RWD car in snow on non-winter tyres - advice?
Discussion
Hi,
I have a 3 series bmw which I bought recently (last couple of weeks) and despite looking for winter tyres they are, as expected, all sold out. Since I only just bought the car there was no chance for me to buy winter tyres ahead of the sell out, like I did for my other car. So I'm stuck with what's on the car at present. I expect there are other people in the same boat as me, either because they only just bought their car or they left it too late to buy winter tyres. This thread isn't about judging people who don't have winter tyres, it's about practical advice which preferably doesn't involve "stay at home then"!!
So, what advice can you offer me? I know I could get chains, or snow socks, and also take things like cat-litter and a spade in the car in case things get really tricky.
So, are chains better than socks, or vice versa? And given the car is RWD would I be better with the chains/socks on the front or rear, or both?
All constructive advice for RWD drivers on non-winter tyres is welcome.
I have a 3 series bmw which I bought recently (last couple of weeks) and despite looking for winter tyres they are, as expected, all sold out. Since I only just bought the car there was no chance for me to buy winter tyres ahead of the sell out, like I did for my other car. So I'm stuck with what's on the car at present. I expect there are other people in the same boat as me, either because they only just bought their car or they left it too late to buy winter tyres. This thread isn't about judging people who don't have winter tyres, it's about practical advice which preferably doesn't involve "stay at home then"!!
So, what advice can you offer me? I know I could get chains, or snow socks, and also take things like cat-litter and a spade in the car in case things get really tricky.
So, are chains better than socks, or vice versa? And given the car is RWD would I be better with the chains/socks on the front or rear, or both?
All constructive advice for RWD drivers on non-winter tyres is welcome.
mrmr96 said:
Hi,
I have a 3 series bmw which I bought recently (last couple of weeks) and despite looking for winter tyres they are, as expected, all sold out. Since I only just bought the car there was no chance for me to buy winter tyres ahead of the sell out, like I did for my other car. So I'm stuck with what's on the car at present. I expect there are other people in the same boat as me, either because they only just bought their car or they left it too late to buy winter tyres. This thread isn't about judging people who don't have winter tyres, it's about practical advice which preferably doesn't involve "stay at home then"!!
So, what advice can you offer me? I know I could get chains, or snow socks, and also take things like cat-litter and a spade in the car in case things get really tricky.
So, are chains better than socks, or vice versa? And given the car is RWD would I be better with the chains/socks on the front or rear, or both?
All constructive advice for RWD drivers on non-winter tyres is welcome.
Well, many iterations and, therein, versions of the 3 series, so, which do you have?I have a 3 series bmw which I bought recently (last couple of weeks) and despite looking for winter tyres they are, as expected, all sold out. Since I only just bought the car there was no chance for me to buy winter tyres ahead of the sell out, like I did for my other car. So I'm stuck with what's on the car at present. I expect there are other people in the same boat as me, either because they only just bought their car or they left it too late to buy winter tyres. This thread isn't about judging people who don't have winter tyres, it's about practical advice which preferably doesn't involve "stay at home then"!!
So, what advice can you offer me? I know I could get chains, or snow socks, and also take things like cat-litter and a spade in the car in case things get really tricky.
So, are chains better than socks, or vice versa? And given the car is RWD would I be better with the chains/socks on the front or rear, or both?
All constructive advice for RWD drivers on non-winter tyres is welcome.
Then too, where are you and where do you want to go?
In a flat area just going shopping, probably no problem.
The highlands up North, wanting to do 200 miles a day, needs preparation.
Cost benefit analysis is your guide.
I have never driven with socks; however from what I have read they are a bit easier to put on than chains and work pretty much as well, but do not last as long. Like chains they do have to be taken off as soon as you get to a cleared road, and you can only drive on them very slowly.
Quite clearly if you need them you have to put them on the back wheels - otherwise you may not be able to get up slippery slopes. You might consider putting them on the front wheels too to improve steering control, but I think that would be unnecessary at the very slow speeds you would be using on chains.
To keep moving before you need to put on the chains, you will probably get a worthwhile improvement from putting some weight in the boot (eg bags of sand from a builders' merchant).
As to driving techniques, be smooth and slow, remember that the most dangerous situation is going downhill, look for the part of the road which may have the most grip, and test grip regularly by using the brakes.
Quite clearly if you need them you have to put them on the back wheels - otherwise you may not be able to get up slippery slopes. You might consider putting them on the front wheels too to improve steering control, but I think that would be unnecessary at the very slow speeds you would be using on chains.
To keep moving before you need to put on the chains, you will probably get a worthwhile improvement from putting some weight in the boot (eg bags of sand from a builders' merchant).
As to driving techniques, be smooth and slow, remember that the most dangerous situation is going downhill, look for the part of the road which may have the most grip, and test grip regularly by using the brakes.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'd kept the OP pretty general so it might be more relevant to more people, but if you're offering to help with my circumstances then I will accept!
It's a 2003 BMW 330D Sport with Pirelli P Zero tyres. I need to drive about 250 miles on motorways and A roads a couple of times a week, plus commuting to the office which is also mostly motorway.
It's a 2003 BMW 330D Sport with Pirelli P Zero tyres. I need to drive about 250 miles on motorways and A roads a couple of times a week, plus commuting to the office which is also mostly motorway.
mrmr96 said:
Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'd kept the OP pretty general so it might be more relevant to more people, but if you're offering to help with my circumstances then I will accept!
It's a 2003 BMW 330D Sport with Pirelli P Zero tyres. I need to drive about 250 miles on motorways and A roads a couple of times a week, plus commuting to the office which is also mostly motorway.
So, plenty of miles.It's a 2003 BMW 330D Sport with Pirelli P Zero tyres. I need to drive about 250 miles on motorways and A roads a couple of times a week, plus commuting to the office which is also mostly motorway.
Keep trying to get some winter tyres, have socks, chains and shovel in case, not a great cost in the scheme of things for you, plus the usual, keep tank topped up, fully charged mobile, bit to drink and eat, warm clothes in car and as Mark above suggests, weight in the boot.
Motorways and A roads are priority for being kept clear but we know how that doesn't always work.
Never be afraid to be the slowest in adverse conditions and maintain a zone of safety around you, or, if conditions get really bad to pull off somewhere safe and legal and wait for conditions to improve.
My experience of snow socks is that they work very well as an emergency measure to get you home in snow but are limited to 30mph and will soon wear out if used on roads from which the snow has been cleared.
The main drawback for me was that they were very tight to fit and remove, causing much cursing and fozen hands. However, that seems to be because my tyres were at the top end of the size range for which those particular socks were designed. I passed them on to my son; his car has wheels that are 1" smaller diameter and he's found them very easy to fit and just as effective in last week's snow. So if I buy another set I'll try to find a larger size that are less of a stretch to fit over my tyres.
The main drawback for me was that they were very tight to fit and remove, causing much cursing and fozen hands. However, that seems to be because my tyres were at the top end of the size range for which those particular socks were designed. I passed them on to my son; his car has wheels that are 1" smaller diameter and he's found them very easy to fit and just as effective in last week's snow. So if I buy another set I'll try to find a larger size that are less of a stretch to fit over my tyres.
If conditions get bad again, really consider if you need to make the journey at all, or if you can use alternative transport to complete it.
Allow yourself more time to complete the journey.
Drive smoothly, in a controlled fashion. Keep in higher gears. Anticipate more, and be mindful that stopping distance can be X2 in the wet up to X10 on slush up to "You're never going to stop!" on ice.
Be "ready" with the opposite lock for those moments when you need it (rare in a BMW compared to for example a 200SX) but prevention is better than cure. Throttle discipline is key.
If you can find a wide open space to have a safe play in, I think it's a good idea as it teaches you the low speed handling traits in low friction conditions.
Allow yourself more time to complete the journey.
Drive smoothly, in a controlled fashion. Keep in higher gears. Anticipate more, and be mindful that stopping distance can be X2 in the wet up to X10 on slush up to "You're never going to stop!" on ice.
Be "ready" with the opposite lock for those moments when you need it (rare in a BMW compared to for example a 200SX) but prevention is better than cure. Throttle discipline is key.
If you can find a wide open space to have a safe play in, I think it's a good idea as it teaches you the low speed handling traits in low friction conditions.
Look online for the tyres and you'll find plenty of stock. I'm in the same position as the OP, having just bought a new car (BMW 320d), so needing winter tyres now. I got some wheels on E-Bay yesterday, and also ordered some Dunlop Winter Sport 3D tyres, having had a choice of any winter tyre I wanted and seen that those topped most of the reviews I'd read. Most tyre fitters will fit the tyres for you if you mail order them seperately.
As for driving advice on summer tyres in the snow, one thing that I have noticed recently is lots of people digging their own holes by just accelerating more when their car doesn't move, so one thing I would say is to just tickle the throttle gently. I helped someone at the weekend who was stuck in the snow, but despite my pushing and shoving, their car just spun its wheels. In the end, they looked at my weedy frame and suggested that I drove whilst they pushed, so I hopped in and just drove out of the rut straight away, and I have very little experience or training in winter or off road driving, all I did was tread gently on the throttle and avoid wheelspin.
My 320d has actually been ok in the snow so far (narrower tyres than the OP's BMW I guess?), but like the OP I felt that winter tyres were a prudent purchase, not necessarily just for traction, but also for braking and cornering safety.
As for driving advice on summer tyres in the snow, one thing that I have noticed recently is lots of people digging their own holes by just accelerating more when their car doesn't move, so one thing I would say is to just tickle the throttle gently. I helped someone at the weekend who was stuck in the snow, but despite my pushing and shoving, their car just spun its wheels. In the end, they looked at my weedy frame and suggested that I drove whilst they pushed, so I hopped in and just drove out of the rut straight away, and I have very little experience or training in winter or off road driving, all I did was tread gently on the throttle and avoid wheelspin.
My 320d has actually been ok in the snow so far (narrower tyres than the OP's BMW I guess?), but like the OP I felt that winter tyres were a prudent purchase, not necessarily just for traction, but also for braking and cornering safety.
Plenty of snow up here and the M3 on standard rubber has been better then by previous z4 once it has got going. Avoid reverse if you can, pull away in second with traction control off if the wheels are spinning up and loosing you momentum. Carry some carpet or similar to put under the wheels and a shovel.
mrmr96 said:
Hi Rob, who are you using for tyre supply?
My car has 18's (not sure on width or profile, I'll look later) but in all the possible combo's of 18" tyres Camskill only have a single set of winter tyres, but at £220/tyre the total of ~£900 on rubber is a stretch too far for me.
I just went to a price comparison website and went for the company that offered the tyre I wanted for the best price, which was http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/. I can't recommend them as such, as I don't have my tyres yet (ordered yesterday), but the website was clear and easy to use and the registration and order process well laid out.My car has 18's (not sure on width or profile, I'll look later) but in all the possible combo's of 18" tyres Camskill only have a single set of winter tyres, but at £220/tyre the total of ~£900 on rubber is a stretch too far for me.
Remember that the only extra cost in the long run that one incurs fitting winter tyres is a second set of wheels. You'd be wearing out your tyres anyway, so which set you wear out is inconsequential.
Incidentally, the wheels were my initial stumbling block - BMW wanted nearly £1000 for my humble 16x7J BMW "156" wheels, and the cheapest source I could find for new wheels was £840 for four! Secondhand on E-Bay good ones go for around £200, and a complete refurb from a superb local company that I have used is just £65 per wheel, so that's the route I went down.
Update: I can't recommend Pneus Online at all. They said they had stock of the winter tyre I wanted yesterday, so I ordered some. I then got hold of a set of wheels, and paid for both of them. The wheels are on their way, but I just had an e-mail from Pneus saying that the tyres aren't in stock and they're refunding me. So I now have a set of wheels and no tyres to put on them 
The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!
The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!RobM77 said:
Update: I can't recommend Pneus Online at all. They said they had stock of the winter tyre I wanted yesterday, so I ordered some. I then got hold of a set of wheels, and paid for both of them. The wheels are on their way, but I just had an e-mail from Pneus saying that the tyres aren't in stock and they're refunding me. So I now have a set of wheels and no tyres to put on them The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!
Shame, both for you and because I was going to follow your lead if you'd found a stockist with stock! The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!Yeah, I was able to buy for my other car before the sell out, but with this new car it's looking like I'm going to be out of luck on the winter tyres. I'll heed the advice of posters above and take it easy, and pack things like shovel etc in the car. I'll also check the tyre sizes and see if I can get socks, but I would imagine (again) that there's now LOADS of people who can't get winter tyres so their next best bet is getting socks, so I expect them to sell out soon if not already.
RobM77 said:
Update: I can't recommend Pneus Online at all. They said they had stock of the winter tyre I wanted yesterday, so I ordered some. I then got hold of a set of wheels, and paid for both of them. The wheels are on their way, but I just had an e-mail from Pneus saying that the tyres aren't in stock and they're refunding me. So I now have a set of wheels and no tyres to put on them The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!
How lucky that I could not get through to Pneus online! I ordered by telephone from eTyres what they said was the last set in my size. Incidentally, I decided against a set of wheels - eTyres promised that the spring tyre swap carried out at my place would only cost £20. It would take a lot of tyre swaps to make it worth getting a set of wheels. The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!waremark said:
RobM77 said:
Update: I can't recommend Pneus Online at all. They said they had stock of the winter tyre I wanted yesterday, so I ordered some. I then got hold of a set of wheels, and paid for both of them. The wheels are on their way, but I just had an e-mail from Pneus saying that the tyres aren't in stock and they're refunding me. So I now have a set of wheels and no tyres to put on them The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!
How lucky that I could not get through to Pneus online! I ordered by telephone from eTyres what they said was the last set in my size. Incidentally, I decided against a set of wheels - eTyres promised that the spring tyre swap carried out at my place would only cost £20. It would take a lot of tyre swaps to make it worth getting a set of wheels. The OP must be right, because I've just tried all the other online retailers and they're all out of stock too. So evidently the lesson learnt here is that if you want winter tyres for each car you own, don't buy a new car in the winter time!I've had no problems in my 330d on summer tyres (Goodyear Eagle F1), as said above just go slowly with any control inputs. I've a few paving slabs and a couple bags of sand in the boot, plus a shovel to spread some sand down if I get stuck. Keep the tank near full as it helps with a bit more weight over the back.
Regarding the traction control I find it better to switch it off, it tends to kick in just when you need to keep the momentum going. I haven't came to any hills I couldn't get up yet although it's advisable to wait for a clear road on steep sections, otherwise you may get stuck behind a t
t in a clio when they decide the rev limiter is the best way to negotiate the incline.
Regarding the traction control I find it better to switch it off, it tends to kick in just when you need to keep the momentum going. I haven't came to any hills I couldn't get up yet although it's advisable to wait for a clear road on steep sections, otherwise you may get stuck behind a t
t in a clio when they decide the rev limiter is the best way to negotiate the incline.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff