Another multiple overtake question
Discussion
Yesterday I enjoyed a lovely drive back from the office on a very big diversion through the back roads. Car is an e92 335d so has plenty of usable power.
2 multiple overtakes the first, completely happy with. The 2nd got me thinking.
Massive long straight road, 4x4 pulling a loaded trailer at the front doing 40 in a 60. 2 cars following. The one behind the trailing leaving a v.big, probably sensibly in case of debris (that gap was my safety net). The car behind him (and in front of me), the usual sensible 4 car gap. I had been following the car in front for a few miles, steady driver, steady speed.
I hang back on this massive straight, can see my distance, edge out more so I am almost dead centre on the roads width. I stay there for a few seconds to ascertain whether the car in front will do an overtake, he stayed put and the car in front of him made no effort to close the gap so let the cars in front know what i'm doing, i feel i have done the right thing, i know i can safely pass to the gap behind the trailer so i indicate and overtake, there is no oncoming traffic and the visibility and distance to any potential oncoming traffic is easily out of the danger zone. However, i decide to carry on and to a 3 overtake in 1, remember the big gap between the trailer 4x4 and the car behind it.
On one hand, nobody showed signs of overtaking, road conditions, excellent, visibility as good as it could be but my 335d moves, my closing speed was a lot higher on the final vehicle and to be honest my car bings when i reach a certain speed, it did bing at me and i did mean i was slightly over the limit based on speedo reading which isn't always accurate.
My question is, if a police car sees a "beemer" do a 3 car overtake and straying just over the limit, would they think i was driving dangerously and give me a ticking off or at worse fine me or will they respect the care in which i executed the manoeuvre. I also find multiple overtakes a bit of a grey area.
2 multiple overtakes the first, completely happy with. The 2nd got me thinking.
Massive long straight road, 4x4 pulling a loaded trailer at the front doing 40 in a 60. 2 cars following. The one behind the trailing leaving a v.big, probably sensibly in case of debris (that gap was my safety net). The car behind him (and in front of me), the usual sensible 4 car gap. I had been following the car in front for a few miles, steady driver, steady speed.
I hang back on this massive straight, can see my distance, edge out more so I am almost dead centre on the roads width. I stay there for a few seconds to ascertain whether the car in front will do an overtake, he stayed put and the car in front of him made no effort to close the gap so let the cars in front know what i'm doing, i feel i have done the right thing, i know i can safely pass to the gap behind the trailer so i indicate and overtake, there is no oncoming traffic and the visibility and distance to any potential oncoming traffic is easily out of the danger zone. However, i decide to carry on and to a 3 overtake in 1, remember the big gap between the trailer 4x4 and the car behind it.
On one hand, nobody showed signs of overtaking, road conditions, excellent, visibility as good as it could be but my 335d moves, my closing speed was a lot higher on the final vehicle and to be honest my car bings when i reach a certain speed, it did bing at me and i did mean i was slightly over the limit based on speedo reading which isn't always accurate.
My question is, if a police car sees a "beemer" do a 3 car overtake and straying just over the limit, would they think i was driving dangerously and give me a ticking off or at worse fine me or will they respect the care in which i executed the manoeuvre. I also find multiple overtakes a bit of a grey area.
A car towing a trailer would more than likely be far under the limit, so the police would probably turn a blind eye. Assuming you slowed back down to the speed limit after.
A mobile of fixed speed camera is another issue. As to whether you could argue it in court, i duno, would be interesting to know if there are any cases on it, anyone?
A mobile of fixed speed camera is another issue. As to whether you could argue it in court, i duno, would be interesting to know if there are any cases on it, anyone?
As long as what you do is planned and well executed then no self respecting Police officer would give you a ticket or report you for summons.
It is when people drive in a manner that would endanger others or when what they do is careless becuse of poor observations and planning (in some cases no planning at all) then they fall foul of the law.
The maximum speed limit is just that... A speed you will maintain where possible, reduce where necessary but never exceed. That is the official guideline! However lets be realistic... when you overtake, as long as you don't take the p*ss or drive well above the limit or in a manner that will draw attention to yourself you are very unlikely to get pulled over. The less time spent on the wrong side of the road on an overtake the better.
It sounds to me that you planned and executed the overtake with great care and thought and therefore safely.
Oh and just remember unless you were pinged with a lazer speed detection device a Police officer has to follow and pace you for an excess of 0.16 of a mile (normally 2/10ths on a calibrated speedo) to be convicted of a speeding offence.
The golden rule is do it safely and return back to your own side of the road in one piece and not cause any other motorist to take avoiding action or never overtake if you are likely to come into conflict with any other road user!
It is when people drive in a manner that would endanger others or when what they do is careless becuse of poor observations and planning (in some cases no planning at all) then they fall foul of the law.
The maximum speed limit is just that... A speed you will maintain where possible, reduce where necessary but never exceed. That is the official guideline! However lets be realistic... when you overtake, as long as you don't take the p*ss or drive well above the limit or in a manner that will draw attention to yourself you are very unlikely to get pulled over. The less time spent on the wrong side of the road on an overtake the better.
It sounds to me that you planned and executed the overtake with great care and thought and therefore safely.
Oh and just remember unless you were pinged with a lazer speed detection device a Police officer has to follow and pace you for an excess of 0.16 of a mile (normally 2/10ths on a calibrated speedo) to be convicted of a speeding offence.
The golden rule is do it safely and return back to your own side of the road in one piece and not cause any other motorist to take avoiding action or never overtake if you are likely to come into conflict with any other road user!
I agree that exceeding the speed limit vs spending more time on the wrong side of the road wud score less on the dangerous driving scale.
On overtakes sometimes people judge it wrong , especially if a new oncoming vehicle is speeding so your overtaking distance is swiftly reducing. In that situation IMO it's better to just hurry up and finish the overtake rather than take evasive actions like swerving into small gaps or braking etc.
On overtakes sometimes people judge it wrong , especially if a new oncoming vehicle is speeding so your overtaking distance is swiftly reducing. In that situation IMO it's better to just hurry up and finish the overtake rather than take evasive actions like swerving into small gaps or braking etc.
Regardless of how safe the overtake was (and it was IMO) if you exceed the speed limit doing so you have broken the law and you can be prosecuted for it.
Just because the overtake was well driven and safe is no excuse, lets face it, 100 on an empty motorway at 2 in the morning driving a Ferarri Enzo is safe too, but I bet you'd be cycling to work soon after.
Just because the overtake was well driven and safe is no excuse, lets face it, 100 on an empty motorway at 2 in the morning driving a Ferarri Enzo is safe too, but I bet you'd be cycling to work soon after.
As long as no other car had to take any evasive action as a result of your manouevre, and as long as you returned back to your own side of the road, at or under the posted limit, I can't see why any police officer would have a problem.
They're all advanced drivers of one degree or another, if you had the time and space to make that rationalised decision, any police in the vicinity would have been able to see.
They're all advanced drivers of one degree or another, if you had the time and space to make that rationalised decision, any police in the vicinity would have been able to see.
Multiple overtakes are fine if all the road conditions allow. Whether a police officer objects would probably be down to the individual. It might depend on whether the officer who sees it is a trained traffic officer or a local bobby. Traffic officers will most likely have more interest in driving to make progress themselves and more advanced driver training whereas a local officer might be scandalised by you accelerating to a high speed and passing three vehicles at once. A lot of people would be.
Another thing you have to consider is what might happen if you have an accident up the road. There were three drivers there, plus any passengers they may have had, who would have probably told the police officers in attendance you went flying past them like a maniac, even though your overtake was perfectly safe and well planned.
Like you say, it's a grey area. I've known people get pulled over for passing lots of traffic in stages, a few vehicles at a time. Where is the line drawn between doing a few safe multiple overtakes and taking the mickey by overtaking lots of traffic?
Another thing you have to consider is what might happen if you have an accident up the road. There were three drivers there, plus any passengers they may have had, who would have probably told the police officers in attendance you went flying past them like a maniac, even though your overtake was perfectly safe and well planned.
Like you say, it's a grey area. I've known people get pulled over for passing lots of traffic in stages, a few vehicles at a time. Where is the line drawn between doing a few safe multiple overtakes and taking the mickey by overtaking lots of traffic?
Edited by Blakewater on Saturday 23 April 23:38
waremark said:
You also need to consider a safe speed differential when passing - if the speed differential is very high you are committed to the overtake from a long way back, and are exposed for a long time to unpredicted moves by the towing vehicle.
Isnt safe speed differential also dependant on available power?This kind of situation is an argument for more proper policing with officers patrolling the roads using their own judgement in situations rather than the use of fixed speed cameras and radar guns. A speed trap looks at your speed in an instant, an officer following you in his car looks at your overall driving over a distance. A friend of mine got a speeding ticket through his door the other day, he'd been caught in a speed trap on the M6 doing 79mph. He didn't see it and knew nothing about it until the ticket landed on his doormat so he didn't brake from a much higher speed. I doubt an officer would have pulled him over for that speed even though he was breaking the law. He may have just momentarily accelerated to avoid being caught in a lorry driver's blind spot as he indicated to pull out or something like that and driven at a perfect 70mph the rest of the time. We have laws to protect us as unfortunately we don't live in a Utopian society where everybody knows how to behave responsibly and respect each other and if we didn't we'd have anarchy. However, driving is all about judgement and we have to make quick decisions about what's the safest thing to do in the moment. You just have to hope your judgement is the same as the police officers in the vicinity or, if not, the jury when your court case comes up. 
I did a safe overtake of 2 cars and a HGV on the A9 and promptly got a ticket in the post from a mobile van sitting in the layby at the bottom of the straight hill. I was commited to the overtake and wound her up to 77mph according to the ticket. I wrote to the authorities to question safe overtake versus speeding to be told "we can prosecute for 1 mph over if we wish". Dont you just love jobsworths
CarbonXKR said:
I did a safe overtake of 2 cars and a HGV on the A9 and promptly got a ticket in the post from a mobile van sitting in the layby at the bottom of the straight hill. I was commited to the overtake and wound her up to 77mph according to the ticket. I wrote to the authorities to question safe overtake versus speeding to be told "we can prosecute for 1 mph over if we wish". Dont you just love jobsworths
Sorry to hear that, I had similar, at the end of the long straight at Newtonmore/Kingussie. No van or car, just camera left in a roadside box, not a gatso. Where was your van?
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