All You Need To Know About Advanced Driving...
Discussion
Synchromesh said:
Sorry but am I missing something?
Perhaps but BRAKE are missing the point entirely. Their website contains extreme twaddle which is actually contrary to advanced driving. Thought it might be worth alerting fellow enthusiasts (is "enthusiasts" non PC?).Edited by bigdog3 on Friday 25th February 09:34
To be fair it doesn't seem to claim to be 'advanced', just 'safe' and 'responsible'. I actually agree with a lot of what's on there; the practical advice for drivers bit ('Pledge2drive safely')reads well until you get to this:
'I pledge to drive below limits, taking particular care at junctions, bends and in bad weather, avoiding overtaking, and slowing to 20mph or below around schools and homes.'
Particular care around junctions, bends, etc - fine. But 'drive below limits'; 'avoiding overtaking'...IMO it's at best simplistic/over-cautious, at worst could promote the sort of brain-out numptyism all too common on the roads these days (ill-tempered headlight-flashing at overtakes, dawdlers building frustration in other drivers, etc).
Safe? Perhaps. Responsible? How responsible is it to drive by doggedly adhering to a set of guidelines like this in the belief that it automatically makes you 'safe'? Advanced driving as we know it it - i.e. continually OBSERVING, ASSESSING actual & potential hazards and PLANNING your drive - it ain't...
'I pledge to drive below limits, taking particular care at junctions, bends and in bad weather, avoiding overtaking, and slowing to 20mph or below around schools and homes.'
Particular care around junctions, bends, etc - fine. But 'drive below limits'; 'avoiding overtaking'...IMO it's at best simplistic/over-cautious, at worst could promote the sort of brain-out numptyism all too common on the roads these days (ill-tempered headlight-flashing at overtakes, dawdlers building frustration in other drivers, etc).
Safe? Perhaps. Responsible? How responsible is it to drive by doggedly adhering to a set of guidelines like this in the belief that it automatically makes you 'safe'? Advanced driving as we know it it - i.e. continually OBSERVING, ASSESSING actual & potential hazards and PLANNING your drive - it ain't...
pop monkey said:
To be fair it doesn't seem to claim to be 'advanced', just 'safe' and 'responsible'. I actually agree with a lot of what's on there; the practical advice for drivers bit ('Pledge2drive safely')reads well until you get to this:
'I pledge to drive below limits, taking particular care at junctions, bends and in bad weather, avoiding overtaking, and slowing to 20mph or below around schools and homes.'
Particular care around junctions, bends, etc - fine. But 'drive below limits'; 'avoiding overtaking'...IMO it's at best simplistic/over-cautious, at worst could promote the sort of brain-out numptyism all too common on the roads these days (ill-tempered headlight-flashing at overtakes, dawdlers building frustration in other drivers, etc).
Safe? Perhaps. Responsible? How responsible is it to drive by doggedly adhering to a set of guidelines like this in the belief that it automatically makes you 'safe'? Advanced driving as we know it it - i.e. continually OBSERVING, ASSESSING actual & potential hazards and PLANNING your drive - it ain't...
Good points but even from this very balanced perspective, any advice on driving which is certainly not 'Advanced' and questionable in terms of 'Safe' or 'Responsible' is frankly useless. I fear it encourages driving like a zombie which is lethal. We need an enlightened policy of advanced driver training not restrictive and unhelpful rules.'I pledge to drive below limits, taking particular care at junctions, bends and in bad weather, avoiding overtaking, and slowing to 20mph or below around schools and homes.'
Particular care around junctions, bends, etc - fine. But 'drive below limits'; 'avoiding overtaking'...IMO it's at best simplistic/over-cautious, at worst could promote the sort of brain-out numptyism all too common on the roads these days (ill-tempered headlight-flashing at overtakes, dawdlers building frustration in other drivers, etc).
Safe? Perhaps. Responsible? How responsible is it to drive by doggedly adhering to a set of guidelines like this in the belief that it automatically makes you 'safe'? Advanced driving as we know it it - i.e. continually OBSERVING, ASSESSING actual & potential hazards and PLANNING your drive - it ain't...
Agree with that. In suggesting what they no doubt perceive as a solution for all the KSI stats (at least as far as drivers are responsible for them), it looks like they've sought an 'easy' answer that'll automatically be 'safe' for all. Indoingso they've missed the point about driving being an inherently responsible act, as this bit of advice seems to clobber any chance of promoting responsible, independent thought on behalf of the driver... Which, with hindsight, isn't that responsible at all...and could end up being counterproductive as you point out.
Easy to take potshots at this, harder to suggest a viable alternative though (and harder still to implement)... Damn, didn't want to sound too cynical!!!
Easy to take potshots at this, harder to suggest a viable alternative though (and harder still to implement)... Damn, didn't want to sound too cynical!!!
pop monkey said:
Agree with that. In suggesting what they no doubt perceive as a solution for all the KSI stats (at least as far as drivers are responsible for them), it looks like they've sought an 'easy' answer that'll automatically be 'safe' for all. Indoingso they've missed the point about driving being an inherently responsible act, as this bit of advice seems to clobber any chance of promoting responsible, independent thought on behalf of the driver... Which, with hindsight, isn't that responsible at all...and could end up being counterproductive as you point out.
Easy to take potshots at this, harder to suggest a viable alternative though (and harder still to implement)... Damn, didn't want to sound too cynical!!!
I feel this comes down to culture. We need progressive enlightened policies which benefit all. Using the lowest common denominator to set the standard is simply unacceptable. This country needs to move forward ambitiously across the board, not just in the field of driver training.Easy to take potshots at this, harder to suggest a viable alternative though (and harder still to implement)... Damn, didn't want to sound too cynical!!!
bigdog3 said:
I feel this comes down to culture. We need progressive enlightened policies which benefit all. Using the lowest common denominator to set the standard is simply unacceptable. This country needs to move forward ambitiously across the board, not just in the field of driver training.
Have you found this bit?http://www.brake.org.uk/target-zero
Vaux said:
bigdog3 said:
I feel this comes down to culture. We need progressive enlightened policies which benefit all. Using the lowest common denominator to set the standard is simply unacceptable. This country needs to move forward ambitiously across the board, not just in the field of driver training.
Have you found this bit?http://www.brake.org.uk/target-zero
•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
All very sad and in reality unnecessary because there is a better way forward.
bigdog3 said:
Yes I'm afraid so. BRAKE policies which really caught my attention were:
•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
All very sad and in reality unnecessary because there is a better way forward.
Surely nobody would take those suggestions seriously?•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
All very sad and in reality unnecessary because there is a better way forward.
They would be completely unenforceable without black boxes in our cars.
james_gt3rs said:
bigdog3 said:
Yes I'm afraid so. BRAKE policies which really caught my attention were:
•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
All very sad and in reality unnecessary because there is a better way forward.
Surely nobody would take those suggestions seriously?•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
All very sad and in reality unnecessary because there is a better way forward.
They would be completely unenforceable without black boxes in our cars.
7mike said:
Ah. I knew I'd read it somewhere. Memory like a steel sieve..............
"The only humane target for numbers of road deaths and injuries and emissions is zero."
Good luck with that one, they would have to get rid of ALL cars, and ALL roads. And even then someone would get trampled to death by an angry stampeding horse, so they would be banned as well.
What a load of pump.
Good luck with that one, they would have to get rid of ALL cars, and ALL roads. And even then someone would get trampled to death by an angry stampeding horse, so they would be banned as well.
What a load of pump.
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