won't there be much difference with the TVR Power Upgrade even though its using component from my 70k engine?

I'm looking at greatest power upgrade, engine longevity (will a new engine last longer than a rebuilt upgraded engine) and any effects it will have on car value (i.e. will a car with a brand new engine be worth more than one that has a rebuilt upgraded engine?)?

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks

Jacko

[Markh]

4535jacks said:

Hi all,
I'm looking at upgrading my 4.0 to a 5.0, the engines already done 70k miles. the two options are:

1)TVR Power's limited edition 4.0 to 5.0 Upgrade (using my engine) see link below:

http://www.tvrpower.co.uk/upgrades/4045-50-litre-u...

2) V8 Development's new 5.0 stage III engine with a fastroad or stealth cam and enlarged induction and chipped.

The V8 developments engine is more expensive (about 1-1.5k) but is a brand new engine. They reckon it'll produce about 330bhp, which is a lot!!

Has anyone had the TVR power upgrade and know what bhp and torque you can expect from it?

In terms of longevity, is it best to go for a brand new engine or won't there be much difference with the TVR Power Upgrade even though its using component from my 70k engine?

I'm looking at greatest power upgrade, engine longevity (will a new engine last longer than a rebuilt upgraded engine) and any effects it will have on car value (i.e. will a car with a brand new engine be worth more than one that has a rebuilt upgraded engine?)?

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks

Jacko

For me there is only one choice, it has to be Jamie Rogers at Castle Race Engines, did a fantastic job on mine

[4535jacks]

Does Jamie do new engines to spec or just upgrade existing engines?

[gifdy]

Funnily enough I've been looking at exactly the same thing. Despite the higher cost I have (nearly)decided on the V8D short engine. I've put off going to 5.0L in the past because I was worried about losing responsiveness and just ending up with a bunch of extra low end torque that I couldn't use. I really like the way my 4.0L revs and wanted to keep that characteristic as much as possible.

If my (amateur) research is correct then the 'standard' engines have 94mm bore and stroke is 71mm for 4.0L, 77mm for 4.3L , 82mm for 4.6L and 90mm for 5.0L. The V8D 5.0L has a 97mm bore so the stroke would be 86mm. I'm hoping this and a well chosen cam will help keep some of the 4.0L character.

Then again I have little experience of this so above may be nonsense. I'd also be interested in the approach Castle take. Is that the same guy who used to work at Power ? If so I think he rebuilt my current engine a few years back - strong engine & hasn't missed a beat.

[The Lukas]

If it has not already been suggested - how about a supercharger?

[deanogriff]

Just seen your thread, from someone who has just completed an SC Power Supercharger conversion my advise would be to test drive all the other choices first and then give the boys at SC Power a call and book a flight in their SC400, you will be blown away!!! I have an SC500 Griffith, but although it has big big power and torque, the smaller 4.0 litre cars have the advantage that the supercharger will rev faster than the bigger motors, it will be miles quicker than a stock 500, also there is no whistle or annoying whining from these superchargers.

[chimaera1855]

this is what i want and need to hear

[daxtojeiro]

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

[slideways]

daxtojeiro said:

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

I was advised that doing this wasn't the best option because the compression ratio would be too high, and with such a long throw on the crank wouldn't like to rev? maybe i'm getting my wires crossed

Edited by slideways on Sunday 15th August 23:58

[Bluebottle]

slideways said:

daxtojeiro said:

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

I was advised that doing this wasn't the best option because the compression ratio would be too high, and with such a long throw on the crank wouldn't like to rev? maybe i'm getting my wires crossed

Edited by slideways on Sunday 15th August 23:58

Ditto, John Eales told me that the 5.4 had too long a crank throw for F.I. plus it wont spin up as quick cos of it. In his opinion, the 5.2 (5.15 in reality) was the optimum size for FI.

Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 16th August 13:06

[daxtojeiro]

Bluebottle said:

slideways said:

daxtojeiro said:

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

I was advised that doing this wasn't the best option because the compression ratio would be too high, and with such a long throw on the crank wouldn't like to rev? maybe i'm getting my wires crossed

Edited by slideways on Sunday 15th August 23:58

Ditto, John Eales told me that the 5.4 had too long a crank throw for F.I. plus it wont spin up as quick cos of it. In his opinion, the 5.2 (5.15 in reality) was the optimum size for FI.

Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 16th August 13:06

I never understand how people can say that a smaller engine doesnt rev like a larger one. If a larger engine is quicker then surely that means it spins up at a faster rate other wise it wouldnt be quicker? At the end of the day its the rate of change in rpm that moves the car forward quicker, which means it must spin up quicker surely?

Having driven one of Robs 5.5L engines that was dynoed at 375BHP by Jooles I can say it is much much quicker than my 5.0L, which must mean it spins up quicker? If not then I really have no idea why it was quicker.

As long as the engine is built strong enough then it is just as suitable for FI as any smaller engine, the compression ratio isnt dependant on engine size either, you can have a low compression large engine just the same as a smaller engine.

At the end of the day bigger has to be best, and Im going to fit the biggest I can afford and then fit a SC to it

Phil

[slideways]

daxtojeiro said:

Bluebottle said:

slideways said:

daxtojeiro said:

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

I was advised that doing this wasn't the best option because the compression ratio would be too high, and with such a long throw on the crank wouldn't like to rev? maybe i'm getting my wires crossed

Edited by slideways on Sunday 15th August 23:58

Ditto, John Eales told me that the 5.4 had too long a crank throw for F.I. plus it wont spin up as quick cos of it. In his opinion, the 5.2 (5.15 in reality) was the optimum size for FI.

Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 16th August 13:06

I never understand how people can say that a smaller engine doesnt rev like a larger one. If a larger engine is quicker then surely that means it spins up at a faster rate other wise it wouldnt be quicker? At the end of the day its the rate of change in rpm that moves the car forward quicker, which means it must spin up quicker surely?

Having driven one of Robs 5.5L engines that was dynoed at 375BHP by Jooles I can say it is much much quicker than my 5.0L, which must mean it spins up quicker? If not then I really have no idea why it was quicker.

As long as the engine is built strong enough then it is just as suitable for FI as any smaller engine, the compression ratio isnt dependant on engine size either, you can have a low compression large engine just the same as a smaller engine.

At the end of the day bigger has to be best, and Im going to fit the biggest I can afford and then fit a SC to it

Phil

I'm no rocket scientist so can't give you the specific's! I'm just repeating what i was told when considering which engine to go for,and i was looking at a 5.5 crank originally, have settled for a 4.6 crank with 96mm tophat bore which I have been told is a 4.8 with bespoke rods,pistons and cam,and a pair of GT28RS turbos.
To give a low compression engine so easy to drive when pottering around town when off boost.when on boost it should be a giggle to say the least
also I was informed by upping the boost you gain in the equivalent in cc's,manage the heat properly and your laughing.

Slideways

[Bluebottle]

Its all to do with mass and moments of inertia and other st i have no clew about after several pints :hick:...the bigger the bore = bigger piston etc = more mass and the further it has to travel (longer the crank throw the further the piston and con rod have to travel per revolution) the slower it will be to spin up...I'm no expert but i know J.E. has had many years of experience of finding the right balance of the two for the optimum engine, for both NA and FI applications and there will be difference between the two. I trust his judgement in such matters.

[topsparks]

daxtojeiro said:

Bluebottle said:

slideways said:

daxtojeiro said:

Best option has to be fit the biggest engine you can and then fit the SC charger. Thats what Im going to do. Get a 5.4 from V8D and then get a blower for it

Why mess with the 5.0L when the 5.4 is only a little more expensive?

Phil

I was advised that doing this wasn't the best option because the compression ratio would be too high, and with such a long throw on the crank wouldn't like to rev? maybe i'm getting my wires crossed

Edited by slideways on Sunday 15th August 23:58

Ditto, John Eales told me that the 5.4 had too long a crank throw for F.I. plus it wont spin up as quick cos of it. In his opinion, the 5.2 (5.15 in reality) was the optimum size for FI.

Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 16th August 13:06

I never understand how people can say that a smaller engine doesnt rev like a larger one. If a larger engine is quicker then surely that means it spins up at a faster rate other wise it wouldnt be quicker? At the end of the day its the rate of change in rpm that moves the car forward quicker, which means it must spin up quicker surely?

Having driven one of Robs 5.5L engines that was dynoed at 375BHP by Jooles I can say it is much much quicker than my 5.0L, which must mean it spins up quicker? If not then I really have no idea why it was quicker.

As long as the engine is built strong enough then it is just as suitable for FI as any smaller engine, the compression ratio isnt dependant on engine size either, you can have a low compression large engine just the same as a smaller engine.

At the end of the day bigger has to be best, and Im going to fit the biggest I can afford and then fit a SC to it

Phil

Was it a blue one by any chance?

Edited by topsparks on Monday 16th August 22:00

[dbv8]

If my car could accelerate as fast as my engine could 'spin up' i would be one happy drag racer

[slideways]

dbv8 said:

If my car could accelerate as fast as my engine could 'spin up' i would be one happy drag racer

How's your project coming along Derek?

[dbv8]

slideways said:

dbv8 said:

If my car could accelerate as fast as my engine could 'spin up' i would be one happy drag racer

How's your project coming along Derek?

All i managed to do at the weekend was line my trans tunnel with heat shielding and clean up some engine ancilliaries. Its going very slow but i now know all events are off the radar for this year.
The engines waiting for its new ceramic coated forged pistons to be delivered, then a full balance.
The heads are going to get bronze guides and port work.
A special grind nitrous cam is courtesy of Kent.

I am thinking of opening the rear arches as much as possible and maybe a trick body mod at the front for the exhaust (shhhh). A full respray would be nice but maybe the rat look will be on the cards just for next year.
I have the raceproved driveshafts fitted but am still trying to save for the CTS gearbox but my job isnt certain long term. Same old story as far as budget goes!

[slideways]

dbv8 said:

slideways said:

dbv8 said:

If my car could accelerate as fast as my engine could 'spin up' i would be one happy drag racer

How's your project coming along Derek?

All i managed to do at the weekend was line my trans tunnel with heat shielding and clean up some engine ancilliaries. Its going very slow but i now know all events are off the radar for this year.
The engines waiting for its new ceramic coated forged pistons to be delivered, then a full balance.
The heads are going to get bronze guides and port work.
A special grind nitrous cam is courtesy of Kent.

I am thinking of opening the rear arches as much as possible and maybe a trick body mod at the front for the exhaust (shhhh). A full respray would be nice but maybe the rat look will be on the cards just for next year.
I have the raceproved driveshafts fitted but am still trying to save for the CTS gearbox but my job isnt certain long term. Same old story as far as budget goes!

like these?
Ceramic coated Ross pistons

[dbv8]

I guess
Is that the 7:1 turbo engine ive seen?

[slideways]

dbv8 said:

I guess
Is that the 7:1 turbo engine ive seen?

To be honest i don't know the exact ratio i do know its low