LS2 6 litre Griffith
Discussion
Per Terje has done a very nice engine install of a the LS2 6 Litre into his Griffith.
Some info
* The LS2 E38 ECM needs some tuning due to the altered induction and exhaust.
* LS2 is the 6 Litre used in the Corvette.
* 400hp @ 6000 rpm and 540Nm @ 4400rpm.
* Redlines at 6500rpm.
* Fuel cut off at 6600rpm.
* TKO600 is 2.87/1.89/1.28/1.00/0.64 Rear is 3.31:1
* 100mph is 3000rpm in 5th.
* Fuel consumption, 2 adults and luggage, average speed 60mph is 33mpg (8.5L/100km)
* There was no space left for AC compressor.
more info and pictures can be seen here
Some info
* The LS2 E38 ECM needs some tuning due to the altered induction and exhaust.
* LS2 is the 6 Litre used in the Corvette.
* 400hp @ 6000 rpm and 540Nm @ 4400rpm.
* Redlines at 6500rpm.
* Fuel cut off at 6600rpm.
* TKO600 is 2.87/1.89/1.28/1.00/0.64 Rear is 3.31:1
* 100mph is 3000rpm in 5th.
* Fuel consumption, 2 adults and luggage, average speed 60mph is 33mpg (8.5L/100km)
* There was no space left for AC compressor.
more info and pictures can be seen here
Its about time one someone offered this as a conversion package at a fixed price.
I know I don't have the skill to do a DIY conversion. Paying someone by the hour could end up costing anything.
To get that much power from an RV8 would need both a special rebuild and a supercharger like SHPUB's.
The consumption is bad and you're at the limit of what you can get. The costs of all that come to wellover £10K.
If a conversion was available at a known price people might be able to justify it.
Fester
I know I don't have the skill to do a DIY conversion. Paying someone by the hour could end up costing anything.
To get that much power from an RV8 would need both a special rebuild and a supercharger like SHPUB's.
The consumption is bad and you're at the limit of what you can get. The costs of all that come to wellover £10K.
If a conversion was available at a known price people might be able to justify it.
Fester
The thing is the conversion would most likely cost about 10K...
2nd hand ls1 which hopefully doesn't need rebuilding 3K? after import duty shipping etc
Custom exhaust manifolds to meet existing exhaust 1.2K ish
Aftermarket ECU to run it all 800 quid
Wiring loom to allow plug and play 350 quid
mounts, brackets etc 300 quid
Tremec TK600 seems to be the box of choice about 1.2K?
Clutch 250 quid?
Reworked prop to suit new box and probably different length 100 quid
So just in bits my very rough guesses tot up to £7200, thats before you pay someone to fit it all with an engine of unknown condition, there may be things like different sumps required and moving the oil filter etc which will also add to the price.
I think I'll go a back and tweak my rover some more.....
Matt
2nd hand ls1 which hopefully doesn't need rebuilding 3K? after import duty shipping etc
Custom exhaust manifolds to meet existing exhaust 1.2K ish
Aftermarket ECU to run it all 800 quid
Wiring loom to allow plug and play 350 quid
mounts, brackets etc 300 quid
Tremec TK600 seems to be the box of choice about 1.2K?
Clutch 250 quid?
Reworked prop to suit new box and probably different length 100 quid
So just in bits my very rough guesses tot up to £7200, thats before you pay someone to fit it all with an engine of unknown condition, there may be things like different sumps required and moving the oil filter etc which will also add to the price.
I think I'll go a back and tweak my rover some more.....
Matt
350Matt said:
The thing is the conversion would most likely cost about 10K...
2nd hand ls1 which hopefully doesn't need rebuilding 3K? after import duty shipping etc
Custom exhaust manifolds to meet existing exhaust 1.2K ish
Aftermarket ECU to run it all 800 quid
Wiring loom to allow plug and play 350 quid
mounts, brackets etc 300 quid
Tremec TK600 seems to be the box of choice about 1.2K?
Clutch 250 quid?
Reworked prop to suit new box and probably different length 100 quid
So just in bits my very rough guesses tot up to £7200, thats before you pay someone to fit it all with an engine of unknown condition, there may be things like different sumps required and moving the oil filter etc which will also add to the price.
I think I'll go a back and tweak my rover some more.....
Matt
Mine cost me 13.5k and that was ME and father (I.E> NO LABOUR CHARGES FOR SOMEONE TO WORK IT ALL OUT AS THEY WENT ALONG AND THEN PRESENT A HUGE INSTALL BILL ON TOP OF ALL THE NEW PARTS I USED - NOTHING SECOND HAND).2nd hand ls1 which hopefully doesn't need rebuilding 3K? after import duty shipping etc
Custom exhaust manifolds to meet existing exhaust 1.2K ish
Aftermarket ECU to run it all 800 quid
Wiring loom to allow plug and play 350 quid
mounts, brackets etc 300 quid
Tremec TK600 seems to be the box of choice about 1.2K?
Clutch 250 quid?
Reworked prop to suit new box and probably different length 100 quid
So just in bits my very rough guesses tot up to £7200, thats before you pay someone to fit it all with an engine of unknown condition, there may be things like different sumps required and moving the oil filter etc which will also add to the price.
I think I'll go a back and tweak my rover some more.....
Matt
Then you have to add in the price of some huge Stoppers and some very tasty suspension - make that another 2.5k.
Trust me it would cost you very high teens (even with the dollar the way it is now) to just hand it over to someone to do.
Only reall Per in Norway and myself really know - Brummiewedge has done it too but his engine came from a mate and he and a group of mate that all seem to have LS's in there cars RX7's Cossie etc really know what they are doing so like me it went to gether pretty easily - if you are not pretty damn clued up on this then don't even think about it.
Oh and an LS6 or 2 is about 390 - 420bhp (this being more than you can get from a 5.5 all singing all dancing RV8 that is really as far as it can possibly go), the 2 / 6 are completely std making these power numbers - this is just the starting ppoint for them...............
Oh and a second hand ls1 will make maybe 340bhp - so at this level you are better off going the TUNED RV8 route - only when you want very high 300's or >400bhp is it really worth going the LS route (and it REALLY Costs - I (and Per) did it with effectlively a blank cheque book just to show what COULD BE DONE.
brummiewedge said:
Yep nice, getting a few of these LS Tvr's around now!
That is 1 Monster tuned LS1x Cerb, 1 LS6x Chim and 1 LS2x Griff (Road ones I mean). As us three have no doubt found out, to do it properly Bloody costs. But beats messing about with something that is flawed like an SP6, Right at the limits of what is possible (RV8), or again Big Money modding of an AJP (beyond RR Spec). I could drop a cam in mine and tune it for 99 octan an have 440+ - Just the starting pointI proposed doing this a long time ago and was hinting at a tad over £10k using new custom built engines and parts but at that time I hadn't been able to factor in the exact cost of efi, headers/exhaust system or gearbox type as I hadn't done a conversion although I had figured it out. Given those unknowns people would have been put off. As a business I certainly wouldn't install a used engine given that it could fail after 5 minutes. Jon's right, a proper conversion wouldn't be cheap which is why I didn't pursue the idea. I'd turbocharge the RV8 instead if not going the whole lsx conversion.
Boosted.
Boosted.
frazer guest said:
As Jellison has already said, just taking the Chevy motor as it is, for bang per buck it offers tremendes value for money. I shudder to think what you would have to spend and what you would have to do to get a reliable and consistant 400bhp out of a RV8, and there isnt many AJP's knocking out those figures either.
The chim is a nippy little car, but even if I had half as much power again, (to bring the total upto 300bhp), I still wouldnt consider it a quick one, not by todays standereds. It really does need twice as much power again, (400bhp).
I think that the only way I could sell the idea of a LS conversion to the wife, (and it is half her money), would be to go the whole hog. Not just the engine conversion, brakes and suspension, but also a full chassis refurb as well.
When all that is done, you are proberly looking at close to £25'000, which is what they cost new, but for that money you would have a brand new Chimeara that was better than those that came out of the factory anyway. And what could you buy new, with that sort of performance, for £25'000?
But then looking at re-sale value after such a project, (10-12k, maybe?), the car would have to be a keeper, as in something like 10 years.
I have had a look into TVR Powers supercharger conversion, but by the time I have sourced a 5ltr RV8, had a full rebuild, and supercharged it + chassis refurb, thats proberly £15'000.
Some of you proberly cant see the method in my madness, and fair enough, but a lot of new cars with there ABS, TC, DSC, PSM, over wieght, over tyred, over assisted steering, just dont cut the mustard for me, hence why I would like to keep the Chim and make it as new.
Right then, I'm off to raid the piggy bank, search behind the sofa, and take the mrs down to stand on the town hall steps.
Frazer,The chim is a nippy little car, but even if I had half as much power again, (to bring the total upto 300bhp), I still wouldnt consider it a quick one, not by todays standereds. It really does need twice as much power again, (400bhp).
I think that the only way I could sell the idea of a LS conversion to the wife, (and it is half her money), would be to go the whole hog. Not just the engine conversion, brakes and suspension, but also a full chassis refurb as well.
When all that is done, you are proberly looking at close to £25'000, which is what they cost new, but for that money you would have a brand new Chimeara that was better than those that came out of the factory anyway. And what could you buy new, with that sort of performance, for £25'000?
But then looking at re-sale value after such a project, (10-12k, maybe?), the car would have to be a keeper, as in something like 10 years.
I have had a look into TVR Powers supercharger conversion, but by the time I have sourced a 5ltr RV8, had a full rebuild, and supercharged it + chassis refurb, thats proberly £15'000.
Some of you proberly cant see the method in my madness, and fair enough, but a lot of new cars with there ABS, TC, DSC, PSM, over wieght, over tyred, over assisted steering, just dont cut the mustard for me, hence why I would like to keep the Chim and make it as new.
Right then, I'm off to raid the piggy bank, search behind the sofa, and take the mrs down to stand on the town hall steps.
Just correct a few points here. My car had the chassis attended to during the LS swap - (had a spare week! - it was actually fine with just minor surface rust (not like alot of the earlier cars that have lived outside - and I built a garage for it and it has been tucked up for 3 years in it!). Jacked the chassis off mine 10 inches and you can get to all the area that become dodgy in older TVRs).
A 500 TVR Power lump will struggle to make (with the intercooler option) what a new crate LS6 / 2 makes (once the ecu is tuned for the TVR and new exhuast) and even if it did would be less reliable than a std 500 - hardly a great then! Having seen them all at Mallory at the EVO / Power day
)Oh and a late model list price before any extra on a Chim 500 and Griff (about 98 - 2000 time) was about £34.5k, stick on a few extra like CD change and full leather as my last one (97) had an it would have cost over £37k new
- ABS, TC, DSC, PSM, over weight, over tyred, over assisted steering. Yep all KILL a Car's inherent nibbleness and reall driving pleasure - all that electronic stuff is just JUNK (but that is a whole different story), not like the advance GM ECU then spent 10's of millinon developing (about 50 years ahead of the FI on an RV8!).
Edited by jellison on Wednesday 15th August 08:16
Edited by jellison on Wednesday 15th August 08:16
A bit like boosted, we also looked into this as a drive in drive out for customers, and like mike we could only use new parts, for a new ls6 and gearbox the price was coming out at around £15000, when we spoke to few people it was just too much and this price didnt include brakes etc, just the fitting of the engine.
My exhaust was 1750 two year back! (think I was over charged an have since binned the centre boxes - but even if built like this it woul have been 1500 quid). Yep too much.
I just got sucked into doing it as BEST it possibly could be - but when it is the first it should be done right.
Mind Brummie doing the zorst his self did a lovely job.
But yes to do as a commercial venture was always going to be a non starter if using new bits.
I just got sucked into doing it as BEST it possibly could be - but when it is the first it should be done right.
Mind Brummie doing the zorst his self did a lovely job.
But yes to do as a commercial venture was always going to be a non starter if using new bits.
There is just sooooo much that can be over looked when doing something like this, power steering pipes being made up at £70 each, heater hoses and cooling pipes ok if your doing it yourself you can get away with cutting a few bits of pipes and jubilee together, but from a garages point of view we just cant do that, so we would need to make the hoses from scratch £££££!!!
I reckon £15k for a drive in out would be around right. Craig ( Dyno Torque.) and i had many a conversation while doing mine over last winter, this would include a chassis refurb. Thats ballpark anyway. The pull outs we've seen have beemn real clean and low mileage, but this would be the owners job to source, so if it went wrong...
i have fitted 6 ls1s into various cars,5 of them being second hand and all have been perfect,you just have to buy from a proper place,and they are so cheap to rebuild anyway.i offer drive in drive out conversions for rx7s but it is harder for tvrs because of the problems you find on the way (rust mainly),i went down the rover route first with 338bhp,330ftlb but this was with big cam and lots of money,it was fast but hard work as a daily drive keeping it cool was hard and it ate clutches and gearboxes.i fitted a std ls1(out of a vxr monaro) it made 417bhp,430ftlb on WRCs dyno and was so smooth plus the skys the limit to what power you want !.mine is now a 6.95litre 558bhp,572ftlb and a daily drive it will still pull 6th gear at 20mph !.the problem with these conversions is tooling up for the parts if you are going to do more that one its worth making up a few kits but only if people are going to spend some money,if you are looking at one of these conversions you are better to buy a ls1(5.7) and fit a cam kit as it will give more power than a ls2 for less money and you can allways do more later stroker kit etc,if any of you need convincing have a go in the best rover powered car you can find then a ls powered one, you will find the money !!! its all about the torque
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