Anyone here an instructor for Rob Gravett?
Discussion
Re: The braking technique that this outfit is training on behalf of Volvo et al.
I understand what the logic is, i.e. do all braking in a straight line then at the last nanosecond, lift off brakes whilst weight is still transferred forward to get maximum steering grip for avoidance. In other words less grip available for steering if still using a lot of grip for braking.
But it's taken years to get people in a mega avoidance situation to consider planting their foot on the pedal keeping it there AND steering.
What about if they still have to steer AND still have to brake.
Lifting off the brake to steer is no big issue to old crusties like me who grew up without ABS/DSC/EBD and all that TLA malarkey. Must be a big shock to youngsters.
Note, whilst the thread will no doubt degenerate into a willy waving discussion about the circle of grip or whatever it's known as lately, it seems as though this flies in the face of what everyone used to be told for the last x years. Thus I just think this topic is worthy of wider discussion here.
:waits to hear what cptsideways says.:
I understand what the logic is, i.e. do all braking in a straight line then at the last nanosecond, lift off brakes whilst weight is still transferred forward to get maximum steering grip for avoidance. In other words less grip available for steering if still using a lot of grip for braking.
But it's taken years to get people in a mega avoidance situation to consider planting their foot on the pedal keeping it there AND steering.
What about if they still have to steer AND still have to brake.
Lifting off the brake to steer is no big issue to old crusties like me who grew up without ABS/DSC/EBD and all that TLA malarkey. Must be a big shock to youngsters.
Note, whilst the thread will no doubt degenerate into a willy waving discussion about the circle of grip or whatever it's known as lately, it seems as though this flies in the face of what everyone used to be told for the last x years. Thus I just think this topic is worthy of wider discussion here.
:waits to hear what cptsideways says.:
I'm not a trainer for Rob Gravett but i've had a go of that exercise at TRL. Others will be along to go into much more technical detail but yes, if your 'escape route' happens to be virtually a U-turn then you'll get round more sharply by braking hard as close as possible up to the (potential) impact point then getting off the brakes and steering sharply. Good fun to practice as long as you're not paying for the tyres. I would much prefer not getting into a situation in real life where this manoeuvre became necessary.
With Andy Walsh we did an exercise to see how you could get round a bend having entered too fast. Hard braking until you got too much understeer, then off the brakes, but not off so sharply that it snapped into oversteer. You could control the transition from understeer to oversteer.
This TRL exercise that is mentioned above, apparently you drive at increasing speeds towards a line of cones, do not press the brake until the instructor says so, then hammer the brakes as hard as you can in a straight line and then at the last possible second, completely off the brakes and steer through a gate made in the cones at the side.
Too early off the brakes and the weight will transfer off the front wheels and you'll have less grip.
However, to my mind, in the real world you'll be braking in your lane on the motorway, say, realise you aren't going to be able to stop in your lane but there is bit more distance in the next lane or up the hard shoulder so you want to steer to the left, say, but still want to continue braking as there are other obstacle in that lane that you want to avoid.
So to my mind, this is a very artificial and specialised set of circumstances they are creating and I'm undecided about it tbh. Not to mention hard steering when all the weight is off the rear wheels, that's going to end well in real life.
They are charging £300 pp for this btw. There is some classroom strict dry RoSPA style stuff in the morning.
Although apparently the braking distance at various speeds put your cone where you think it will stop is enlightening for many.
Too early off the brakes and the weight will transfer off the front wheels and you'll have less grip.
However, to my mind, in the real world you'll be braking in your lane on the motorway, say, realise you aren't going to be able to stop in your lane but there is bit more distance in the next lane or up the hard shoulder so you want to steer to the left, say, but still want to continue braking as there are other obstacle in that lane that you want to avoid.
So to my mind, this is a very artificial and specialised set of circumstances they are creating and I'm undecided about it tbh. Not to mention hard steering when all the weight is off the rear wheels, that's going to end well in real life.
They are charging £300 pp for this btw. There is some classroom strict dry RoSPA style stuff in the morning.
Although apparently the braking distance at various speeds put your cone where you think it will stop is enlightening for many.
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