If you do not want the cost and complexity of building one!
Discussion
Much as I like your car - wonderful noise/excellent performance and its clearly been put together with an eye to detail - don't you think that the price is a little high considering the economy and the way the arse has fallen out of the chim market in the last 18 months.
I also appreciate that it probably has cost you at least that much to build. I just think that you will struggle to get that money as things stand today.
This is not a criticism, just an observation and I do hope you do sell as it deserves to go to a good home I just think a little lower value might get the response you are after.
I also appreciate that it probably has cost you at least that much to build. I just think that you will struggle to get that money as things stand today.
This is not a criticism, just an observation and I do hope you do sell as it deserves to go to a good home I just think a little lower value might get the response you are after.
Someone that is in the market to do it, should see this as short cut to it - I spent over 35k on this since buying 3.5 years back. Any one wanting or expecting to get what I have done for next to nothing is just dreaming.
It is not like taking you car for an SC install and handing over 6+k.
I guy wants it in Ireland but has to sell his over there (and southern ireland is 10x worse than it is in the mainland britain). Some t
ts were going to buy it off me for well over 20 (23k) as they wanted it as a prototype - big company, but they basically have put it off for now - so I have wasted the summer with these two that woul have both paid over 20k for it!
Let me just explain a few things - this is the way a TVR should be. And in TVR had done this a few years before it all imploded they still be out there now with a viable product.
Just the larger chunks of the conversion, £5+k for a engine, £2.5k for the gbox (bellhouseing, remote shifter, clutch release, etc), £2k for a custom exhaust (stainless), wireling, loom and ecu and programming £1500 -2k, radiatior, propshaft, brackets, the list is endless but about 45 major parts on tops of the above. All cost 13k this would be and easy 20+k if at an external dealer / modifier hopeing to make a reasonable profit. Then you have to stop the thing and make it go round corners, anothe 3k on wheels, tyres, Brakes, and top notch suspension.
I.e. you buy a good late Chim (low to moderate mileage) (average of private and dealer for a 98 - 2000 car you are talking 12-13k (you could pay 10 for an old high miler or 16 from a dealer for a late 500 (like mine was)). Then add 20-21k + 3k on the stopping, cornering part then up to 24k + the car (you might get max of 4k back on the parts not being used on a good day but likley less), so say 20k + the car 32-33k.
I could pop an SC charger on a std 450 or 500 for similar number for 6k or whatever it cost but you then have to stop it and through the brakes tyres, suspension at it to so call it 9 - 10k. And then this will be a can that has alot more mechanical parts (than a crate 400bhp modern engine), has alot less revability in all the gears and has the std gearbox which is officially rated by Tremec at 300ft/lbs (and I was advised to steer well clear of as my LS6 has close to 400ft/lbs), my box is rated for 600ft/lbs. The t5 will break. The rev range of an ls6 is 6500 reline and pulls from nothing (in an rv8 it is not sensible to go over 5700 in a 500 or 6-6.1k revs in a 400 / 450) ore they will go pop).
I could have the latest Wortec blower on mine with a bit of reworking of the ancillaries and exhaust in under a week and have 550 - 600bhp! The Sc ispushing the boundaries in a 50 year old engine and a gearbox that is massively over stressed (the gearboxes can be uprated but this really costs and I doubt many SC swaps end up with the race spec internals they need).
I did it to show what could be done - and did not scrimp anywhere. All the other LS cars that hve done this properly (i.e. not cut corners with old scrapper engines or tried to make a t5 work), i.e. Brummie and Per have gone to the same above extremes as myself. You have to do this yourself as to farm it out is prohibitively expensive (to the point that you then start to think about getting something else entirely), but that is not why I did it - I did it to prove a point and to show what TVR should have done.
These things are just amazing.
I had a guy the other day say he'd have it for 18 with out even coming to see it - (it was on for the original asking price then) so I politely told him where to stick it. Christ not even sitting his arse in it!
I have had most likely 30+ people mail or call me in the last 3.5 years asking for tips on how to do this or asking if I can do them a similar conversion and they all either cry of at the cost we would have to charge to make a moderate profit (it id a bloody big job and alot of work for people in full time employment as my father and I were then - he is now retired) or if they are skillied enough go and do it themselves - but no one is handing there car over to a 3rd party to do it (Christ - it would be so out of your control the final price!!).
I will be a bit flexible on the price it is on at now but not stupidly!
The car is cheaper to run (alot) at the pumps and uses the same fule driven in the same way as a 400 - 500 and is obviously MUCH MUCH faster. Servicing is no different to normal as the engine is basically leave alone, (recommended plug change is 100k), you just do not touch it bar oil and wash the filter out occasionally.
The car could be mapped for 99 octane (why!) for 15 - 20bhp more, have 450bhp with a cam, valve springs, rocker gear and a remap for a few grand or like I say have 600bhp in no time.
Yep you have to have Large balls to drive it properly fast, but you do not have to drive it like that and indeed it in like a limo when pootling. Really SOD All Get close at 3 -4x the price.
It is not like taking you car for an SC install and handing over 6+k.
I guy wants it in Ireland but has to sell his over there (and southern ireland is 10x worse than it is in the mainland britain). Some t
ts were going to buy it off me for well over 20 (23k) as they wanted it as a prototype - big company, but they basically have put it off for now - so I have wasted the summer with these two that woul have both paid over 20k for it!Let me just explain a few things - this is the way a TVR should be. And in TVR had done this a few years before it all imploded they still be out there now with a viable product.
Just the larger chunks of the conversion, £5+k for a engine, £2.5k for the gbox (bellhouseing, remote shifter, clutch release, etc), £2k for a custom exhaust (stainless), wireling, loom and ecu and programming £1500 -2k, radiatior, propshaft, brackets, the list is endless but about 45 major parts on tops of the above. All cost 13k this would be and easy 20+k if at an external dealer / modifier hopeing to make a reasonable profit. Then you have to stop the thing and make it go round corners, anothe 3k on wheels, tyres, Brakes, and top notch suspension.
I.e. you buy a good late Chim (low to moderate mileage) (average of private and dealer for a 98 - 2000 car you are talking 12-13k (you could pay 10 for an old high miler or 16 from a dealer for a late 500 (like mine was)). Then add 20-21k + 3k on the stopping, cornering part then up to 24k + the car (you might get max of 4k back on the parts not being used on a good day but likley less), so say 20k + the car 32-33k.
I could pop an SC charger on a std 450 or 500 for similar number for 6k or whatever it cost but you then have to stop it and through the brakes tyres, suspension at it to so call it 9 - 10k. And then this will be a can that has alot more mechanical parts (than a crate 400bhp modern engine), has alot less revability in all the gears and has the std gearbox which is officially rated by Tremec at 300ft/lbs (and I was advised to steer well clear of as my LS6 has close to 400ft/lbs), my box is rated for 600ft/lbs. The t5 will break. The rev range of an ls6 is 6500 reline and pulls from nothing (in an rv8 it is not sensible to go over 5700 in a 500 or 6-6.1k revs in a 400 / 450) ore they will go pop).
I could have the latest Wortec blower on mine with a bit of reworking of the ancillaries and exhaust in under a week and have 550 - 600bhp! The Sc ispushing the boundaries in a 50 year old engine and a gearbox that is massively over stressed (the gearboxes can be uprated but this really costs and I doubt many SC swaps end up with the race spec internals they need).
I did it to show what could be done - and did not scrimp anywhere. All the other LS cars that hve done this properly (i.e. not cut corners with old scrapper engines or tried to make a t5 work), i.e. Brummie and Per have gone to the same above extremes as myself. You have to do this yourself as to farm it out is prohibitively expensive (to the point that you then start to think about getting something else entirely), but that is not why I did it - I did it to prove a point and to show what TVR should have done.
These things are just amazing.
I had a guy the other day say he'd have it for 18 with out even coming to see it - (it was on for the original asking price then) so I politely told him where to stick it. Christ not even sitting his arse in it!
I have had most likely 30+ people mail or call me in the last 3.5 years asking for tips on how to do this or asking if I can do them a similar conversion and they all either cry of at the cost we would have to charge to make a moderate profit (it id a bloody big job and alot of work for people in full time employment as my father and I were then - he is now retired) or if they are skillied enough go and do it themselves - but no one is handing there car over to a 3rd party to do it (Christ - it would be so out of your control the final price!!).
I will be a bit flexible on the price it is on at now but not stupidly!
The car is cheaper to run (alot) at the pumps and uses the same fule driven in the same way as a 400 - 500 and is obviously MUCH MUCH faster. Servicing is no different to normal as the engine is basically leave alone, (recommended plug change is 100k), you just do not touch it bar oil and wash the filter out occasionally.
The car could be mapped for 99 octane (why!) for 15 - 20bhp more, have 450bhp with a cam, valve springs, rocker gear and a remap for a few grand or like I say have 600bhp in no time.
Yep you have to have Large balls to drive it properly fast, but you do not have to drive it like that and indeed it in like a limo when pootling. Really SOD All Get close at 3 -4x the price.
jellison said:
It is not like taking you car for an SC install and handing over 6+k.
£6k+Like I said, it was more an observation/comment on the state of the market with the current economy heading downhill - not your car at all.
You'll get a 1998 Chim with 35k on the clock for less than £8,000 now without bartering from a dealer:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/741399.htm
And whilst this isn't your car it does point at how things have tumbled recently.
Good luck.
Cheers im - how much is the full total drive in drive out of the SC then?
yep 98 400 - that is very cheap even by the rest of the cars standard - you can always find the odd one well cheap.
Mine was a good few k lower than others of the same mileage and age 500s at the time, as the guy was Desperate to get cash as going though a messy divorce. My gain his lose. He was up front and said it he was not in that situation it would have a) not for sale and b) if it was alot more (i.e. what most other mileage / year cars were on for).
Off topic - have you got big brakes or wheels on the front of yours? and what was it a 400, 450? I alway thought the breaks were a deathtrap on the 2 500's i have had (but then I do drive them pretty hard). Suspension is fine for cruiing but for going quick (er no way - like a bouncy castle).
The people that have actually had a go in mine basically want it (but a) they are there having a go and asking how much to have the same conversion, or b) mates that wish they had the cash but don't or a TVR convertible is not practical for their lifestyle.
It will Eat Sag / Tuscan S. An is about as fast as the top 3 or 4 modded Cerbs I have come across (and they really cost to get to this level of performance - mind a Cerb even a std 4.5 would destry a std 500 Griff / Chim or even a Tuscan).
Cheers
Jelly
yep 98 400 - that is very cheap even by the rest of the cars standard - you can always find the odd one well cheap.
Mine was a good few k lower than others of the same mileage and age 500s at the time, as the guy was Desperate to get cash as going though a messy divorce. My gain his lose. He was up front and said it he was not in that situation it would have a) not for sale and b) if it was alot more (i.e. what most other mileage / year cars were on for).
Off topic - have you got big brakes or wheels on the front of yours? and what was it a 400, 450? I alway thought the breaks were a deathtrap on the 2 500's i have had (but then I do drive them pretty hard). Suspension is fine for cruiing but for going quick (er no way - like a bouncy castle).
The people that have actually had a go in mine basically want it (but a) they are there having a go and asking how much to have the same conversion, or b) mates that wish they had the cash but don't or a TVR convertible is not practical for their lifestyle.
It will Eat Sag / Tuscan S. An is about as fast as the top 3 or 4 modded Cerbs I have come across (and they really cost to get to this level of performance - mind a Cerb even a std 4.5 would destry a std 500 Griff / Chim or even a Tuscan).
Cheers
Jelly
jellison said:
Cheers im - how much is the full total drive in drive out of the SC then?
£5k inc VAT IIRC Although I did also change the clutch for a 5L clutch (which incidently is also a slightly lighter clutch as well) so this was on top of the £5k
jellison said:
Off topic - have you got big brakes or wheels on the front of yours? and what was it a 400, 450?
No, I don't think you need to change the brakes for 'road' driving - if you're going to track it then thats a different matter. Mine is a 400, but it had just got so...well...slow. Either that or I had got used to it.The SC route is a good basic solution if you're looking to 'freshen' up your experience of driving a Chim as it does add a considerable amount of bhp to a standard 4L, 4.5L and on a bhp per £ basis is pretty unbeatable at about (in my case) £55 per 1 bhp - however, its never going to give you the improvement that your chevy engine has done to yours.
That said, the RR results show a clear difference between an SC'd 4L and a standard 5L. You pay your money and make your choice.
jellison said:
It will Eat Sag / Tuscan S. An is about as fast as the top 3 or 4 modded Cerbs I have come across (and they really cost to get to this level of performance - mind a Cerb even a std 4.5 would destry a std 500 Griff / Chim or even a Tuscan).
Yep, I remember seeing it going round a track - can't remember which one, it was an SC Day up in the Midlands last year - very impressive, lovely sound. As I say, I hope you sell it but I'm glad I'm not trying to sell mine right at this point in time. Yours being a seriously specialised example you might get what your after.im said:
jellison said:
Yep, I remember seeing it going round a track - can't remember which one, it was an SC Day up in the Midlands last year - very impressive, lovely sound. As I say, I hope you sell it but I'm glad I'm not trying to sell mine right at this point in time. Yours being a seriously specialised example you might get what your after.
That was a real fun day. Only time been on track bar a PS pump issue at Snett in 05.Lashing down but I had the right tyres on for the conditions - great new road SP9000's, and I know the track well from lots of races there.
Taking Andy race for a Few laps.
TVR Moneypit said:
Im still giving the LS a lot of serious consideration Jelly.
Currently trying to save up £15'000 before taking the plunge with whatever it is I decide to do. I'm thinking either a properly built, supercharged RV8, putting an AJP in, or a LS.
As far as I am concerned, stage 1 of mine is done, (chassis re-furb and interior). Just stages 2 & 3 to go, (engine and brakes / suspension).
cheaper to sell yours cheap and buy mine at 19 (over all cost alot cheaper) - mine has every conceivable thing done you could ever want! It is a huge job - can you do it yourself?Currently trying to save up £15'000 before taking the plunge with whatever it is I decide to do. I'm thinking either a properly built, supercharged RV8, putting an AJP in, or a LS.
As far as I am concerned, stage 1 of mine is done, (chassis re-furb and interior). Just stages 2 & 3 to go, (engine and brakes / suspension).
Jon
When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
rev-erend said:
Jon
When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
Yep - I think people are just scared of it, or think they can do the same for alot less in some old lock up! It is on for ALOT less now than it would cost to do all the mods. Really only about 4-5 over what a dealer will ask for a late low to medium level milage car (99) like mine. So ya.When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
I will let it go for 19 to move onto the Griff200 but not a penny less - Giving it a good old run out today - to swindon and back this weekend (helping with final bits on the fixed tr6) and go watch the TR's and TVR Speed Champ at Combe tomorrow (they love me;)) - come on down.
jellison said:
rev-erend said:
Jon
When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
Yep - I think people are just scared of it, or think they can do the same for alot less in some old lock up! It is on for ALOT less now than it would cost to do all the mods. Really only about 4-5 over what a dealer will ask for a late low to medium level milage car (99) like mine. So ya.When you originally put it up for 23K - I thought it was a bit steep .. but the current price is spot on.
Some is going to get an excellent car for that money.
Like you say - it's what TVR should have done in about 2001 when the S6 engine was starting to show early signs of big problems. They would still be here today under Peter Wheeler if they had made the change.
I will let it go for 19 to move onto the Griff200 but not a penny less - Giving it a good old run out today - to swindon and back this weekend (helping with final bits on the fixed tr6) and go watch the TR's and TVR Speed Champ at Combe tomorrow (they love me;)) - come on down.
I'm off to a classic bike show in Stafford on Sunday to see my new bike.
Might even bring it alomng to the monthly TVR meeting.
THey don't like it noisey at the Combe .. so make sure you annoy them in the village
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