If you drive in such a way..

[Benbay001]

As to pass you AD test (with flying colours, ie RoSPA gold), can you pass a standard "L" test? Are there things taught in AD that would constitute a fail in the L test? I couldnt think of any.
Curiosity purely got the better of me here..

[anonymous-user]

can't think of any either

not sure how examiner would react to commentary

[Benbay001]

JPJPJP said:

can't think of any either

not sure how examiner would react to commentary

Haha, you would probably get marked down for not appearing to be fully attentive on the road.

[WhoseGeneration]

Benbay001 said:

As to pass you AD test (with flying colours, ie RoSPA gold), can you pass a standard "L" test? Are there things taught in AD that would constitute a fail in the L test? I couldnt think of any.
Curiosity purely got the better of me here..

vonhosen is probably best placed to answer this.
I'm wondering about "assertive" positioning, offsiding and the fact that advanced drivers sometimes would appear to be slow.
I, for instance, like to make quick getaways, where safe, from traffic lights, to allow more behind to also get through. Would that be a mark against me?

[SVS]

Yes, some advanced techniques would result in failing the L-test. It happened to me!

I was quite an advanced car driver (RoSPA Gold and HPC) when I took my motorcycle L-test. My bike instructor had to drill me to stop positioning for Safety/Stability/View. Instead, I had to re-learn to position according to the DSA requirements for the L-test. Under test pressure, however, I reverted to advanced positioning unconsciously ... and the DSA Examiner failed me. What's even worse is that, after failing me, the DSA Examiner said that he was an advanced rider and knew what I was doing! He said that he was required to fail me nonetheless.

Needless to say, I managed to learn how to position for the L-test. The happy ending is that a chunk of my advanced driving translated into advanced riding, keeping me safe from new rider accidents. Now I'm RoSPA Gold on the bike too.

Aside from positioning, I've heard of advanced drivers having problems with separating the Speed and Gear phases. Avoiding brake/gear overlap has been perceived as hesitation. Furthermore, I imagine that using the performance of your vehicle might not pass the new requirement for eco-driving.

[simoid]

SVS said:

Under test pressure, however, I reverted to advanced positioning unconsciously ...

There's your problem!

Sorry

[Baryonyx]

SVS said:

Aside from positioning, I've heard of advanced drivers having problems with separating the Speed and Gear phases. Avoiding brake/gear overlap has been perceived as hesitation.

If anything, break/gear overlap appears to be put on too high a pedestal in these civilian advanced driving courses. It seems to be practised for the sake of it at times. Fair enough in say, emergency response driving where overlapping brake and gear phases could destabilise the vehicle in a major way, but the excessive rigidity with which it is used in these civilian approaches just seem silly especially given the lower speeds involved.

Fair enough if your goal is to drive exactly following a set of rules for the sheer pleasure of doing so, as I'm not convinced it will be a massive aid to smoothness.

[Z.B]

SVS said:

Yes, some advanced techniques would result in failing the L-test. It happened to me!

If what you did was safe, legal and convenient, then you were unlucky.

[SVS]

Z.B said:

If what you did was safe, legal and convenient, then you were unlucky.

It was and I was. Even the DSA Examiner said so, which was galling at the time! He was following DSA rules to the letter

Baryonyx said:

If anything, break/gear overlap appears to be put on too high a pedestal in these civilian advanced driving courses.

You could be right for some, but I hope not in my case Even those who go to sleep clutching a copy of Roadcraft should have spotted that it stresses flexibility and gives examples when overlapping is advised. Anyway, avoiding brake/gear overlap is only an issue for car drivers

[Baryonyx]

SVS said:

You could be right for some, but I hope not in my case Even those who go to sleep clutching a copy of Roadcraft should have spotted that it stresses flexibility and gives examples when overlapping is advised. Anyway, avoiding brake/gear overlap is only an issue for car drivers

Yes, Roadcraft does advise break/gear overlap in certain circumstances. My point was that for police drivers, maxiumum progress is often the objective of a drive, whereas the civilian advanced courses seem to make a bigger issue of break/gear overlap for no discernable reason. YMMV.

[Z.B]

SVS said:

Z.B said:

If what you did was safe, legal and convenient, then you were unlucky.

He was following DSA rules to the letter

I'm not convinced. DSA rules require the examiner to interpret the driver's actions in the context within which they occur. It is not as simple as 'fail this pass that'. 'Did it have the potential to affect others or to be dangerous' is the test to be satisfied - this is a matter of judgement.

If the examiner really thought your positioning was safe, legal and convenient he was wrong to fail you. He could only justify his decision on the basis that he thought it was 'potentially unsafe'. It doesn't sound as though that was his view.

[WhoseGeneration]

simoid said:

There's your problem!

Sorry

Explain please, to help others.

[fulvia griff]

We seem to have shifted towards just the motorcycle side of things so sorry for changing topic but:

I believe putting the car in neutral when at a standstill is a fail on the L-test, while that is the sensible thing to do (althought I'm not sure, I should remember really, it was only 2 years ago for me...). Also not keeping two hands on the wheel when doing a maneuver is an instant fail on the L-test while its recommended by the IAM in that you can place one arm somewhere to support your weight when reversing.

[Z.B]

fulvia griff said:

We seem to have shifted towards just the motorcycle side of things so sorry for changing topic but:

I believe putting the car in neutral when at a standstill is a fail on the L-test, while that is the sensible thing to do (althought I'm not sure, I should remember really, it was only 2 years ago for me...). Also not keeping two hands on the wheel when doing a maneuver is an instant fail on the L-test while its recommended by the IAM in that you can place one arm somewhere to support your weight when reversing.

No it's not. And no it's not.

Where did you get these ideas? Someone has been telling you porky pies, I think.

[fulvia griff]

Z.B said:

fulvia griff said:

We seem to have shifted towards just the motorcycle side of things so sorry for changing topic but:

I believe putting the car in neutral when at a standstill is a fail on the L-test, while that is the sensible thing to do (althought I'm not sure, I should remember really, it was only 2 years ago for me...). Also not keeping two hands on the wheel when doing a maneuver is an instant fail on the L-test while its recommended by the IAM in that you can place one arm somewhere to support your weight when reversing.

No it's not. And no it's not.

Where did you get these ideas? Someone has been telling you porky pies, I think.

Well I stand totally corrected, its what I was told by my instructor a few years ago, no idea why he would have lied though, maybe to avoid common mistakes. I still passed so its alright!

[Broken]

When I learnt to drive I was told by my instructor that using your gears to control the speed of your car when going down a hill is a fail. Although it is sensible, is this the same for the advanced test?

[_Neal_]

Broken said:

When I learnt to drive I was told by my instructor that using your gears to control the speed of your car when going down a hill is a fail. Although it is sensible, is this the same for the advanced test?

No, it isn't. Is using gears to control the speed of a car on a hill actually a fail on the DSA test though - don't think it was when I did mine? Surely they don't want your car picking up speed in a high gear on a steep hill, and you just to use your brakes?

[handpaper]

Broken said:

When I learnt to drive I was told by my instructor that using your gears to control the speed of your car when going down a hill is a fail. Although it is sensible, is this the same for the advanced test?

20 years ago, when I first took driving lessons, I was taught the opposite.

10 years ago, when I finally got round to taking my car test, I did it during lessons and on test and no comment was ever made.

The other day I saw a road sign advising me to engage a low gear to descend the hill I was approaching

[Thesius]

We had an associate induction day recently at our local car IAM group, I was one of the observers that went along to do a session with an associate after the talk.

I ended up being paired up with a DSA instructor, we had an interesting chat about this sort of topic and we both agreed that if you turned up to do your DSA test and drove in the same way you did on an IAM or RoSPA test you would fail.

If you put the 2 tests into context they are very different, the DSA test is designed for people who have limited driving experience to demonstrate that they have achieved a standard where they will be safe to drive on the public highway on their own. An advanced test is to demonstrate an advanced level of driving and is voluntary. Therefore the criteria for the 2 is very different, if you straight line a roundabout for example on a DSA test it will not do you any favours because you are not expected to have the observation skills, plus it is assumed you wont have the necessary car control if anything where to happen. On an advanced test (especialy if you use comentary) there wont be a problem with straightlining a roundabout because you can demonstrate to the examiner that you have seen the roundabout is clear, the conditions are correct, your speed is appropriate and that you are accelerating over the roundabout.

Maybe if the DSA test was more like an IAM test our roads wouldnt have so many numpties on them.

[L555BAT]

Crossing the centre white line in order to lessen the severity of a bend.

Crossing the centre line of a T junction when you have a clear view into the junction and nothing's coming.

Not indicating where it isn't necessary.