AIr Filters Flat Vs Cylindrical
Discussion
My Griffith originally came with the cylindrical filter. Recently when doing some work around that area I noticed my nosecone ( being a new one after a prang 5 years back) has the fixing to allow the boxed in Flat type one.
Now I was wondering if there was any testing on this as TVR obviously changed to the flat one which is boxed in. I can see 2 possible benefits.
1, being no or a lot less heat coming back from the engine/Ypiece.
2, Being that you are going to get cleaner cool air rammed in through the filter aperture wheras your getting air from all of the place with the cylindrical one.
Would it be a good idea to change it if I think the benefits may improve cleaner air flow into the engine? Do people agree disagree with my thoughts?
TIA
BB
Now I was wondering if there was any testing on this as TVR obviously changed to the flat one which is boxed in. I can see 2 possible benefits.
1, being no or a lot less heat coming back from the engine/Ypiece.
2, Being that you are going to get cleaner cool air rammed in through the filter aperture wheras your getting air from all of the place with the cylindrical one.
Would it be a good idea to change it if I think the benefits may improve cleaner air flow into the engine? Do people agree disagree with my thoughts?
TIA
BB
Seems to me that the flat one is higher up and you have to pass the air in a convoluted fashion over the rad.
Shorter larger pipe with less bends is going to work better, balance that with stuffing cold stuff in and you are on a winner. Note MikeyV's old comments about problems sealing the flat K&N (he was preferring the piperx in that form not cylindrical IIRC). Give me a shout if you fancy trying something completely different
Shorter larger pipe with less bends is going to work better, balance that with stuffing cold stuff in and you are on a winner. Note MikeyV's old comments about problems sealing the flat K&N (he was preferring the piperx in that form not cylindrical IIRC). Give me a shout if you fancy trying something completely different
spend said:
Seems to me that the flat one is higher up and you have to pass the air in a convoluted fashion over the rad.
Shorter larger pipe with less bends is going to work better, balance that with stuffing cold stuff in and you are on a winner. Note MikeyV's old comments about problems sealing the flat K&N (he was preferring the piperx in that form not cylindrical IIRC). Give me a shout if you fancy trying something completely different
My Cylindrical one sits in exactly the same place as the flat one would just above to rectangular cut outs that the air is supposed to come up through. I may have a go at making a box to fit a flat one in and making a scoop to push the air up into it.Shorter larger pipe with less bends is going to work better, balance that with stuffing cold stuff in and you are on a winner. Note MikeyV's old comments about problems sealing the flat K&N (he was preferring the piperx in that form not cylindrical IIRC). Give me a shout if you fancy trying something completely different
I am guessing that there are no scoops on any others but what really forces the air up there.... seems to me it could be improved upon whether you are using cylindrical or flat.
BB
I have my original airbox if you need to borrow that for a template or dimensions Simon. Let me know.
The aluminium top exiting item that I made will be coming out at some point as I have plans for making a wooden plug. It'll incorporate a better shape for air passage and make greater use of the space available. I'll take a casting of the plug and knock one up from GRP or CF.
The aluminium top exiting item that I made will be coming out at some point as I have plans for making a wooden plug. It'll incorporate a better shape for air passage and make greater use of the space available. I'll take a casting of the plug and knock one up from GRP or CF.
I've done a lot of testing on grif filtration / routing / air temps etc and the one thing I can say is the whole lot is bloody pathetic! but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway.
If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway. If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
Probably not as good as Trackcars but this is my modified intake;
This has 2no. cone filters on the "F" branch and it goes into the inner wing (see position of the cover plate). I have enlarged the hole to the inner wing in the nose cone area and may in the future fit a small air scoop to help direct some more air in that direction, but at the moment its drawing enough air to feed the s/c on full boost. One advantage of this routing is that most of it is NOT in the hot engine bay
This has 2no. cone filters on the "F" branch and it goes into the inner wing (see position of the cover plate). I have enlarged the hole to the inner wing in the nose cone area and may in the future fit a small air scoop to help direct some more air in that direction, but at the moment its drawing enough air to feed the s/c on full boost. One advantage of this routing is that most of it is NOT in the hot engine bay
That looks a really nice solution. routing through the wing was an option here but I was keen to make something that didn't involve chopping fibreglass out (you've no idea how anal some people are about keeping their cars OE when it comes to bodywork : they'll do all manner of upgrades pushing the numbers but ask them to chop a hole in the inner wing and they go ballistic lol!)
2Munkys said:
Still trying to picture this Hamish; where are the filters located? In the wheel arch?
That "F" branch sits underneath the near side light pod. If you look into the nose cone you will see that there is already an access hole into this area which I have anlarged. The pipe goes through the inner wing (hole just below the bonnet runner rebate) with an ali cover plate and gasket to create an air type seal (ish) and make it look tidy where the polished 45Deg. elbow goes through the wing. The pipe then just drops down over the inner wheel arch towards the light pod. Edited by Bluebottle on Friday 21st November 11:08
Bluebottle said:
2Munkys said:
Still trying to picture this Hamish; where are the filters located? In the wheel arch?
That "F" branch sits underneath the near side light pod. If you look into the nose cone you will see that there is already an access hole into this area which I have anlarged. The pipe goes through the inner wing (hole just below the bonnet runner rebate) with an ali cover plate and gasket to create an air type seal (ish) and make it look tidy where the polished 45Deg. elbow goes through the wing. The pipe then just drops down over the inner wheel arch towards the light pod. Edited by Bluebottle on Friday 21st November 11:08
Bluebottle said:
Probably not as good as Trackcars but this is my modified intake;
This has 2no. cone filters on the "F" branch and it goes into the inner wing (see position of the cover plate). I have enlarged the hole to the inner wing in the nose cone area and may in the future fit a small air scoop to help direct some more air in that direction, but at the moment its drawing enough air to feed the s/c on full boost. One advantage of this routing is that most of it is NOT in the hot engine bay
That looks a stunning bit of kit, well doneThis has 2no. cone filters on the "F" branch and it goes into the inner wing (see position of the cover plate). I have enlarged the hole to the inner wing in the nose cone area and may in the future fit a small air scoop to help direct some more air in that direction, but at the moment its drawing enough air to feed the s/c on full boost. One advantage of this routing is that most of it is NOT in the hot engine bay
trackcar said:
Ah I remember the other reason we didn't go into the inner wing now : the heater sucks it's air through there .. do you get any extra fuel smells in the cabin?
The initial install with a flexible induction tube and no cover plate caused intolerable cabin temps on the passenger side, but no fuel smell that I recall (a bit like when you leave the brake/clutch seals off by mistake - which suprised me with the hole being so far forward). Making that cover plate a close fit with a rubber grommet seal around it seems to have resolved any issues with engine bay fumes and temperature entering the inner wing.
E.T.A. So, if I turn my heater fan on full will I go faster? sort of F.I.
Edited by Bluebottle on Friday 21st November 17:28
trackcar said:
I've done a lot of testing on grif filtration / routing / air temps etc and the one thing I can say is the whole lot is bloody pathetic! but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway.
If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
Cheers Joo, I am just looking at improving what I think is probably not the best atm. I have no AFM running Emerald ECU pushing 297bhp but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway. If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
Maybe I could open the 2 holes that are there already and drop in a larger Cylindrical One with a scoop. Its just the 2 Elbows either end that re the other big restriction then.
Nice one Hamish so Am i thinking that they actually sit in behind the pod near that small appareture in the mouth of the car...must work ok but cant help thinking airflow into there isnt forced much either.
Bruce..Cheers for teh offer I amy take you up on that.
BB
Ballistic Banana said:
trackcar said:
I've done a lot of testing on grif filtration / routing / air temps etc and the one thing I can say is the whole lot is bloody pathetic! but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway.
If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
Cheers Joo, I am just looking at improving what I think is probably not the best atm. I have no AFM running Emerald ECU pushing 297bhp but if its fow you're after (and you have over 280genuine hp and no afm) then the panel filter is too small and it's exit from the fibreglass box too small also - junk it! I do modded airboxes to address some of the limitations of going flat panel, but by far the best option is 2 cylindrical OE filters or one very big cylindrical filter and sort the pipework out - it's actually the bends in the pipework which are the biggest problem anyway. If you're looking for big power numbers best thing is to junk everything OE and start again and the highest flowing replacement TVR filtration and pipework system is still the twin system I developed about 2 years ago, I've yet to see anything that comes close in outright flow terms, however it doesn't look very pretty and needs a lot of lagging to prevent heat build up in the twin pipes because the airspeed is halved and one pipe runs across the back of the radiator, but with sensible lagging precautions it's the best you'll get. Looks like spendie has another idea up his sleeve though which could be worth talking to him about if it's neat and simple but above all flows the air! If you don't mind it lookng not quite so pretty then twin pipe is the only way to go if you're really pushing numbers.
Maybe I could open the 2 holes that are there already and drop in a larger Cylindrical One with a scoop. Its just the 2 Elbows either end that re the other big restriction then.
Nice one Hamish so Am i thinking that they actually sit in behind the pod near that small appareture in the mouth of the car...must work ok but cant help thinking airflow into there isnt forced much either.
Bruce..Cheers for teh offer I amy take you up on that.
BB
The best results that we got with a performance type air feed on the griff was with the air box-not the cylindrical filters,however,if the cylindrical filters could be completely isolated from the underbonnet air,then it would be a better bet !!!
Using a flat k&N panel filter and an airbox in the normal place,but with an outlet at either end,as opposed to just on the n/side,gave by far the best air supply.The one(83mm) into two(75mm) pipework from the plenum provided more than enough air for 350bhp.
Darren,i altered your car before you bought it,to make the air filters easier to change,and thus swapped the panel box for two cylindrical filters.
The two into one system with the panel filter and box with twin outlets worked superbly,but had a couple of drawbacks.
1)the filter was an serious pain in the arse to get at,as the box was secured at either end,and access was very tight,particularly at the o/side end.
2)the k&N panel filter wasnt the best at giving a good seal around the airbox,and even through the smallest gap in the sealing,would suck in hot engine bay air and reduce out put on the dyno.But the K&N panel filter was definately not too small.
Just for a bit of info: we have found that two of the cylindrical filtrs as used on the griff will give at least 385bhp on unhindered airflow,as thats what i now use on the AJP.
ETA,if anyone would like my old panel airbox with twin outlets,just drop me a mail,and for the postage costs it's yours
Using a flat k&N panel filter and an airbox in the normal place,but with an outlet at either end,as opposed to just on the n/side,gave by far the best air supply.The one(83mm) into two(75mm) pipework from the plenum provided more than enough air for 350bhp.
Darren,i altered your car before you bought it,to make the air filters easier to change,and thus swapped the panel box for two cylindrical filters.
The two into one system with the panel filter and box with twin outlets worked superbly,but had a couple of drawbacks.
1)the filter was an serious pain in the arse to get at,as the box was secured at either end,and access was very tight,particularly at the o/side end.
2)the k&N panel filter wasnt the best at giving a good seal around the airbox,and even through the smallest gap in the sealing,would suck in hot engine bay air and reduce out put on the dyno.But the K&N panel filter was definately not too small.
Just for a bit of info: we have found that two of the cylindrical filtrs as used on the griff will give at least 385bhp on unhindered airflow,as thats what i now use on the AJP.
ETA,if anyone would like my old panel airbox with twin outlets,just drop me a mail,and for the postage costs it's yours
Edited by The AJP Griff on Thursday 27th November 20:36
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