Heated Argument with 'Advanced Driver'. Who's right please?
Discussion
I'm posting this after a bad tempered argument with someone who claimed to be an IAM member. I'd like opinions from PH members on whether I was in the right or not, as this left me fuming. If I'm wrong then fair enough.
I can't post a Google Map shot on here, but if you search for 'Cheeke Street, Exeter' you'll find the marker right next to a bus, with a roundabout to the top left of the screen where Cheeke St. bisects Bampfylde St.
Using this shot as a reference my wife and I were walking up Cheeke St from the 2 buses towards the roundabout. We then went about 10 metres right into Bampfylde St to cross it and then continue up Cheeke St. The roundabout and its approaches were completely clear when we started to cross and there were no parked cars.
As we were crossing Bampfylde St a silver Golf drove down Cheeke St towards the roundabout, indicating left. At this point we had already crossed the centre line of Bampfylde road, so were in the lane he was indicating to turn on to.
Without stopping he turned left on the roundabout and came to rapid halt in front of us, beeped his horn and then gave a mouthful of abuse through his open window along the lines of "Get off the road you f***ing idiot". At this point we were about two steps from the kerb. I replied something like 'we were already crossing before you were even on the roundabout' and it went on from there...
I won't go into too much detail as it went on for a while, but his position can be summed up that we weren't on a pedestrian crossing, so he had right of way and as someone who had just passed his Advanced Driver course he knew what he was talking about.
My position was was how can he have right of way on the road we were already crossing when he hadn't even reached the roundabout's give way line? Therefore his exit was not clear and he shouldn't have proceeded onto the roundabout in the first place.
Throughout this he was swearing and being generally obnoxious, although to be fair I initially gave some back until I saw he had his two young daughters in the car (he'd initially got out of the car so I didn't see them at first).
The whole thing left me with boiling p**s so I'd really appreciate someone who is definitely an IAM or ADI to either tell me i'm right, or if not where I was wrong.
Also if any of you know a new IAM member in Exeter, about 5'10", thickset with short dark hair and arm tatts who drives a silver Golf then can you ask him whether he remembers that bit in the Highway Code that says 'Be a courteous driver' and please, please point him towards this thread. As I said to him at the time - if you can prove i'm wrong then i'll happily apologise and admit you're right, I just don't think you are!.
And Breath....
I can't post a Google Map shot on here, but if you search for 'Cheeke Street, Exeter' you'll find the marker right next to a bus, with a roundabout to the top left of the screen where Cheeke St. bisects Bampfylde St.
Using this shot as a reference my wife and I were walking up Cheeke St from the 2 buses towards the roundabout. We then went about 10 metres right into Bampfylde St to cross it and then continue up Cheeke St. The roundabout and its approaches were completely clear when we started to cross and there were no parked cars.
As we were crossing Bampfylde St a silver Golf drove down Cheeke St towards the roundabout, indicating left. At this point we had already crossed the centre line of Bampfylde road, so were in the lane he was indicating to turn on to.
Without stopping he turned left on the roundabout and came to rapid halt in front of us, beeped his horn and then gave a mouthful of abuse through his open window along the lines of "Get off the road you f***ing idiot". At this point we were about two steps from the kerb. I replied something like 'we were already crossing before you were even on the roundabout' and it went on from there...
I won't go into too much detail as it went on for a while, but his position can be summed up that we weren't on a pedestrian crossing, so he had right of way and as someone who had just passed his Advanced Driver course he knew what he was talking about.
My position was was how can he have right of way on the road we were already crossing when he hadn't even reached the roundabout's give way line? Therefore his exit was not clear and he shouldn't have proceeded onto the roundabout in the first place.
Throughout this he was swearing and being generally obnoxious, although to be fair I initially gave some back until I saw he had his two young daughters in the car (he'd initially got out of the car so I didn't see them at first).
The whole thing left me with boiling p**s so I'd really appreciate someone who is definitely an IAM or ADI to either tell me i'm right, or if not where I was wrong.
Also if any of you know a new IAM member in Exeter, about 5'10", thickset with short dark hair and arm tatts who drives a silver Golf then can you ask him whether he remembers that bit in the Highway Code that says 'Be a courteous driver' and please, please point him towards this thread. As I said to him at the time - if you can prove i'm wrong then i'll happily apologise and admit you're right, I just don't think you are!.
And Breath....
I am neither an advanced driver or instructor.
My understanding is that motor vehicles have priority over pedestrians unless they are on a crossing. However, I would always give way out of courtesy if nothing else to a pedestrian crossing the road,providing they are already crossing if you see what I mean.
Surely you are no better than him for swearing and shouting back? Lose your temper and lose the moral high ground.
My understanding is that motor vehicles have priority over pedestrians unless they are on a crossing. However, I would always give way out of courtesy if nothing else to a pedestrian crossing the road,providing they are already crossing if you see what I mean.
Surely you are no better than him for swearing and shouting back? Lose your temper and lose the moral high ground.
Highway Code said:
Rule 170
Take extra care at junctions. You should
* watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, powered wheelchairs/mobility scooters and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see. Be aware that they may not have seen or heard you if you are approaching from behind
* watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
* watch out for long vehicles which may be turning at a junction ahead; they may have to use the whole width of the road to make the turn (see Rule 221)
* Road users requiring extra care (204-225)
Give way to pedestrians who have started to cross
* watch out for horse riders who may take a different line on the road from that which you would expect
* not assume, when waiting at a junction, that a vehicle coming from the right and signalling left will actually turn. Wait and make sure
* look all around before emerging. Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely
Take extra care at junctions. You should
* watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, powered wheelchairs/mobility scooters and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see. Be aware that they may not have seen or heard you if you are approaching from behind
* watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
* watch out for long vehicles which may be turning at a junction ahead; they may have to use the whole width of the road to make the turn (see Rule 221)
* Road users requiring extra care (204-225)
Give way to pedestrians who have started to cross
* watch out for horse riders who may take a different line on the road from that which you would expect
* not assume, when waiting at a junction, that a vehicle coming from the right and signalling left will actually turn. Wait and make sure
* look all around before emerging. Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely
Tyre Smoke said:
I am neither an advanced driver or instructor.
My understanding is that motor vehicles have priority over pedestrians unless they are on a crossing. However, I would always give way out of courtesy if nothing else to a pedestrian crossing the road,providing they are already crossing if you see what I mean.
Surely you are no better than him for swearing and shouting back? Lose your temper and lose the moral high ground.
I do see what you mean and on a normal road i'd totally agree with you, but he hadn't joined the road I was crossing - I think Von's post above sums it up though.My understanding is that motor vehicles have priority over pedestrians unless they are on a crossing. However, I would always give way out of courtesy if nothing else to a pedestrian crossing the road,providing they are already crossing if you see what I mean.
Surely you are no better than him for swearing and shouting back? Lose your temper and lose the moral high ground.
Also I know it comes across like I went off on one, but I didn't actually shout or lose my temper - I raised my voice slightly and only swore once when I called him an A**ehole.
I totally agree about the high ground and find it's far better to remain calm, so agree with you on that too.
What I meant was that I really watched what I was saying after I noticed he had his kids in the car to make sure I didn't swear. It all took place at reasonably normal level, just very strongly expressed, and he did all the swearing except for the word previously mentioned by me
. If I easily lost my temper in my job i'd be pretty useless (Armed Forces BTW - not dibble!
), but it left me feeling really tee'd off - hence the post.Edited by Mike_Mac on Saturday 23 April 18:43
Tyre Smoke said:
My understanding is that motor vehicles have priority over pedestrians unless they are on a crossing.
Your understanding is wrong.A pedestrian already crossing the road before a vehicle turns into it has the right of way.
Too many drivers think what you understand to be the cast - and DON'T have the courtesy you would show. The two things together make for a dangerous driver - and the OP met one.
OP was in the right - driver was in the wrong. In the past, I've told a driver in a similar situation to read the f
king highway code when he got home.
Mike_Mac said:
...we weren't on a pedestrian crossing, so he had right of way and as someone who had just passed his Advanced Driver course he knew what he was talking about.
No, he has no idea what he's talking about, that's because he was talking bo****ks.There is no such thing as a right of way on UK roads, we have system of priorities and this doesn't sound as though he had priority in the circumstances described.
a potential problem for IAM / RoADAR (and in fact any other 'advanced' qualification in almost anything) - the holder of said qualification suddenly thinks they know it all
it turns some of them into c**ks
and what's with all the language anyway? double c**k I would say for that.
rule 170 is indeed the arbiter, if one is needed.
but surely common sense says 'I am encased in 1200+kg of steel, the pedestrians aren't, they are, therefore, vulnerable and I should drive with consideration towards them otherwise I am a c**k'
maybe when he said he had 'just passed IAM' he meant just as in only just managed to scrape a pass, not just as in recently
it turns some of them into c**ks
and what's with all the language anyway? double c**k I would say for that.
rule 170 is indeed the arbiter, if one is needed.
but surely common sense says 'I am encased in 1200+kg of steel, the pedestrians aren't, they are, therefore, vulnerable and I should drive with consideration towards them otherwise I am a c**k'
maybe when he said he had 'just passed IAM' he meant just as in only just managed to scrape a pass, not just as in recently
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 April 19:00
Did he actually say it was an IAM course or just an advanced driving course? People tell all sorts of lies. He sound like a guy who used to live or visit a house up the road from where I live. Silver Golf, tattoos. He met a driver coming the other way on the tight bend, got out of his car and put his fists up challenging him to a fight.
JPJPJP said:
maybe when he said he had 'just passed IAM' he meant just as in only just managed to scrape a pass, not just as in recently
Hahaha, that bit made my night. Not sure on the legal aspect of it, but i am sure as hell that he wouldnt pass his AD test with an attitude like that, and having said attitude surely isnt something the IAM (ROSPA etc?) condone. Maybe you could contact the IAM and tell them.Edited by JPJPJP on Saturday 23 April 19:00
If he is new then he will have had to provide data on the car he drives in the forms he fills in, wont take them long to find his name.
But.. for him to enter and cross a round about in the time it takes you to cross the road, then you must be walking very slow, or he must have been hitting some impressive speeds (i didnt google map it, as its soon easter and i am being lazy in prep for the egg scoffing).
FraserLFA said:
fiveoclockhero1 said:
Pedestrians ALWAYS have priority, doesnt matter where on the road they are. Fortunately not many pedestrians know this!!
Only when they've started to cross, and it was initially safe to cross. They can't just walk out in front of cars and demand they stop.However, being in the right and having priority still doesn't give a driver any legal defence if he deliberately runs into them.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff